Why hasnt there been more pressure on st kilda over the years?

BC9_

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Wow illuminating input, must be great being an entitled dogflogger...
Okay my quipped remark, point taken.

In truth, though, and expanding on what I’ve said in a jovial way, if you had a history of success, or at least an era in your history that points to success, that’d create a benchmark/expectation from fans to repeat that again and, in addition to that, cheeky prodding from oppo fans and the media (call it external ‘hype’) to reach those heights again.

Absent all of that, there’s pressure on St Kilda to do what, exactly?
 

Atomboy

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...and here is the end of the argument. If these "smaller Vic clubs" are unable to fill the majority of docklands regularly, they have no place in a national competition.

Time they merge, relocate or make way for clubs in genuine markets.

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Of course the flip side being that the clubs would make far more money playing at their own grounds with smaller crowds than getting raped by Marvel Stadium. Has improved in the last couple of years but has been a joke for over a decade.
 

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Cooksen

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The spanner in the works is Nick "I see it but I don't believe it" Davis. St Kilda really should've won a home prelim against 6th placed Geelong compared to a finals hardened Sydney.

Anyway, the Saints massively underachieved in the 2000s. Below is the team that Sydney beat in the 2005 prelim (rough positions) with bolded to highlight those who won AA honours in the 2000s. In 2007 they added Sean Dempster and they already had Sam Fisher on the list. So that's 11 AAs in the 2000s plus Dempster in 2012.

B: Jones Maguire Blake
HB: Goddard Hudghton Gwilt
C: Montagna Hayes Dal Santo
HF: Guerra Riewoldt B Voss
F: Fiora Gehrig Milne
Foll: Ackland Harvey Ball

IC: Baker R Clarke Powell Thompson
My club did underachieve in the 2000s (or at least from 2004 to 2010)

2009 being the big miss of that era, But it just did not happen and lead to this current decade of crapness and blandness.
 

Freomaniac

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Supporting this club teaches you humility, that I can say for truth.
Well I cant call any saints a Band wagon supporter if they supported them from that bleak 1980s period getting 4-5 spoons in a row.
 

Freomaniac

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We only traded him because he wanted to leave.
Did Tony Lockett Really Wanted to leave the Saints? Did Lockett Leave for the Money? Or did he leave to not be Hounded by the Victorian Media? Or Did the AFL Step in and Send him to Sydney to help build up the Sydney Swans fan base?

I think its a mixture of all those options.


Y

you live in vic?
People don’t change club support eagles and crows had the whole state.
Crows a little less because a lot of port sanfl supporters didn’t jump ship and crows hadn’t won a flag before ports inception
Adding a second team in WA does not give you %50 of market share there’s no family influence.
You start with a %5 share and as figures show now original supporters are having and influencing a new generation for growth.
Eagles won two flags with basically a state team before the anchors entered the room puts the start marker a very long way back
I think StCicatriz Lives in WA. I assume a few Saints fans live in WA such as Plugger35

Yep when it comes to Port Adelaide Power, majority of Port Power fans follow Port magpies in the SANFL. Most Glenelg and Norwood fans in the SANFL are crows fans.

Despite freos struggles in the early years, Freo manages to get supporters from a few WAFL clubs. Mainly South Freo and Peel and to a Small degree east freo and Claremont.

Made finals only twice this decade and was only 2010 and 2011 not getting that 2010 flag has made it so much worse
True. Also they nearly made Finals in 2012, 2016 and 2017.


Worse thing you can do is Finish 9th. You look at Richmond. From 1983-2012, they only made finals twice in that Period and that was 1995 and 2001 and both those years were prelims.

Then you think of All those years richmond finished 9th from 1990 onwards: 1994, 1996, 2000, 2006 and 2008. Even though they finished 12th in 2005, they lost a few games by under a goal and needed to win one or 2 of them to get 8th spot in stead of Port in 2005.

Imagine if Richmond finished 8th instead of 9th in 1994, 1996, 2000, 2006 and 2008. Even if they got belted in the Elimination finals in each of those 5 seasons. It would of looked more better in the history books.

It would of read they would of made finals in 1994-6, 2000-2001, 2006 and 2008. The moderate success from 2013 onwards sort of made up for it though.


