Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

hamohawk1

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(Former thread title: I'm sick and tired of Islam-phobia)


I think todays comments by Sonia Kruger have tipped me over the edge. I understand there are the possibility of radicals within the Muslim fraternity but this has got to far, the bashing of this religion is ludicrous. The consistent rhetoric around Muslims will not assist in fighting extremists from within and now may serve to only inspire those thinking of causing such harm to do so. IMO the only way we are going to counter extremists from any religion or general back ground is a collaborated approach that doesn't harbour hate and distain.
 
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Malifice

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All those comments do is affirm the ISIL narrative that 'the West' is at war with Islam.

She's playing right into their hands.

I mean, men have a statistically much higher rate of murder than women, and mass killers and extremists are almost invariably men. Should we ban Male immigration to Australia on those grounds?

Customs: Sorry mate, you've got a penis. The risk of you murdering someone or becoming an extremist is much too high.
 

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hamohawk1

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All those comments do is affirm the ISIL narrative that 'the West' is at war with Islam.

She's playing right into their hands.

I mean, men have a statistically much higher rate of murder than women, and mass killers and extremists are almost invariably men. Should we ban Male immigration to Australia on those grounds?

Customs: Sorry mate, you've got a penis. The risk of you murdering someone or becoming an extremist is much too high.
After my inability to pull a female on saturday night I'm all for this banning of male immigration.
 

PonsfordMagpie

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Islamophobia is a bullshit term with the term coming from the Muslim Brotherhood to stifle political discussion, and somehow to conflate a dislike or criticism of Islam as a religion or ideology with the hate or dislike of Muslims as people.

I can't see why someone cannot oppose Islam or Islamism without being described as a hater of Muslims. People don't hate Catholics if they criticise the inner-workings of the Catholic Church for whatever reason, if that's because of child abuse cases or tax-exempt reasons for example.

It seems to imply that people have an irrational fear of Islam when in reality most just dislike it but don't fear it.

I'd rather hear all sides on this. For what it's worth, I think heading down a path of banning Muslim immigration into Australia completely would be dangerous for various reasons, but if we silence one side of the argument who have valid concerns we will go around in circles and get nowhere on this issue.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of people being called "racists" and "Islamophobes" very loosely and shutting down any chance of a sensible political discussion because a few people are offended.
 
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CM86

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I'm all for bagging out any religion, Islam included.

Doesn't mean I support the discrimination of a people. And that seems to be the point of divergence.

Also, what's with the push against the term "Islamophobia" again?

"I'm not scared of homos, so I ain't homophobic!"
"I don't have a phobia of homos, I just think they are the spawn of the devil."

If you can't have a reasonable discussion, without resorting to bigoted comments, then you need to work on yourself. Not try and re-define a word and play the victim.
 

PonsfordMagpie

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Do you really think "let's ban all Muslim immigration" is really sensible discussion? Do you think Pauline Hansen is interested in having a reasonable debate on this issue?
Instead of shutting her down and dismissing her views outright, I'd rather hear someone say in clear, concise and sensible detail why her position is absurd or wrong rather than crying and shouting "racist" when someone challenges the status quo for good or bad.

I don't endorse her views, but there's a reason why Hanson has support in this country and merely writing her off as a "racist" or "extreme" will only generate further support for her.
 

JackOutback

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I'm sick and tired of non-entities like Sonia Kruger being asked for their opinions on matters so clearly beyond their limited intellect and the media for inflating them on the level of informed discussion. Seriously, who the fu** cares what Sonia Kruger thinks about our immigration policies, what influence does she carry over these policies?
 

Malifice

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Islamophobia is a bullshit term with the term coming from the Muslim Brotherhood to stifle political discussion, and somehow to conflate a dislike or criticism of Islam as a religion or ideology with the hate or dislike of Muslims as people.
Do you have the same views towards antisemitsm? Or racism? Made up words created by 'the Jews and blacks' to 'stifle political discussion' as well?

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of people being called "racists" and "Islamophobes" very loosely and shutting down any chance of a sensible political discussion because a few people are offended.
So am I.

Unless the person in question is actually being a racist or an Islamophobe of course.
 

Saintt

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Do you have the same views towards antisemitsm? Or racism? Made up words created by 'the Jews and blacks' to 'stifle political discussion' as well?



So am I.

Unless the person in question is actually being a racist or an Islamophobe of course.
Islamophobia has more in common with Naziophobia than it does with racism.
 

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Malifice

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Islamophobia has more in common with Naziophobia than it does with racism.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. How the fu** do you expect there to be any rational discussion of the topic when you spruike utter crap like this?

Youre as bad as the Lefties who shout people down. This kind of shit ruins any chance of an actual discussion of the topic.
 

Saintt

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This is exactly what I'm talking about. How the **** do you expect there to be any rational discussion of the topic when you spruike utter crap like this?

