Why hasnt there been more pressure on st kilda over the years?

NeXus Nick

Team Captain
Jan 28, 2014
462
548
AFL Club
St Kilda
Dont forget they get Millions in handouts from the AFL if they didnt they would have to be wound up due to company laws!
Don't forget, on the other hand your rabble of a club have stolen $150 Million of taxpayers money to rebuild your shit heap down at Geelong. So before shooting off your bigmouth think first.
 

screech

Club Legend
Jun 19, 2002
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Don't forget, on the other hand your rabble of a club have stolen $150 Million of taxpayers money to rebuild your shit heap down at Geelong. So before shooting off your bigmouth think first.
A good investment, Geelong have a clear market and a long term future

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screech

Club Legend
Jun 19, 2002
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Give St Kilda the funding and ability to play home games at Moorabbin and it is exactly the same situation.
Not at all, Moorabbin is a small suburb of Melbourne.

Give St Kilda the funding and play home games at Hobart, Albury, Ballarat or Cairns and it would give the club a future

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Tasmanian saint

Team Captain
Apr 24, 2018
538
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Because there seems to be a general consensus that St Kilda fluked a spot in the national competition just because they happened to be in the right place at the right time.

They have contributed much less to the game than say Norwood, East Fremantle or even Southport, yet they are now one of the 18 most significant clubs in the game through a quirk of history.

In time they will be talked about with fondness in the same way we talk about Fitzroy and South Melbourne, for now let them enjoy it while it lasts.
You’re a straight up troll mate 😂
 

Tasmanian saint

Team Captain
Apr 24, 2018
538
245
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Dont forget they get Millions in handouts from the AFL if they didnt they would have to be wound up due to company laws!
You realise that’s the case for half the clubs in the competition right also Geelong is far from a financial power house how do you think you would be going if you didn’t receive all the government funding you have to upgrade your stadium you would be playing in a run Down dump !
 

Atomboy

Club Legend
Jan 22, 2007
2,345
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Not at all, Moorabbin is a small suburb of Melbourne.

Give St Kilda the funding and play home games at Hobart, Albury, Ballarat or Cairns and it would give the club a future

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I guess if you are restricting those who can come to games on the basis that they must live in the suburb of Moorabin then you are probably correct.

If however you choose to take a wider view and accept that people who don’t live in the suburb of Moorabbin (eg. the other people who also live in Melbourne) can attend then it’s a different proposition.
 

screech

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Jun 19, 2002
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I guess if you are restricting those who can come to games on the basis that they must live in the suburb of Moorabin then you are probably correct.

If however you choose to take a wider view and accept that people who don’t live in the suburb of Moorabbin (eg. the other people who also live in Melbourne) can attend then it’s a different proposition.
No I was more of the line that there are already two Melbourne venues. Developing a third would be wasted money when that money could be used to build the game in an emerging/underrepresented market, rather than just shuffling excess teams in suburban Melbourne.

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Atomboy

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Jan 22, 2007
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No I was more of the line that there are already two Melbourne venues. Developing a third would be wasted money when that money could be used to build the game in an emerging/underrepresented market, rather than just shuffling excess teams in suburban Melbourne.

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Why should the Saints take on the burden of developing more markets ?. We have already paid off Docklands on behalf of the comp and have now been railroaded into playing in Shanghai for the next three years.

Just give us $100 million to develop Moorabbin allowing us to make some money and we will call it even.
 

screech

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Jun 19, 2002
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Why should the Saints take on the burden of developing more markets ?. We have already paid off Docklands on behalf of the comp and have now been railroaded into playing in Shanghai for the next three years.

Just give us $100 million to develop Moorabbin allowing us to make some money and we will call it even.
Because the competition has moved on from being a suburban state league, St Kilda (and others) are no longer required in their current form.

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BangyBangy

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Oct 16, 2013
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Not at all, Moorabbin is a small suburb of Melbourne.

Give St Kilda the funding and play home games at Hobart, Albury, Ballarat or Cairns and it would give the club a future

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Why move a team from suburban Melbourne, an area with a high growth rate, to one of those towns? Hobart, Albury, Ballarat, & Cairns have a lower growth rate than Adelaide. lol. When the AFL introduced new teams it created them in the Gold Coast & Western Sydney because they are growth corridors. They have a long term plan in mind. It's their job to think about the sports landscape 50 years from now. A boutique third stadium in Melbourne is a great idea for a long term plan.
 

