Why hasnt there been more pressure on st kilda over the years?

[projectv]

Supporting this club teaches you humility, that I can say for truth.

 

[RonnieRaven]

whatever lie you need to cling to

All 20 of the 92 premiership team played WAFL prior to eagles one went via Richmond I could only find 2 not born in wa one being pyke born in the USA
I don’t need to lie I grew up in S.A lived in NT, Qld now reside in Vic I have a rounded view of the National game and don’t discredit ones words because the colours they wear.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Supporting this club teaches you humility, that I can say for truth.

I went to the hawks v eagles gf in 2015 hawks were up by 7 goals Gibson purposely gave a free away in the middle of the ground to stop the run of play and the hawks faithful around me were slinging s**t at Gibson calling him a silly dick
I was shocked had there 4th flag in 8 years stitched and still ragging on their player
And the vitriol at the umpires that day was shocking as well.
I to have been taught humility unfortunately others won’t because they dessert their club after 5 lean years

 

[Freomaniac]

All 20 of the 92 premiership team played WAFL prior to eagles one went via Richmond I could only find 2 not born in wa one being pyke born in the USA
I don’t need to lie I grew up in S.A lived in NT, Qld now reside in Vic I have a rounded view of the National game and don’t discredit ones words because the colours they wear.

you grew up In South Australia?

Did you follow any SANFL team?

 

[deanc]

I went to the hawks v eagles gf in 2015 hawks were up by 7 goals Gibson purposely gave a free away in the middle of the ground to stop the run of play and the hawks faithful around me were slinging s**t at Gibson calling him a silly dick
I was shocked had there 4th flag in 8 years stitched and still ragging on their player
And the vitriol at the umpires that day was shocking as well.
I to have been taught humility unfortunately others won’t because they dessert their club after 5 lean years

If I was to hazard a guess I would say they were younger age supporters (-30yo) who I find tend to have a critical view and opinion on every contest, irrespective of the match situation, and every club has them. It's no surprise when I often discover most of them have never played the game beyond high school or sometimes not at all.
Perhaps I'm a grumpy old man, but unless I'm with my son I tend not to sit near the younger fans as their nonsense and unnecessary vitriol is simply just a distraction I don't need...

 

[RonnieRaven]

you grew up In South Australia?

Did you follow any SANFL team?

West adelaide was my country zone So not having access I never got really attached
Bordered in Norwood zone so would head to parade occasionally Got around centrals and north because mates played for them
Was never a member but loved the social aspect of sanfl spectating

 

[Numero Uno]

All 20 of the 92 premiership team played WAFL prior to eagles one went via Richmond I could only find 2 not born in wa one being pyke born in the USA
I don’t need to lie I grew up in S.A lived in NT, Qld now reside in Vic I have a rounded view of the National game and don’t discredit ones words because the colours they wear.

sure sure..that's what you meant by 'state team'

 

[Scotland]

St Kilda fans IMO seem to have the lowest level of understanding of the rules for the established clubs. People knock WC crowds for booing (like every other crowd does) but every time I watch a St Kilda game the crowd is foaming and giving Bronx cheers when they get a free kick 5 minutes into the first quarter like they've somehow been hard done by all day in the space of 300 seconds... and every time I venture into a St Kilda match thread on here people are banging on about how the umpires hate them and always have. Not "gee we're getting a rough deal today" but genuine belief of some kind of conspiracy. Weird.

 

[4THAWN]

If I was to hazard a guess I would say they were younger age supporters (-30yo) who I find tend to have a critical view and opinion on every contest, irrespective of the match situation, and every club has them. It's no surprise when I often discover most of them have never played the game beyond high school or sometimes not at all.
Perhaps I'm a grumpy old man, but unless I'm with my son I tend not to sit near the younger fans as their nonsense and unnecessary vitriol is simply just a distraction I don't need...

you are joking right...

the most feral supporters are always consistently the 40+ crowd

 

[deanc]

you are joking right...

the most feral supporters are always consistently the 40+ crowd

Are you sure they are 40+ or just look like they are? Concede, it's not exclusively the younger crowd, but having attended games around the country for nearly 30 years it's really only in WA where I've witnessed the older crowd consistently losing the plot...

 

[Numero Uno]

St Kilda fans IMO seem to have the lowest level of understanding of the rules for the established clubs. People knock WC crowds for booing (like every other crowd does) but every time I watch a St Kilda game the crowd is foaming and giving Bronx cheers when they get a free kick 5 minutes into the first quarter like they've somehow been hard done by all day in the space of 300 seconds... and every time I venture into a St Kilda match thread on here people are banging on about how the umpires hate them and always have. Not "gee we're getting a rough deal today" but genuine belief of some kind of conspiracy. Weird.

its funny how freo fans dominate this thread

freo are becoming the St Kilda of WA

 

[westie]

Why don't all their rich fans like Gudinski,Bana and Meldrum, donate money or organise a fundraiser.
Compared by Eric Bana and Shane Warne with performances by Tex Perkins, Marina Prior , Ross Wilson and TISM.

