Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[Procrastinator35]

Just in case we needed any more proof that certain people aren't willing to have a mature honest discussion, here comes the baseless charges of bigotry. Be ashamed of yourself.

Nah....Zero shame or remorse here podge.

That sentiment sums up very well, the underlying ethos of many posters here, in this thread.

Also....You trying to pull off the moral authority act is really quite hilarious.

 

[Lethality]

Nah....Zero shame or remorse here podge.

No doubt.

That sentiment sums up very well, the underlying ethos of many posters here, in this thread.

That charge was levelled at me since Maggie was talking about why I didn't discuss the problem any further. Don't dissemble by talking about 'many posters'. I donate money overseas, specifically towards children in 3rd world countries, who presumably are Muslim. Then I hear this s**t about not caring whether children in those countries are blown up. Pathetic.

 

[Procrastinator35]

That charge was levelled at me since Maggie was talking about why I didn't discuss the problem any further. Don't dissemble by talking about 'many posters'. I donate money overseas, specifically towards children in 3rd world countries, who presumably are Muslim. Then I hear this s**t about not caring whether children in those countries are blown up. Pathetic.

Good to hear podge....It's nice to see your caring side.

Maggie merely posed the question at you....I made the generalized comment, it is true....However, if you feel the cap fits, then wear it with my compliments.

 

[Lethality]

Good to hear podge....It's nice to see your caring side.

Maggie merely posed the question at you....I made the generalized comment, it is true....

It's a stupid thing to say that people here don't care about the killing of children, and children who are too young to even choose their religion, let alone have it held against them. I hope this isn't lost on anyone who heard your disgraceful comments.

 

[Procrastinator35]

It's a stupid thing to say that people here don't care about the killing of children, and children who are too young to even choose their religion, let alone have it held against them. I hope this isn't lost on anyone who heard your disgraceful comments.

More defensive/aggressive high-horseism....I stand by my comments podge.

But again....It's nice to see you putting a human face on the enemy....Er, I mean, Muslims, for a change.

 

[Lethality]

More defensive/aggressive high-horseism....I stand by my comments podge.

Good, stand by them, you're another example of where religious ideology can take a person.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Good, stand by them, you're another example of where religious ideology can take a person.

 

[Maggie5]

Irrelevant as I'm talking about the denial of the problem, not whether nobody anywhere is criticizing Islam. Think Waleed Aly, Barack Obama, Glenn Greenwald, Reza Aslan, hell even George W. Bush, who consistently and dishonestly portray a flowery version of the faith.

What's to say? I don't think anybody is arguing FOR the destruction of innocent people.

You see this is the problem in discussing this topic with. Your words, 'consistently and dishonestly portray a flowery version'. I don't accept this.

I think that there is a lot to say and 4 Corners did a good job but haven't seen it discussed anywhere on BF, It is not about arguing for or against, it just is destruction and the innocent loss and displacement of lives.

Glad you didn't mention Asra Normani in the list as she is someone that I find very informative.
Sadly not being on Facebook have to put up with the nagging banner when reading the thread, but there are lots of articles where she is quoted.

 

[Maggie5]

That charge was levelled at me since Maggie was talking about why I didn't discuss the problem any further. D.

I didn't mean it as an attack, I was just asking the question.
I don't mind our discussions as it is pretty civil even when we don't agree and I can see you are very passionate about this topic.
Maybe I will just see myself out at this stage.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Lol Dabiq, the ISIS propaganda magazine, mentions this as well. They are frustrated that the acknowledgment of intolerance in Islam usually comes from the right wing margins, like Hanson, and therefore is easily dismissed.

Then there's the president saying Islam is a religion of peace, which even Muslims who want reform want him to stop saying. You also only need go as far as looking at this thread title to see what the attitude towards criticizing Islam is.

Fortunately the cat is out of the bag when it comes to Islam, yet we continue to see denial of the problem in the media and by politicians.

Irrelevant as I'm talking about the denial of the problem, not whether nobody anywhere is criticizing Islam. Think Waleed Aly, Barack Obama, Glenn Greenwald, Reza Aslan, hell even George W. Bush, who consistently and dishonestly portray a flowery version of the faith. These people are not interested in a serious, no-nonsense discussion on Islam in the public sphere.

If you need to hear it from the horse's mouth, here's a great interview of a Muslim, criticizing Islam.





What's to say? I don't think anybody is arguing FOR the destruction of innocent people.