Youre as bad as the Lefties who shout people down. This kind of shit ruins any chance of an actual discussion of the topic.
You equate Muslims with brown people which is why you equate Islamophobia with racism, rather than a shitty religion that preaches hate and intolerance. And you are a leftie shouting me down so I'm not what you mean by that?
 

Run n Spread

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I think todays comments by Sonia Kruger have tipped me over the edge. I understand there are the possibility of radicals within the Muslim fraternity but this has got to far, the bashing of this religion is ludicrous. The consistent rhetoric around Muslims will not assist in fighting extremists from within and now may serve to only inspire those thinking of causing such harm to do so. IMO the only way we are going to counter extremists from any religion or general back ground is a collaborated approach that doesn't harbour hate and distain.
I agree to the extent. Don't play the man play the ball.

I can hate the ideology of North Korean totalitarian ideology without hating North Koreans. For they are born in that part of the world and have no say.

I can hate the ideologue of bikies and the Hells Angels without having anything personally against your average bogan member who was just born/mixed/circumstance led them to that circle.

Just as I can hate .............you see where I'm going.

In fact why do we as Humanity even tolerate Religion and their bullshit anymore?

There are 3 dominant Religions in the world today.

1) Mutalate their genitals still.

2) Another have upteem royal Co missions into Paedophilia going on where they have a major foot hold.

3) Another seemingly can not co-exist with any other Culture, Religion or belief system and anywhere they reach a significant number violence and terrorism emerges.

I realise people will always ask deep questions and there is a battle for hearts and minds but surely by now Religion has lost the battle.
 

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As to the immigration debate...........

I simply can not take Right Wingers seriously. They do stoke prejudice, racism and discontent on one hand yet on the other run one of the most lax, ill disciplined and out of control immigration policies of all time.

I think Australia should seriously tighten even suspend immigration (Of all Nations across the board) until we have our shit sorted and then run a controlled program. Or operate on a basis of true Globalism and just open the Borders on all sides and allow freedom of movement.
 

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Anyone who trusts Sonia Kruger's opinion on politics is someone who would take sun smart advice from Pete Evans.
True. But as I have said many times on the board why can't we at least have the debate? Why can't we say maybe with 40 million displaced and Australia not being in a position to take all can't we at least decide who we take in?

Sonia Kruger may not be a Mensa giant but is still an Australian Citizen and still very much able to voice her opinion. Which is all she did.
 

Reynolds Number

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I have no problems on selecting who we take in and being more restrictive (e.g. not letting those with certain criminal records in, not letting those that proudly display support for terrorist groups or are involved in terrorist groups etc.). Just not in a way that panders to uneducated opinions and bigotry.
 

Malifice

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You equate Muslims with brown people which is why you equate Islamophobia with racism, rather than a shitty religion that preaches hate and intolerance.
I equate Islamophobia with racism because both are forms of hate speech.

You're sitting here preaching hate and intolerance towards Muslims, who you apparently only despise on account of them apparently being hateful and intolerant.

That the hypocricy, absurdity and irony of your own position is utterly lost on you, amuses me no end.

And you are a leftie shouting me down so I'm not what you mean by that?
If I wanted to shout you down on this forum, I have better methods available to me to do so.

Instead, I was trying to encourage responsibile and mature debate, without resorting to intentionally antagonistic or bigoted bullshit.

I can see I failed.
 

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Do you really think "let's ban all Muslim immigration" is really sensible discussion? Do you think Pauline Hansen is interested in having a reasonable debate on this issue?
Let me put it another way.

Right now of 2016 the World's population is out of control to the extent the Planet is suffering.

In an Australian context Australian Cities are grid looked. Traffic and public transport is extreme to the extent that people are travelling previously reasonable distances 2 hours each way and missing valuable family/leisure/relaxation time. There are no jobs anymore to the extent Australia has a homeless catastrophe on our hands with people literally dying in the street.

Given the Australian Birth Rate is under 2.1 our population growth is caused by immigration. So why even have it in the ******* first place??????????? Given our Government is elected to ensure they represent the interests of Australian Citizens why prioritise the rest of the world first????????

OR

One could argue Multiculturalism is a great thing if we take the best of what each other has to offer and junk the rest. We are human after all and all in this together. Only then can humanity truly develop. Then by all means take all comers and open the borders. But if you do that you then have to release us from all the ridiculous nanny State Rules Prohibitions and Regulations that simply act as a Handbrake on Life rather than protect us from anything. Let's have a true open society where information and choices are free for everyone and personal responsibility is key. Let the Big Girls and Boys out to play.

I could debate this for a week and I never thought I would take the Andrew Bolts and Sonia Krugers seriously but one thing they are spot on about is....We simply can not go on like this. We have to change.
 

Nikita Blue

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True. But as I have said many times on the board why can't we at least have the debate? Why can't we say maybe with 40 million displaced and Australia not being in a position to take all can't we at least decide who we take in?

Sonia Kruger may not be a Mensa giant but is still an Australian Citizen and still very much able to voice her opinion. Which is all she did.
And other people are perfectly entitled to draw attention to her idiocy.
 

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