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Leeda

Talons B Sharp
Sep 26, 2012
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they have dug their own grave.. or else not a grave but a sensitivity about being worthy..
no they are not worthy.. work on that dudes...high status creates high standards..
 

deanc

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Jun 13, 2014
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Why should the Saints take on the burden of developing more markets ?. We have already paid off Docklands on behalf of the comp and have now been railroaded into playing in Shanghai for the next three years.

Just give us $100 million to develop Moorabbin allowing us to make some money and we will call it even.
From a holistic perspective I think the Saints have been very fortunate that the AFL and the few other clubs continue to assist the club financially, although I'm not sure this is sustainable..?
Removing tradition and emotion, in a purely business sense, the AFL, much like any large business entity with divisions or units (i.e. clubs) that over a period of time are under performing and/or costing the business money, then this unit is quite simply either restructured or shut down...!
 

screech

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Jun 19, 2002
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Why move a team from suburban Melbourne, an area with a high growth rate, to one of those towns? Hobart, Albury, Ballarat, & Cairns have a lower growth rate than Adelaide. lol. When the AFL introduced new teams it created them in the Gold Coast & Western Sydney because they are growth corridors. They have a long term plan in mind. It's their job to think about the sports landscape 50 years from now. A boutique third stadium in Melbourne is a great idea for a long term plan.
If a team in a traditional market needs a "boutique" stadium, they are in the wrong competition or location

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BangyBangy

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If a team in a traditional market needs a "boutique" stadium, they are in the wrong competition or location

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Disagree with that. The MCG holds 95k, but aside from the grand final & Anzac day games, virtually never exceeds 75% of capacity. Same with Docklands too. Pretty sure busting at the seams it will take 50k+, but quite often you'll see game in the mid 20's. I certainly think a stadium with a capacity of 25k could be very handy in Melbourne. Maybe it doesn't fall into boutique stadium category with a capacity like that, but I reckon it's a good size for a third stadium.

All teams will have up & down seasons, when you get Victorian teams that are having a lull in form & playing an interstate team for example a smaller stadium like that would be an ideal size. Whitten Oval, Princess Park, & Moorabbin all viable options. Public transport for Moorabbin is pretty good though.
 

screech

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Jun 19, 2002
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Disagree with that. The MCG holds 95k, but aside from the grand final & Anzac day games, virtually never exceeds 75% of capacity. Same with Docklands too. Pretty sure busting at the seams it will take 50k+, but quite often you'll see game in the mid 20's. I certainly think a stadium with a capacity of 25k could be very handy in Melbourne. Maybe it doesn't fall into boutique stadium category with a capacity like that, but I reckon it's a good size for a third stadium.

All teams will have up & down seasons, when you get Victorian teams that are having a lull in form & playing an interstate team for example a smaller stadium like that would be an ideal size. Whitten Oval, Princess Park, & Moorabbin all viable options. Public transport for Moorabbin is pretty good though.
25k is way to small for a venue in one of the three main markets. Every team should be able to regularly attract 30k for a visiting interstate team to Melbourne, Adelaide or Perth, and in those markets should easily be able to have crowds of over 40k against teams from that state.

This is the problem, in 2019 North Melbourne averaged just over 19k per match against visiting teams and only 33k against other Victorian clubs; St Kilda 22.7k & 31.3k; Bulldogs 25.3k & 33.2k; and Melbourne 25.7k & 39.6k.

To compare, in Perth - West Coast 53k against visitors, Fremantle 39.4k
in Adelaide - Adelaide 43.9k, Port Adelaide 32.4k

Four clubs (St Kilda, North Melbourne, Western Bulldogs & Melbourne) are minnows in their current form. Not all four need to go, but all should be considered for merger or relocation, it is no longer a suburban competition.

