Why has GWS done much better than Gold Coast?

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marcus1232 said:
GWS were also a year later.
Had the ability to look at the mistakes GC made and adjust accordingly.
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Looking back, the Gold Coast didn't seem to be doing too badly in their early years. While they finished last in 2011 at 3-19 and second last in 2012 again with 3-19, this was a very young side being established. It was always going to be tough in the early going. In 2013 the Suns improved to be 8-14 with many competitive losses and Ablett won a Brownlow, and the Gold Coast looked to be making the finals in 2014, before crippling injuries caused them to miss out but at 10-12 it was nearly break even.

But when the GC sacked foundation coach Guy McKenna at the end of 2014, things ran off the rails and nothing has gone right nearly a decade on. Had the Suns stuck with McKenna who seemed to be doing a good job building his team, I'm pretty sure the Suns would have been able to make the finals around 2015, 2016 or 2017. I doubt they would have won a premiership, but I also believe they wouldn't be playing their 14th season with no finals.
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
175px-Gary_Ablett_2017.2.jpg
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What did GWS do instead of going the marquee option?

That's part of the answer right there.

The other part is that the GC is a holiday resort in paradise.
 
Cyber_punk said:
It's a bit of a graveyard for all sports franchises that have tried to go there, no?

Reckon that pampered party/paradise/LA type lifestyle is probably detrimental to building a hard nosed gritty/resilent culture like they have done in Western Sydney.
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Yep. 100%.
 

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ferball said:
What did GWS do instead of going the marquee option?

That's part of the answer right there.

The other part is that the GC is a holiday resort in paradise.
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Created a club culture instead of a ME first one....

Out of all the recruits taken, Phil Davis and Callan Ward were leaps and bounds above anyone else because they created the professionalism from day one that we see today
 
GoEaglesGoSGIO said:
Created a club culture instead of a ME first one....

Out of all the recruits taken, Phil Davis and Callan Ward were leaps and bounds above anyone else because they created the professionalism from day one that we see today
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Yep. That's exactly what I was referring to a few comments back.
 
Leadership. Whether by design or by luck, GWS had strong leaders around at the formation of the club while GC didn’t.

A lot of GWS’s mature recruits were finished as players, but were there as leaders to guide a list full of teenagers who know nothing about the AFL and success.

Who did Gold Coast have? Ablett? Campbell Brown? They actually had anti-leaders. The rot set in there and is still to be fixed.
 
GWS were set up way better. It's not even close. It covers coaches, admins, concessions, facilities, recruitment of experienced players.

As for this year, Hardwick is assessing players, imbedding a new plan and went with young talent on purpose. Most rounds Suns have the youngest line-up or are the youngest top 1-3.

IMO, Hardwick also made some questionable calls on players roles, game strategies.

Mostly mental issues on road. Inability to convert, not taking opportunities cost them regularly.

Suns struggle to execute under pressure.

Let's see next year.
 

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A very easy but often overlooked comparison is the quality of the drafts the clubs came into. 2011 is one of the best drafts of all time, and the Giants acquired significantly better players that either played long careers with GWS, or were able to secure the club better trade returns when they left.

Gold Coast 2010
Underage signings: Maverick Weller, Jack Hutchins, Hayden Jolly, Luke Russell, Piers Flanagan, Trent McKenzie, Josh Toy, Tom Nicholls, Brandon Matera, Taylor Hine, Matt Shaw
QLD zone signings: Marc Lock, Zac Smith, Alik Magin, Jack Stanlake, Rory Thompson, Joseph Daye, Charlie Dixon, Jack Stanley, Lewis Moss, Rex Liddy, Joel Wilkinson, Tom Hickey
NT zone signings: Steven May, Liam Patrick
Drafted: David Swallow, Harley Bennell, Sam Day, Josh Caddy, Dion Prestia, Dan Gorringe, Tom Lynch, Seb Tape, Jeremy Taylor, Jacob Gilbee, Michael Coad, Roland Ah Chee, Jake Crawford

Underage signings and zone signings were eligible to be traded straight away. The Suns that were traded before properly joining the club were Peter Faulks, Andrew Krakouer, Jon Ceglar, Rohan Bewick, Cam Richardson, Simon Phillips and Tendai Mzungu.

GWS 2011
Underage signings: Dylan Shiel, Sam Darley, Tomas Bugg, Tim Golds, Nathan Wilson, Adam Treloar, Jeremy Cameron, Gerard Ugle, Jack Hombsch, Josh Growden, Adam Kennedy
NT zone: Curtly Hampton, Shaun Edwards
NSW zone: Jacob Townsend, Mark Whiley, Kurt Aylett, Sam Schulz, Josh Bruce, Anthony Miles, Tim Segrave
Drafted: Jon Patton, Stephen Coniglio, Dom Tyson, Will Hoskin-Eliott, Matt Buntine, Nick Haynes, Adam Tomlinson, Liam Sumner, Toby Greene, Taylor Adams, Devon Smith, Tom Downie, Jonathan Giles, Steve Clifton, Sam Frost, Rhys Cooyou, Andrew Phillips, Tim Mohr

The Giants traded Steven Morris, Martin Clarke, Jamie Elliott, Terry Milera, Ahmed Saad, Luke Brown and Jarrod Boumann before they properly joined the club.