As a great man once said; "You, are an Ideas Man". I can't wait

 

[The Warlord]

St Kilda fans are pretty feral in my experience, can't really blame them, jeez they've been dealt some trying hands over the years.

Also, they tend to come from that low rent bogan belt of south eastern suburbs.

 

[Harvey to Hayes]

1 premiership and therefore wgaf.

Wow illuminating input, must be great being an entitled dogflogger...

 

[westie]

Wow illuminating input, must be great being an entitled dogflogger...

A bit of success and it goes to their heads.

 

[Freomaniac]

um we DREW a grand final. so how did we lose two grand finals in a row?

toepoke and a bounce of a ball.
minor premiers too.

yes we nearly won back to back flags. ask any serious person.

Had they won one flag when they had that wonderful team we would look at Saints differently

Agreed.......

But If you look back from post 1960 onwards. Had luck went the Saints way in Certain situations, Saints could of won around another 3-7 flags instead of just that sole Flag from 1966......

You look at the Alan Jeans Era from 1961-1976, they potientially could of won 4 flags from 1965-72.

1965: Lost to Essendon in the Grand final
1966: Won the flag obviously.
1971: Lost the Grand final by 7 points despite having a 3 goal lead a 3 quarter time.
1972: Lost Narrowly to the Blues by just over a goal. Would of faced Richmond in a Grand final, which would of been a 50/50 game. Saints Would of had finals expereince from their players that played in those 1965, 1966 and 1971 Grand finals, Richmond would have a fair bit of those blokes from those 1967 and 1969 flags.


then you had that period from 1974-1990 when they didnt play finals.

Then you got that whole period from 1997 onwards.....

1997: Played in that grand final and lost to the Crows and the saints lead at half time.

You then had the Grant Thomas Era.

2004: Lost that Prelim to Port by a goal, would of played Brisbane in that Grand final. I think Brisbane would of won easily due to being a Finals Hardened side.

2005: Lost the Prelim to the Swans at the MCG. Saints lead by 15 points at 3 quarter time. Swans kicked 7 goals in the final Quarter.

This would of been an interesting scenario had the saints won that 2005 prelim. Saints sould of Faced West coast in the Grand final. Eagles Had Judd, Cousins and Kerr as the mids. Saying that, Had the saints made that GF, It would of been a Medium scoring game. It would of been a higher scoring game than what we actually had in that 2005 GF. Saints had Fraser Gherig, Nick Riewoldt and Kozi as tall forwards. I could see the saints win this type of grand final by 20-30 points and kicking 13-16 goals.

Saints in 2005 had the undisputed attacking side points wise: 2407 points in 22 regualar season games. Eagles were distant 2nd on 2261 points in 22 games.


Now..... This is where it gets interesting. Because Grant Thomas was gone from the saints in 2006 after that elim final exit. In this Alternative timeline. Had the saints won the 2005 prelim vs the swans and beat the Eagles in the Grand final in 2005, this changes a lot of things. The biggest thing would of been that Grant Thomas would still be coaching from 2007 onwards.

That Means that Ross Lyon doesnt coach the Saints in 2007-11!


Then you got the Ross Lyon Era of 2007-2011.

2009: Yep the Narrow Grand final loss to Geelong. People talk about the toe poke. Saints Did kick 9.14.68. Saints sprayed some shots in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters. Should of kicked 12-14 goals that day then the toe poke wouldnt of been an important part of the game.

2010: The drawn GF. Milne had the unlucky Bounce. Had the ball bounced the right way, Milne would of at worst soccered the ball 5 metres out. Saints win by 5 points.

Again, had the saints won either or both the 2009 and 2010 Grand finals, Ross Lyon would of been a premiership coach. Would he of gone to Freo at the end of 2011? Very unlikely. It might of been possible considering Lyons Financial problems around the 2009 Grand final.



So If you look back at it, they could of won more flags and those premierships they could of added would be...

1965
1971
1972
1997
2004*
2005*
2009
2010

Had the Saints won another flag or 2 under Allan Jeans from 1965-72, it would of been like Norths sides of the 1970s or 1990s, West coast of 1990-94, or Cats of 2007-2011. A good team that made multiple grand finals, that remarkably didnt win Multiple flags but had to win 2 flags in that 4-5 year period to say they were a good solid powerhouse in a 4-5 year period.