Mehdi Hasan believes mohammed flew to the moon on a winged horse and split it in two.
He believes this literally,he actually believes this took place.
No wonder islam has issues.

 

[Maggie5]

Mehdi Hasan believes mohammed flew to the moon on a winged horse and split it in two.
He believes this literally,he actually believes this took place.
No wonder islam has issues.

Thanks, now I can't get the tune 'I am Pegasus' out of my mind.

 

[chelseacarlton]

Thanks, now I can't get the tune 'I am Pegasus' out of my mind.

Well,what I wrote was wrong anyway maggs.
He flew to heaven on the Pegasus and split the moon in two.
Oh sorry that's a terribly annoying old tune.

 

[Lethality]

You see this is the problem in discussing this topic with. Your words, 'consistently and dishonestly portray a flowery version'. I don't accept this.

That's fine not to accept it, but can you prove it wrong? When has Barack Obama said a bad word about Islam?

I think that there is a lot to say and 4 Corners did a good job but haven't seen it discussed anywhere on BF, It is not about arguing for or against, it just is destruction and the innocent loss and displacement of lives.

I can discuss that girl on 4 corners jumping at the sound of explosions during her interview, but what would be the point of that? I think we're in agreement that bombing children is bad.

Glad you didn't mention Asra Normani in the list as she is someone that I find very informative.

I don't necessarily agree with these people, but I support them because they are arguing the points honestly. Can't say the same for the names I mentioned earlier.

 

[Lethality]

Mehdi Hasan believes mohammed flew to the moon on a winged horse and split it in two.
He believes this literally,he actually believes this took place.
No wonder islam has issues.

I once had a conversation with a Muslim dude who told me the fact that Muhammad flew to heaven at lightspeed while the rest of the world stood still (according to the Islamic text) proves that the Qur'an is a miracle because they knew about relativity before Einstein did.


Never mind that the idea that someone flew at lightspeed on a donkey is highly improbable, travelling at lightspeed doesn't stop time for the rest of the universe. If Muhammad actually flew to heaven on a donkey at lightspeed, and heaven is at the corners of the universe, he'd still be on his way there.

 

[Maggie5]

That's fine not to accept it, but can you prove it wrong? When has Barack Obama said a bad word about Islam?

Have heard him criticise terrorism, Daesh (IS), why do you want him to single out Islam? I think that there is nothing wrong with being measured, that is what a good leader does because if he wasn't then there would people out there Trumplike labeling all Muslims terrorists.

I can discuss that girl on 4 corners jumping at the sound of explosions during her interview, but what would be the point of that? I think we're in agreement that bombing children is bad.

You keep referring to children where as I mean people, innocent human beings. The only reason I mentioned the age of the girl was because she was so used to bombing she could identify the type. The point would be that there is a human side to this.

I don't necessarily agree with these people, but I support them because they are arguing the points honestly. Can't say the same for the names I mentioned earlier.

You obviously read a number of articles and watch vids with people whose point of view you agree.
I too have read a number of articles but tend to stay away from what I consider the more extreme views and in my opinion have agendas where as I find her informative and explaining.
I don't go out my way to watch Aly in fact doubt that I have watched The Project in full ever. However I am familiar with what he has said in media reports and can understand him if he feels he needs to defend his faith. I don't have any issue with that. Am not familiar with the other two you mentioned.

The key thing for me is we should never have gotten involved in Howard's war Coalition of the Willing. What a farce.

What I would like to know more about is who is supplying arms to these terrorists. Why Russia, Syria doesn't get more criticism.
But I suppose that would be off-topic.

 

[Lethality]

Have heard him criticise terrorism, Daesh (IS), why do you want him to single out Islam?

He refers to IS as nothing to do with Islam. I don't want him to single out Islam, just to stop lying for it.

I think that there is nothing wrong with being measured, that is what a good leader does because if he wasn't then there would people out there Trumplike labeling all Muslims terrorists.

He is not being measured though, refer to the lies and whitewashing that I pointed out earlier.

You keep referring to children where as I mean people, innocent human beings. The only reason I mentioned the age of the girl was because she was so used to bombing she could identify the type. The point would be that there is a human side to this.

Same point applies. I don't know what you want me to discuss about bombing people. I'm against people being bombed?