Interestingly, Brisbane managed to average 40.6k when playing in Melbourne, Sydney 39.1k - another strong indication (along with on field success) that relocations are excellent long-term outcomes and do not result in significant loss of support.
 

lewdogs

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Jun 4, 2008
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25k is way to small for a venue in one of the three main markets. Every team should be able to regularly attract 30k for a visiting interstate team to Melbourne, Adelaide or Perth, and in those markets should easily be able to have crowds of over 40k against teams from that state.

This is the problem, in 2019 North Melbourne averaged just over 19k per match against visiting teams and only 33k against other Victorian clubs; St Kilda 22.7k & 31.3k; Bulldogs 25.3k & 33.2k; and Melbourne 25.7k & 39.6k.

To compare, in Perth - West Coast 53k against visitors, Fremantle 39.4k
in Adelaide - Adelaide 43.9k, Port Adelaide 32.4k

Four clubs (St Kilda, North Melbourne, Western Bulldogs & Melbourne) are minnows in their current form. Not all four need to go, but all should be considered for merger or relocation, it is no longer a suburban competition.

Interestingly, Brisbane managed to average 40.6k when playing in Melbourne, Sydney 39.1k - another strong indication (along with on field success) that relocations are excellent long-term outcomes and do not result in significant loss of support.
AFL just gave us a lot of money to rebuild our training facilities and return to our heartland of Moorabbin, not going anywhere sorry champ.
 

screech

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Jun 19, 2002
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AFL just gave us a lot of money to rebuild our training facilities and return to our heartland of Moorabbin, not going anywhere sorry champ.
AFL also gave you a lot of money to set up at Seaford too only 10 years ago, I am not suggesting it will happen immediately.

Maybe it will be a good base for a merged entity.
 

Wolftone

Premiership Player
Feb 1, 2012
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Plenty of good footballers come from bayside down to the peninsula so don't know why the OP would claim that. Don't Matthews and Brereton come from this area? Pretty odd for a Hawks supporter to be so wrong...

Also, Gil barracks for the Saints. Fitzroy and South were just another 2 inner suburban clubs of which there are still too many.
Saints are the only club covering the St Kilda to Peninsula area. Kill St Kilda and the AFL lose too many supporters.

But yeah - time for the Saints to head back up the ladder.
St Kilda is an inner city suburb. But they are not based there anymore. So why not change the name of the club and call it the Peninsula Saints instead of St Kilda. Because they are not St Kilda and have nor been for decades.

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Wolftone

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Feb 1, 2012
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It isn't fair to get on St Kilda's back over performance on field and off, they are not alone when it comes to the financials not matching it with the big clubs of the league or in regards to wins/losses.

The market is a nightmare for competition in Victoria. I think it's difficult marketing a second club in WA after the Eagles had established themselves, but Freo still brings in $20,000,000 a year in membership revenue a year, which includes reserved seating and merchandise. Compare that with St Kilda which is closer to $11,000,000. Nine million dollars is a lot of money when it comes to investing in "the brand". West Coast just dropped sixty million in cash on their new training base.

The reality is that if there were four clubs in Victoria, let's call them the Wombats, Bats, Koalas and the Dingoes, they could all be drawing the membership of the financial powerhouses of the AFL. The competition would be very different though, it would have all the history brushed aside and every single club at AFL level would be a new franchise - and I think that will cost more than people really want to pay.

I wonder if the total number of memberships in Victoria has a theoretical cap (outside inflation) and whichever clubs are doing well at the time tend to attract a rolling mass of football supporters who aren't particularly tied to one club, but I expect it's more of an artifact of there being two levels of supporter where some are rusted on regardless of performance and others aren't as motivated unless the team is playing well.

If the AFL was contrived then we'd have a situation where struggling clubs start winning flags for that membership boost to save the AFL cash.
I think Victoria cannot viably sustain 10 teams. Eventually it has to Fall to 8 then in the end to 6. As it stands 20 teams are at the same state the VFL was in when Swans moved to Sydney, in difficult financial situations. Melbourne is not just struggling it is close to bankruptcy. Saints are just holding on. Before Tigers won the flag they were in trouble. Bullies are rescued by state government and AFL grants. Even a premiership did not help their finances greatly. The pokies in their entertainment precinct did though. Half paid for by Victorian tax payers. Swans get no such benefits from NSW government.



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