I put an Asterisk in 2004 and 2005. Again. Had the saints won a flag in 2004 or 2005, Ross Lyon would never of been a saints coach from 2007-2011.

Saints would of also had a bigger supporter base obviously.

 

[Gavin Excell]

Agreed.......

But If you look back from post 1960 onwards. Had luck went the Saints way in Certain situations, Saints could of won around another 3-7 flags instead of just that sole Flag from 1966......

You look at the Alan Jeans Era from 1961-1976, they potientially could of won 4 flags from 1965-72.

1965: Lost to Essendon in the Grand final
1966: Won the flag obviously.
1971: Lost the Grand final by 7 points despite having a 3 goal lead a 3 quarter time.
1972: Lost Narrowly to the Blues by just over a goal. Would of faced Richmond in a Grand final, which would of been a 50/50 game. Saints Would of had finals expereince from their players that played in those 1965, 1966 and 1971 Grand finals, Richmond would have a fair bit of those blokes from those 1967 and 1969 flags.


then you had that period from 1974-1990 when they didnt play finals.

Then you got that whole period from 1997 onwards.....

1997: Played in that grand final and lost to the Crows and the saints lead at half time.

You then had the Grant Thomas Era.

2004: Lost that Prelim to Port by a goal, would of played Brisbane in that Grand final. I think Brisbane would of won easily due to being a Finals Hardened side.

2005: Lost the Prelim to the Swans at the MCG. Saints lead by 15 points at 3 quarter time. Swans kicked 7 goals in the final Quarter.

This would of been an interesting scenario had the saints won that 2005 prelim. Saints sould of Faced West coast in the Grand final. Eagles Had Judd, Cousins and Kerr as the mids. Saying that, Had the saints made that GF, It would of been a Medium scoring game. It would of been a higher scoring game than what we actually had in that 2005 GF. Saints had Fraser Gherig, Nick Riewoldt and Kozi as tall forwards. I could see the saints win this type of grand final by 20-30 points and kicking 13-16 goals.

Saints in 2005 had the undisputed attacking side points wise: 2407 points in 22 regualar season games. Eagles were distant 2nd on 2261 points in 22 games.


Now..... This is where it gets interesting. Because Grant Thomas was gone from the saints in 2006 after that elim final exit. In this Alternative timeline. Had the saints won the 2005 prelim vs the swans and beat the Eagles in the Grand final in 2005, this changes a lot of things. The biggest thing would of been that Grant Thomas would still be coaching from 2007 onwards.

That Means that Ross Lyon doesnt coach the Saints in 2007-11!


Then you got the Ross Lyon Era of 2007-2011.

2009: Yep the Narrow Grand final loss to Geelong. People talk about the toe poke. Saints Did kick 9.14.68. Saints sprayed some shots in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters. Should of kicked 12-14 goals that day then the toe poke wouldnt of been an important part of the game.

2010: The drawn GF. Milne had the unlucky Bounce. Had the ball bounced the right way, Milne would of at worst soccered the ball 5 metres out. Saints win by 5 points.

Again, had the saints won either or both the 2009 and 2010 Grand finals, Ross Lyon would of been a premiership coach. Would he of gone to Freo at the end of 2011? Very unlikely. It might of been possible considering Lyons Financial problems around the 2009 Grand final.



So If you look back at it, they could of won more flags and those premierships they could of added would be...

1965
1971
1972
1997
2004*
2005*
2009
2010

Had the Saints won another flag or 2 under Allan Jeans from 1965-72, it would of been like Norths sides of the 1970s or 1990s, West coast of 1990-94, or Cats of 2007-2011. A good team that made multiple grand finals, that remarkably didnt win Multiple flags but had to win 2 flags in that 4-5 year period to say they were a good solid powerhouse in a 4-5 year period.

I put an Asterisk in 2004 and 2005. Again. Had the saints won a flag in 2004 or 2005, Ross Lyon would never of been a saints coach from 2007-2011.

Saints would of also had a bigger supporter base obviously.

And the confidence of landing one of those flags may beget additional flags

All conjecture though

 

[Freomaniac]

We do now but spent the past 15 years helping to pay off Marvel Stadium for the competition.

That screwed our revenue base making us the patsies for any weird fixturing the AFL directed us to do (Townsville, Cairns, Darwin, China etc).

Hopefully we get to a point where we can play home games at Moorabbin ala Geelong against the non-Vic clubs and make some money rather than having to write the AFL a cheque for the pleasure of playing at Marvel.

