Why has GWS done much better than Gold Coast?

[adammania9]

Both are still hopeless with the leg-ups they have received. Unbelievable neither have a flag. Look at all the other expansion teams (with the exception of Freo) that got AFL support.

So if this thread was why have both failed so miserably …probably the coaches and the poor building of culture. Yes it’s worse at the Suns but the Giants should have 2 or 3 flags by now

And please don’t say something inane like “it’s hard getting a flag”. No shit. It’s also hard getting a ridiculously awesome list and a shitlaod of great picks …for some

Should be worth noting that despite all the concessions GC in particular received to start up, their two best players right now were both results of further AFL handouts due to their poor management .

Sam Collins is a 2x B&F winner and was picked up in 2018 when GC and Carlton were allowed to list some state league players outside of the draft.

Noah Anderson was taken in 2019 from a priority pick due to their poor on field performance

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Should be worth noting that despite all the concessions GC in particular received to start up, their two best players right now were both results of further AFL handouts due to their poor management .

Sam Collins is a 2x B&F winner and was picked up in 2018 when GC and Carlton were allowed to list some state league players outside of the draft.

Noah Anderson was taken in 2019 from a priority pick due to their poor on field performance

Ben King? Touk Miller? Jarrod Witts?

 

[adammania9]

Ben King? Touk Miller? Jarrod Witts?

Touk maybe. Other two no

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Touk maybe. Other two no

Matt Rowell? Sam Flanders?

 

[adammania9]

Matt Rowell? Sam Flanders?

Not as close to being elite in their positions as the aforementioned two, who are the last two B&F winners and constantly finishing up there

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Not as close to being elite in their positions as the aforementioned two, who are the last two B&F winners and constantly finishing up there

Fair enough. Well, I'd say Collins at least could have been selected by any other club when Freo delisted him. I think giving first crack at a state league player is an appropriate level of help for a struggling club. Pick 2 not so much, but it seemed to be a one-off given to Gold Coast as an admission by the AFL that they screwed up the initial conditions. I doubt it'll be repeated outside of first year clubs.

 

[Freomaniac]

Not bitter at all eh?

I dont think so, the Cats won a flag the next season in 2011

 

[Freomaniac]

A very easy but often overlooked comparison is the quality of the drafts the clubs came into. 2011 is one of the best drafts of all time, and the Giants acquired significantly better players that either played long careers with GWS, or were able to secure the club better trade returns when they left.

Gold Coast 2010
Underage signings: Maverick Weller, Jack Hutchins, Hayden Jolly, Luke Russell, Piers Flanagan, Trent McKenzie, Josh Toy, Tom Nicholls, Brandon Matera, Taylor Hine, Matt Shaw
QLD zone signings: Marc Lock, Zac Smith, Alik Magin, Jack Stanlake, Rory Thompson, Joseph Daye, Charlie Dixon, Jack Stanley, Lewis Moss, Rex Liddy, Joel Wilkinson, Tom Hickey
NT zone signings: Steven May, Liam Patrick
Drafted: David Swallow, Harley Bennell, Sam Day, Josh Caddy, Dion Prestia, Dan Gorringe, Tom Lynch, Seb Tape, Jeremy Taylor, Jacob Gilbee, Michael Coad, Roland Ah Chee, Jake Crawford

Underage signings and zone signings were eligible to be traded straight away. The Suns that were traded before properly joining the club were Peter Faulks, Andrew Krakouer, Jon Ceglar, Rohan Bewick, Cam Richardson, Simon Phillips and Tendai Mzungu.

GWS 2011
Underage signings: Dylan Shiel, Sam Darley, Tomas Bugg, Tim Golds, Nathan Wilson, Adam Treloar, Jeremy Cameron, Gerard Ugle, Jack Hombsch, Josh Growden, Adam Kennedy
NT zone: Curtly Hampton, Shaun Edwards
NSW zone: Jacob Townsend, Mark Whiley, Kurt Aylett, Sam Schulz, Josh Bruce, Anthony Miles, Tim Segrave
Drafted: Jon Patton, Stephen Coniglio, Dom Tyson, Will Hoskin-Eliott, Matt Buntine, Nick Haynes, Adam Tomlinson, Liam Sumner, Toby Greene, Taylor Adams, Devon Smith, Tom Downie, Jonathan Giles, Steve Clifton, Sam Frost, Rhys Cooyou, Andrew Phillips, Tim Mohr

The Giants traded Steven Morris, Martin Clarke, Jamie Elliott, Terry Milera, Ahmed Saad, Luke Brown and Jarrod Boumann before they properly joined the club.

The biggest most notable difference was the quality in underage signings. Shiel, Treloar and Cameron were all great players for GWS and netted them 7 first round picks between them in the future. I believe the only underage signing that managed to get traded by Gold Coast was Matera. Even the unremarkable Adam Kennedy probably played out a better career than any of those underage Suns.