As I said as a Freo fan, that chris Connolly era of 2002-7 furstrated me. finals in 2003 and 2006 when freo should of made finals each year from 2003-7
 
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juss

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New coaches usually get a leave pass too if things don't go well, so I reckon 2020 is the last time they will able to middle the pack before there will be decent pressure on making finals in 2021.
 

Freomaniac

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West adelaide was my country zone So not having access I never got really attached
Bordered in Norwood zone so would head to parade occasionally Got around centrals and north because mates played for them
Was never a member but loved the social aspect of sanfl spectating
Ok. I do live in the Port Adelaide area of all places but Never followed the Port Magpies. I am a South Adelaide Supporter. I love travelling from the Adelaide CBD to Noarlunga by train. Yeah its a 50 minute train ride.

I was never a Member of South Adelaide Panthers but I go to their home games most of the time. Like you, I enjoy the social aspect of it too hanging around with the regulars. I needed was a $20 note. I buy my ticket, get a drink and a pie or hotdog and remarkably have a $5 note left.


its funny how freo fans dominate this thread

freo are becoming the St Kilda of WA
Yes and No.

Yes in a way due to Lack of Success.

No in a way, despite finishing in the bottom 6 for 4 years in a row, Still have a good supporter base. Once freo make finals again, the WAFC will be happy pulling in more money for them.


And the confidence of landing one of those flags may beget additional flags

All conjecture though
True. But the perceiption and view of Saint Kilda would of been differerent had they won 3-6 flags since 1960 rather than one.


...and here is the end of the argument. If these "smaller Vic clubs" are unable to fill the majority of docklands regularly, they have no place in a national competition.

Time they merge, relocate or make way for clubs in genuine markets.

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Typical Crows fans wanting to kill off Vic Clubs. If people like you had their way, The AFL would be as Stable as Rugby Union and the FFA/A-league/Soccer.

A team like North will never move out side of Victoria. They will get a team like Carlton or Richmond once and that will be a North "Home" game. That will pull in 40,000 people and all that money goes to North. North with their current team wont get 20,000 vs Freo.

North or Dogs can lose 2-3 million each year. The AFL makes so much money that they can pay the debt.

I remember Port Adelaide losing money Post 2007. From 2008-2012, Port was losing on average 2-3 million each year due to the low crowds. Hell Port Lost 6 million in one season, that was 2012. the AFL paid that debt off too.

I am suprised you didnt want Brisbane killed off after their struggles from 2010-2018.


And where would you final new Markets? Canberra? Newcastle?
 

Hawkk

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Saints have a bigger supporter base than hawks.Its just been dormant.Its always going to be hard for Giants to win finals n Melbourne for example.I would rather play the Hawks as I think a lot more supporters would come out of the woodwork and be louder and create more excitement for the Saints than the Hawks Saints just need to be successful and they will come.Hawks have peaked in terms of support after years of success.
Are you serious?

Basically in the saints most successful era in their existence (2004-2011) their membership plateaued in the low 40,000’s (from a base of 22,000 in 2002) and crowds in the mid 30,000’s

Hawthorn membership ballooned from a base of 28,000 in 2006 to 70,000 plus in 2013 and now 80,000 steady in what has been a mediocre stretch for the club since the 2015 flag (in relative terms)

Between 2008-2017 Hawthorn consistently averaged more than 40,000 to home and away games (with several games against non Vic opposition drawing 50k, 60k and 70k) despite playing 4 of 22 games in Launceston.

Even before Hawthorn’s extended run in the upper echelons, the Hawks had a stronger membership than the Saints in all seasons from 1997-2008 (including 1997 and 1998) save 2005 and 2006 (when the Saints were effectively a kick away from the GF) and Hawthorn finished 15th and 14th (and even then, the saints finished with 3,000 more than Hawthorn only)

But I guess you have ‘vibe’
 
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Freomaniac

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Are you serious?

Basically in the saints most successful era in their existence (2004-2011) their membership plateaued in the low 40,000’s (from a base of 22,000 in 2002) and crowds in the mid 30,000’s

Hawthorn membership ballooned from a base of 28,000 in 2006 to 70,000 plus in 2013 and now 80,000 steady in what has been a mediocre stretch for the club since the 2015 flag (in relative terms)

Between 2008-2017 Hawthorn consistently averaged more than 40,000 to home and away games (with several games against non Vic opposition drawing 50k, 60k and 70k) despite playing 4 of 22 games in Launceston.