I have Always wondered that. Saints playing 2-4 home games at Moorabbin oval. Bring the seating Capacity up to 25-30,000. Pay dirt cheap rent and keep the majority of the ticket money.

I have wondered why VISY park or Princes Park hasnt been used for AFL games.

 

[Scotland]

The spanner in the works is Nick "I see it but I don't believe it" Davis. St Kilda really should've won a home prelim against 6th placed Geelong compared to a finals hardened Sydney.

Anyway, the Saints massively underachieved in the 2000s. Below is the team that Sydney beat in the 2005 prelim (rough positions) with bolded to highlight those who won AA honours in the 2000s. In 2007 they added Sean Dempster and they already had Sam Fisher on the list. So that's 11 AAs in the 2000s plus Dempster in 2012.

B: Jones Maguire Blake
HB: Goddard Hudghton Gwilt
C: Montagna Hayes Dal Santo
HF: Guerra Riewoldt B Voss
F: Fiora Gehrig Milne
Foll: Ackland Harvey Ball

IC: Baker R Clarke Powell Thompson

 

[Evolved1]

St Kilda fans IMO seem to have the lowest level of understanding of the rules for the established clubs. People knock WC crowds for booing (like every other crowd does) but every time I watch a St Kilda game the crowd is foaming and giving Bronx cheers when they get a free kick 5 minutes into the first quarter like they've somehow been hard done by all day in the space of 300 seconds... and every time I venture into a St Kilda match thread on here people are banging on about how the umpires hate them and always have. Not "gee we're getting a rough deal today" but genuine belief of some kind of conspiracy. Weird.

StKilda crowd is an oxymoron.

 

[Evolved1]

I have Always wondered that. Saints playing 2-4 home games at Moorabbin oval. Bring the seating Capacity up to 25-30,000. Pay dirt cheap rent and keep the majority of the ticket money.

I have wondered why VISY park or Princes Park hasnt been used for AFL games.

It's not economically viable to have the Vic teams playing on suburban grounds. If you go down that route, you'd need to home Essendon at Windy Hill or Tullamarine, Collingwood at Victoria Park, the dogs at the Western Oval, Hawthorn at Glenferrie rd, etc.

I would prefer each team have their own home ground, but money makes the AFL world go round.

 

[Freomaniac]

It's not economically viable to have the Vic teams playing on suburban grounds. If you go down that route, you'd need to home Essendon at Windy Hill or Tullamarine, Collingwood at Victoria Park, the dogs at the Western Oval, Hawthorn at Glenferrie rd, etc.

I would prefer each team have their own home ground, but money makes the AFL world go round.

It depends what your trying to do. Is Geelongs home ground a suburban ground?

Geelong Played their home final in 2013 for a reason. Yeah it was against Freo. But for them to make more money in a sold out 36,000 seat Kardinia Park compared to getting 50,000 in Docklands says something.

I ratther smaller Vic Clubs play games in 25-30,000 seat suburban grounds then in a 55,000 seat docklands.

Its justs looks ugly on TV seeing a small vic club get 20,000 in a 55, 000 seat docklands.

 

[Evolved1]

It depends what your trying to do. Is Geelongs home ground a suburban ground?

Geelong Played their home final in 2013 for a reason. Yeah it was against Freo. But for them to make more money in a sold out 36,000 seat Kardinia Park compared to getting 50,000 in Docklands says something.

I ratther smaller Vic Clubs play games in 25-30,000 seat suburban grounds then in a 55,000 seat docklands.

Its justs looks ugly on TV seeing a small vic club get 20,000 in a 55, 000 seat docklands.

You make some good points there, but AFL is run as a business and suburban grounds don't make sense to the bean counters who run the league.

Geelong is far enough away from Melbourne that a boutique stadium in Geelong makes sense. That, along with funding to upgrade KP, are the reasons that Geelong have their own ground to play at. Even then they don't get to play all of their home games there.

I prefer the old style suburban grounds for their far better atmosphere even if I don't get a seat.

 

[screech]

I ratther smaller Vic Clubs play games in 25-30,000 seat suburban grounds then in a 55,000 seat docklands.

...and here is the end of the argument. If these "smaller Vic clubs" are unable to fill the majority of docklands regularly, they have no place in a national competition.

Time they merge, relocate or make way for clubs in genuine markets.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

 

[Evolved1]

...and here is the end of the argument. If these "smaller Vic clubs" are unable to fill the majority of docklands regularly, they have no place in a national competition.

Time they merge, relocate or make way for clubs in genuine markets.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Where are these untapped genuine markets you speak of?

Adelaide are a two team town, and one of your sides used tarps to hide their shame not so long ago.