The 2010 draft was pretty strong in hindsight, but had a lot of successful late picks. The first round where the Suns had most of their picks, was quite rubbish. To have plucked, Swallow, Lynch, Prestia and Caddy was probably a big success given how many busts went in the top 20.

Interesting list of Players from both clubs.

Gold coast local zone signings was better than GWS local zone signings.


But when it came to the underage Signings, GWS 10 underage signings are way better than the Gold coast 10 underage signings.


Gold Coast had 9 picks in the 1st round and stuffed up half of those picks in the 2010 draft. I agree 2010 draft was a pretty strong draft. A lot of solid kids were taken after pick 20.

GWS had 18 picks in that 2011 draft and did better. even getting some solid players with those late picks.

 

[Colonial]

I dont think so, the Cats won a flag the next season in 2011

Seems they can’t let it go though.

 

[iameviljez]

Both are still hopeless with the leg-ups they have received. Unbelievable neither have a flag. Look at all the other expansion teams (with the exception of Freo) that got AFL support.

GWS have done exceptionally well to stay competitive with the amount of talent drain they have suffered.

 

[Cleric]

Why the GC isn't sport franchise friendly I don't know.
There is a ton of expats from Vic and SA living on the GC, and it has a pretty decent population base over just under 700k.

It should be a good place to have a team, and it should attract players for the lifestyle, and the shear amount of woman walking around in thongs regardless of where they are.

GWS on the other hand would be a terrible place to live and train.
There's no attraction to that area, and it's a pretty staunch Rugby league area due to the Islander and Lebonese population base put there.

The other issue for GWS is that even their academy players don't want to stay there.
Look how many have decided to move away from them.
I think the GC, Sydney and Brisbane academy players are far more likely to stay at that club.

 

[iameviljez]

GWS got it right from the start when they nailed their veteran player picks. They prioritised leadership and culture over talent. Compare the pair...

Gary Ablett Jr	Callan Ward
Nathan Bock	Phil Davis
Michael Rischitelli	Tom Scully
Nathan Krakouer	Rhys Palmer
Campbell Brown	Dean Brogan
Jarrod Harbrow	Chad Cornes
Jared Brennan (!!)	Luke Power
Josh Fraser	James McDonald

There's just so much more leadership and application on the right-hand side of that table

 

[Colonial]

GWS on the other hand would be a terrible place to live and train.
There's no attraction to that area, and it's a pretty staunch Rugby league area due to the Islander and Lebonese population base put there.

You have no clue about Western Sydney it seems.

The other issue for GWS is that even their academy players don't want to stay there.
Look how many have decided to move away from them.
I think the GC, Sydney and Brisbane academy players are far more likely to stay at that club.

Crows literally threw a 6 year massive money deal to a bit player who had a good last few games.
Would of loved for Peatling to stay but not the dollar value Adelaide paid to get him there.

 

[iameviljez]

Why the GC isn't sport franchise friendly I don't know.
There is a ton of expats from Vic and SA living on the GC, and it has a pretty decent population base over just under 700k.

It should be a good place to have a team, and it should attract players for the lifestyle, and the shear amount of woman walking around in thongs regardless of where they are.

GWS on the other hand would be a terrible place to live and train.
There's no attraction to that area, and it's a pretty staunch Rugby league area due to the Islander and Lebonese population base put there.

I really disagree with this.

GWS trains at the Sydney Olympic Park, and it's all of 18km on the road to the Harbour Bridge, about 10km as the crow flies. It's close to the heart of the city; it's not exactly Rooty Hill or Penrith.

The Gold Coast, on the other hand, is a weird, weird place. By car, traffic depending, it's an hour and change from Brisbane - but it's weirdly plastic, and there's not much beneath the shiny surface. I've never been anywhere quite like it.

 

[Cleric]

You have no clue about Western Sydney it seems.

Crows literally threw a 6 year massive money deal to a bit player who had a good last few games.
Would of loved for Peatling to stay but not the dollar value Adelaide paid to get him there.

What in the Mount Drewett are you talking about? We all know what Western Sydney is about.

Not every player will leave their clubs just for a bigger contract. Players that really like the club where they are at, won't even bother talking to other clubs, they will just quietly negotiate a new contract, sign it, and continue playing.
There are plenty of players playing for the club they love for less money or years than they could have had elsewhere.

For instance, both Darcy Fogherty and Riley Thillthorpe re-signed before they were due to come out of contract, didn't get their managers to get offers from other clubs, they wanted to stay, got a deal they were happy with, and re-signed.
There is players just like this at all clubs.