The biggest most notable difference was the quality in underage signings. Shiel, Treloar and Cameron were all great players for GWS and netted them 7 first round picks between them in the future. I believe the only underage signing that managed to get traded by Gold Coast was Matera. Even the unremarkable Adam Kennedy probably played out a better career than any of those underage Suns.

The 2010 draft was pretty strong in hindsight, but had a lot of successful late picks. The first round where the Suns had most of their picks, was quite rubbish. To have plucked, Swallow, Lynch, Prestia and Caddy was probably a big success given how many busts went in the top 20.
 
adammania9 said:
A very easy but often overlooked comparison is the quality of the drafts the clubs came into. 2011 is one of the best drafts of all time, and the Giants acquired significantly better players that either played long careers with GWS, or were able to secure the club better trade returns when they left.

Gold Coast 2010
Underage signings: Maverick Weller, Jack Hutchins, Hayden Jolly, Luke Russell, Piers Flanagan, Trent McKenzie, Josh Toy, Tom Nicholls, Brandon Matera, Taylor Hine, Matt Shaw
QLD zone signings: Marc Lock, Zac Smith, Alik Magin, Jack Stanlake, Rory Thompson, Joseph Daye, Charlie Dixon, Jack Stanley, Lewis Moss, Rex Liddy, Joel Wilkinson, Tom Hickey
NT zone signings: Steven May, Liam Patrick
Drafted: David Swallow, Harley Bennell, Sam Day, Josh Caddy, Dion Prestia, Dan Gorringe, Tom Lynch, Seb Tape, Jeremy Taylor, Jacob Gilbee, Michael Coad, Roland Ah Chee, Jake Crawford

Underage signings and zone signings were eligible to be traded straight away. The Suns that were traded before properly joining the club were Peter Faulks, Andrew Krakouer, Jon Ceglar, Rohan Bewick, Cam Richardson, Simon Phillips and Tendai Mzungu.

GWS 2011
Underage signings: Dylan Shiel, Sam Darley, Tomas Bugg, Tim Golds, Nathan Wilson, Adam Treloar, Jeremy Cameron, Gerard Ugle, Jack Hombsch, Josh Growden, Adam Kennedy
NT zone: Curtly Hampton, Shaun Edwards
NSW zone: Jacob Townsend, Mark Whiley, Kurt Aylett, Sam Schulz, Josh Bruce, Anthony Miles, Tim Segrave
Drafted: Jon Patton, Stephen Coniglio, Dom Tyson, Will Hoskin-Eliott, Matt Buntine, Nick Haynes, Adam Tomlinson, Liam Sumner, Toby Greene, Taylor Adams, Devon Smith, Tom Downie, Jonathan Giles, Steve Clifton, Sam Frost, Rhys Cooyou, Andrew Phillips, Tim Mohr

The biggest most notable difference was the quality in underage signings. Shiel, Treloar and Cameron were all great players for GWS and netted them 7 first round picks between them in the future. I believe the only underage signing that managed to get traded by Gold Coast was Matera. Even the unremarkable Adam Kennedy probably played out a better career than any of those underage Suns.

The 2010 draft was pretty strong in hindsight, but had a lot of successful late picks. The first round where the Suns had most of their picks, was quite rubbish. To have plucked, Swallow, Lynch, Prestia and Caddy was probably a big success given how many busts went in the top 20.
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Wow that GC list is stinky
 
Gordon Farkas said:
Paradise?!?

Or just a sunny place for shady people..
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Yeah, good point.

In men's sport at a national level the GC has never produced a championship team. They even invented a race for a movie and couldn't find a local to win it.
 
The biggest difference has been seen in the selecting and development of players.

GWS have had an abundance of good to great players that they haven’t been able to keep them all but have gotten an excellent return on them.

The suns can’t even get a good best 22 together and when they do lose players they lose them for nothing alongside them trading draft picks for cents on the dollar.

With the advantages the suns have had it’s a minor miracle they still haven’t played finals.
 
Scott Clayton in general, but Gold Coast's decision to chase those mini-draft selections just fed GWS list build. In a way that made no sense for Gold Coast to do.
 
Bit off topic. The Gold Coast Kangaroos would have worked so much better than the Suns on the Gold Coast. To start from scratch in a place like the Gold Coast where almost every team in every code has failed was a big ask. AFL made a mistake by going to the Gold Coast. I think relocating the Kangaroos would have been much better.
The GWS just has more of a club vibe, they went with a veteran coach in Sheedy to set them off on the right track and they recruited a bit better.
 
Both are still hopeless with the leg-ups they have received. Unbelievable neither have a flag. Look at all the other expansion teams (with the exception of Freo) that got AFL support.

So if this thread was why have both failed so miserably …probably the coaches and the poor building of culture. Yes it’s worse at the Suns but the Giants should have 2 or 3 flags by now

And please don’t say something inane like “it’s hard getting a flag”. No shit. It’s also hard getting a ridiculously awesome list and a shitlaod of great picks …for some
 

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Why has GWS done much better than Gold Coast?

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