Even before Hawthorn’s extended run in the upper echelons, the Hawks had a stronger membership than the Saints in all seasons from 1997-2008 (including 1997 and 1998) save 2005 and 2006 (when the Saints were effectively a kick away from the GF) and Hawthorn finished 15th and 14th (and even then, the saints finished with 3,000 more than Hawthorn only)

But I guess you have ‘vibe’
you need to keep in mind the hawks membership increased after 2008, not suprisingly after the GF win.

It then grew again around that 2012-15 period when the hawks make those 4 grand finals too. Some of those fans from the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s renewed again.

Saying that, look at Richmond. Their numbers were ok before 2017. Once they won the 2017 Flag, thier numbers swelled up.

Then lets look at the demons.

Lets look back in 2012 and 2013 when Mark Neeld was their coach. Never have I seen a coach suck out the confidence off a team so easily.

There were times the demons would struggle to get 20,000 at the MCG.

Then the demons Made finals in 2018. They Beat Geelong and Hawks at the MCG and these casual demon fans came out of nowhere.
 

Tasmanian saint

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See people say this...

And yet Hawthorn has double the membership, revenue and has 5 times more net assets then the ‘loyal’ Saints fans despite experiencing what was ultimately their second most successful era in their history (behind 1965-1972 only)

Go figure
I wouldn’t be to cocky your going to loose your c
 

CaptainRisky

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Sporadic finals appearances, few wins, a small supporter base, average attendance, and a region that has produced very few decent footballers.

What do they have on league officials that allows them to hide in the shadows when merger/relocation talks start? Being a foundation club should mean little, particularly when Fitzroy were taken over
Whats up you , did one of the saints players steal your wife or GF , what a pathetic thread , you really need to get a hobby
 

Mitchell Madness

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Whats up you , did one of the saints players steal your wife or GF , what a pathetic thread , you really need to get a hobby
It was a genuine question given the microscope has been applied on most other clubs at one time or another despite those teams being more successful for the most part. I honestly couldn't care less about the saints
 

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Freomaniac

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It was a genuine question given the microscope has been applied on most other clubs at one time or another despite those teams being more successful for the most part. I honestly couldn't care less about the saints
Meh, Most people questioned freos rebuild under Ross Lyon before he was sacked this year. I took the cirstisim well and replied in an honest and civil response in some of those ross lyon and freo threads.

There were mixed results good or bad. There were a lot of critics that questioned the rebuild under Ross Lyon. I was at least realistic.

I knew Freo were gonna spend at least 3 years out of finals. I knew freo were going to spend at least the 2016, 2017 and 2018 seasons not making finals, thats mainly due to Freo needing to develop or trade in Key positon players. Gutted with freos narrow defeats in 2019 as I though freo could of made finals this year.

If any team was going to do a 3-5 year rebuild, the 1st year of the rebuild was getting all your KPPs in the 1st year of the rebuild. or at least get 2 key defenders and 2 ruckmen which one of those rucks is a servicable full forward. Hence why we got 3 18 year old KPPs in Darcy, Cox and Logue in the 2016 draft. Then get McCarthy and Hamling in the trades.

The 2nd year of the draft was to get a lot of 18-19 year old mids Such as Brayshaw, Banfield, cerra, Corwden and Giro. Which freo did in the 2017 draft. You might get the occasional 190cm mid that can play as a forward flanker and a centre half forward too.

So in those 2 National drafts you have that bunch of 8-12 kids coming in.

So by 2020, The KPPs in Darcy, Cox and Logue are 22 years old. Those mids we got in 2017 are into their 3rd season in 2020 as 21-22 year olds too.

Brisbane and Carlton did go through 4 or 5 year rebuilds. Brisbane made finals, Some people think carlton will contend for finals next year.
 

the Ziebull

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And they still look 2-3 years away from just even being a finalist

They’ve got Hill on 900k and Hannebery on 800k

This could seriously backfire especially with Hannebery
 

joop

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...and here is the end of the argument. If these "smaller Vic clubs" are unable to fill the majority of docklands regularly, they have no place in a national competition.

Time they merge, relocate or make way for clubs in genuine markets.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
This mentality is so ******* stupid.
 

Hawkk

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I wouldn’t be to cocky your going to loose your c
Thats the beauty about Tasmania.