Why haven't Isaac Henney, Errol Gulden, Callum Mills, Braeden Campbell, Nick Blakey etc left Sydney for more money?

 

[Cleric]

I really disagree with this.

GWS trains at the Sydney Olympic Park, and it's all of 18km on the road to the Harbour Bridge, about 10km as the crow flies. It's close to the heart of the city; it's not exactly Rooty Hill or Penrith.

The Gold Coast, on the other hand, is a weird, weird place. By car, traffic depending, it's an hour and change from Brisbane - but it's weirdly plastic, and there's not much beneath the shiny surface. I've never been anywhere quite like it.

Gold Coast isn't for everyone, but for a young guy earning good money playing football, it has its perks.
Great weather, hot chick's, good fishing and surfing, and great night-life. That's not going to have young blokes running from it.

GWS has issues keeping its academy players at this point.

 

[iameviljez]

Why haven't Isaac Henney, Errol Gulden, Callum Mills, Braeden Campbell, Nick Blakey etc left Sydney for more money?

Because Sydney has a lot of tradition, big crowds, and doesn't have a stupid name and generic mascot.

 

[Colonial]

What in the Mount Drewett are you talking about? We all know what Western Sydney is about.

Not every player will leave their clubs just for a bigger contract. Players that really like the club where they are at, won't even bother talking to other clubs, they will just quietly negotiate a new contract, sign it, and continue playing.
There are plenty of players playing for the club they love for less money or years than they could have had elsewhere.

For instance, both Darcy Fogherty and Riley Thillthorpe re-signed before they were due to come out of contract, didn't get their managers to get offers from other clubs, they wanted to stay, got a deal they were happy with, and re-signed.
There is players just like this at all clubs.

Why haven't Isaac Henney, Errol Gulden, Callum Mills, Braeden Campbell, Nick Blakey etc left Sydney for more money?

Wow you are really clueless.

 

[Colonial]

Because Sydney has a lot of tradition, big crowds, and doesn't have a stupid name and generic mascot.

You follow a team called a cat. You calling the Giants generic?

 

[Cleric]

Wow you are really clueless.

Well that's going to turn around GWSs situation. Just keep that head in the sand, and don't worry, because the AFL, at the expense of the other clubs, will continue to bankroll you regardless.

 

[Colonial]

Well that's going to turn around GWSs situation. Just keep that head in the sand, and don't worry, because the AFL, at the expense of the other clubs, will continue to bankroll you regardless.

Oh no doubt there are issues at the club.
But taking advise and info from the likes of you won’t be it.
Keep thinking the club and players live in Blacktown.
I’m sure you think the Peatling mega deal was good business. I look forward to you working out he can’t kick worth a damn. Tackling A1 though.

 

[iameviljez]

You follow a team called a cat. You calling the Giants generic?

Yes, because at least there's a story behind why we adopted the cat, and it's been that way for a century now. Eagles, Dockers, Suns - all makes local sense.

Giants, on the other hand...

 

[iameviljez]

Gold Coast isn't for everyone, but for a young guy earning good money playing football, it has its perks.
Great weather, hot chick's, good fishing and surfing, and great night-life. That's not going to have young blokes running from it.

You forgot the drugs...

It does have its perks, but the footy club has not really leaned into its strengths, to be honest. Geelong has managed to make being off-Broadway a bit of a perk. Gold Coast needs to lean a bit harder into the anonymity, the sun and surf IMO.

 

[Cleric]

Oh no doubt there are issues at the club.
But taking advise and info from the likes of you won’t be it.
Keep thinking the club and players live in Blacktown.
I’m sure you think the Peatling mega deal was good business. I look forward to you working out he can’t kick worth a damn. Tackling A1 though.

I'm not bothered about the contract. They don't mean much.

 

[Freomaniac]

Seems they can’t let it go though.

Mate had Toby Greene or Jeremy Cameron left as a free agent in 2020 or 2021 and GWS won a flag the next season, you wouldn't complain.

Hell if Nathan Fyfe and Michael Walters both left as free agents in 2017 and Dockers won a flag the next season, I wouldn't complain either.

I am not going to both talking about GWS concessions. Its been done to death.

I didnt care if GWS had one 1st round pick or 10 in the 1st 20 picks. GWS were always gonna get a good batch of 18- to 20-year-olds. So Did Gold coast in the previous season.

those 18- to 20-year-olds in year 1 were going to be 24- to 26-year-olds 6 years later.

No different to West coast eagles starting out in 1987. It was just Ironic that the VFL clubs stole most of the prime WAFL talent which forced west coast to choose a lot of 18- to 20-year-olds in 1987.

After 4 full seasons, eagles made a prelim and won a final in 1990.

After a full 5 seasons, they made a grand final in 1991.

After a full 6 seasons, they got a flag in 1992.