We lose the sponsorship and perhaps the afl won’t tax hawthorn several million dollars per season anymore.

Then again I guess St Kilda could take up the sponsorship and follow in the hawks sponsorship ala Tasmania in 2002 and New Zealand in 2012 and duff it again
 

joop

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Thats the beauty about Tasmania.

We lose the sponsorship and perhaps the afl won’t tax hawthorn several million dollars per season anymore.

Then again I guess St Kilda could take up the sponsorship and follow in the hawks sponsorship ala Tasmania in 2002 and New Zealand in 2012 and duff it again
Yeh, mind boggling why we left Tassie.
 

Freomaniac

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And they still look 2-3 years away from just even being a finalist

They’ve got Hill on 900k and Hannebery on 800k

This could seriously backfire especially with Hannebery
Hill I could understand getting.

Hannebery, they got beacuse of lack of leaders but he only played in the 2nd half of the season.

He didnt play any games in the 1st half of 2019 becaus eof injuries
 

Hawkk

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you need to keep in mind the hawks membership increased after 2008, not suprisingly after the GF win.

It then grew again around that 2012-15 period when the hawks make those 4 grand finals too. Some of those fans from the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s renewed again.

Saying that, look at Richmond. Their numbers were ok before 2017. Once they won the 2017 Flag, thier numbers swelled up.

Then lets look at the demons.

Lets look back in 2012 and 2013 when Mark Neeld was their coach. Never have I seen a coach suck out the confidence off a team so easily.

There were times the demons would struggle to get 20,000 at the MCG.

Then the demons Made finals in 2018. They Beat Geelong and Hawks at the MCG and these casual demon fans came out of nowhere.
Agreed, but if you look at hawthorn’s base membership from 1997-2007 it was much higher then St Kilda’s.

Between 1997 and 2007 Hawthorn’s average membership was 29,835 (low 26,879, high 33,319) whilst the Saints was 24,305 (low 16,510, high 32,337)

In fact during that time period the Saints had more finals appearances (12 v 6), GF appearances (1 v 0) and finals victories (6 v 3)

Go back to 1984 and the Saints have only had 4 seasons (out of 36) where they have had more members then Hawthorn (1993/94, 1996 and 2005).

And unlike Collingwood (32,459 to 41,128 (2002/03) and 57,617 to 72,688 (2010/11)), Richmond (72,669 to 103,358 (2017/19) and Hawthorn (41,436 to 52,496 (2008/09) and 60,841 to 75,351 (2012/15) St Kilda did not enjoy a major bounce during their years in Grand Finals (membership just tipped 40,000 when the major clubs were all drawing 50,000, 60,000 and 70,000 members

I wouldn’t draw to many conclusions from finals attendances, the Hawthorn v W Bulldogs Semi Final in 2016 drew 89,000 but the Dogs didn’t emerge as a power house club even with the 2016 flag

That 2016 Grand Final has to go down as one of the most lopsided / one sided Grand Final crowds in history

If you look at Melbourne based finals crowds over the last 5-7 years we are in a golden age for MCG crowds in September
 

Tasmanian saint

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Thats the beauty about Tasmania.

We lose the sponsorship and perhaps the afl won’t tax hawthorn several million dollars per season anymore.

Then again I guess St Kilda could take up the sponsorship and follow in the hawks sponsorship ala Tasmania in 2002 and New Zealand in 2012 and duff it again
It’s not just the sponsorship you have 10,000 members in Tasmania if you loose your deal I imagine you would loose the majority of those members that’s a lot to loose it’s no coincidence that Kennett has been coming out in the press recently trying to suck up the tas governments arse he desperately wants to hold onto the deal!
 

Pykie

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Sporadic finals appearances, few wins, a small supporter base, average attendance, and a region that has produced very few decent footballers.

What do they have on league officials that allows them to hide in the shadows when merger/relocation talks start? Being a foundation club should mean little, particularly when Fitzroy were taken over
Lol what? Heard of the likes of Chris Judd, Jobe Watson and Josh Kennedy?

The Sandringham Dragons are arguably the strongest underage football side in the country.

If it was still VFL zones, St Kilda would of dominated the last 2 decades.

Bayside Melbourne is probably the strongest area of metro melbourne in football terms, especially with the cross over of the Dandenong Stingrays and Oakleigh Chargers in parts.

The last decade alone:


1576473615347.png
 
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