You obviously read a number of articles and watch vids with people whose point of view you agree.
I too have read a number of articles but tend to stay away from what I consider the more extreme views and in my opinion have agendas where as I find her informative and explaining.
I don't go out my way to watch Aly in fact doubt that I have watched The Project in full ever. However I am familiar with what he has said in media reports and can understand him if he feels he needs to defend his faith. I don't have any issue with that. Am not familiar with the other two you mentioned.

Yeah I said I don't necessarily agree with the points of view such as those of the reformers, so that has nothing to do with watching videos of views that I agree with. I respect the honesty and the frankness of people who are willing to discuss Islam openly despite where they are coming from. Aly has neither of those, just cheap insincere crowd-pleasing.

The key thing for me is we should never have gotten involved in Howard's war Coalition of the Willing. What a farce.

We can agree on that.

 

[Maggie5]

He refers to IS as nothing to do with Islam. I don't want him to single out Islam, just to stop lying for it.

He is not being measured though, refer to the lies and whitewashing that I pointed out earlier.
Same point applies. I don't know what you want me to discuss about bombing people. I'm against people being bombed?

Yeah I said I don't necessarily agree with the points of view such as those of the reformers, so that has nothing to do with watching videos of views that I agree with. I respect the honesty and the frankness of people who are willing to discuss Islam openly despite where they are coming from. Aly has neither of those, just cheap insincere crowd-pleasing.
We can agree on that.

Think we will have to agree to disagree re Obama as I can see where he is coming from and no point in adding fuel to an already simmering fire.
Daesh are murderous cowards no point in giving them any more ammunition to do more harm.

I don't think it is lying nor whitewashing

 

[JackOutback]

Irrelevant as I'm talking about the denial of the problem, not whether nobody anywhere is criticizing Islam. Think Waleed Aly, Barack Obama, Glenn Greenwald, Reza Aslan, hell even George W. Bush, who consistently and dishonestly portray a flowery version of the faith. These people are not interested in a serious, no-nonsense discussion on Islam in the public sphere.

If you need to hear it from the horse's mouth, here's a great interview of a Muslim, criticizing Islam.





What's to say? I don't think anybody is arguing FOR the destruction of innocent people.

Herein lies the problem; unless people perfectly parrot your point of view, you accuse them of ignoring the problem. Every time there is a terrorist act, people denounce it, acknowledge it is a problem and seek to solve the problem. But you want them to say it's all Islam's fault and the fault of everyone who follows Islam. The problem is not Obama, it's you.

 

[fleabitten]

Herein lies the problem; unless people perfectly parrot your point of view, you accuse them of ignoring the problem. Every time there is a terrorist act, people denounce it, acknowledge it is a problem and seek to solve the problem. But you want them to say it's all Islam's fault and the fault of everyone who follows Islam. The problem is not Obama, it's you.

That's not at all what he's saying. People misread what is being said so often on this forum it's incredible. If you are actually misreading it, rather than deliberately misrepresenting him, that is. Provide the quotes that make you believe he thinks terrorism is all Islam's fault and the fault of every Muslim.

 

[Maggie5]

That's not at all what he's saying. People misread what is being said so often on this forum it's incredible. If you are actually misreading it, rather than deliberately misrepresenting him, that is. Provide the quotes that make you believe he thinks terrorism is all Islam's fault and the fault of every Muslim.

Perhaps you can explain why it is necessary to use the word Islam when condemning terrorism and stating it is a big problem.

 

[Lethality]

But you want them to say it's all Islam's fault and the fault of everyone who follows Islam.

No I don't, so you're just peddling a false narrative here, nothing more.

The problem is not Obama, it's you.

He's not the problem, but whitewashing Islam is part of the problem.

 

[Lethality]

Perhaps you can explain why it is necessary to use the word Islam when condemning terrorism and stating it is a big problem.

If it's Islamic terrorism, then we can call it what it is, and acknowledge the role of the religion in it. First part of solving a problem is acknowledging it. This also steals the thunder from the likes of Trump and the rest of the far right who want to tackle the problem a certain other way.

 

[Maggie5]

If it's Islamic terrorism, then we can call it what it is, and acknowledge the role of the religion in it. First part of solving a problem is acknowledging it. This also steals the thunder from the likes of Trump and the rest of the far right who want to tackle the problem a certain other way.

Then ever time there is a mass shooting or knifing or any situation should we also tell people their religion and ethnic background?
I think it is pretty well understood that the terrorists are using religion as their driving cause. I just don't agree when they are killing their own kind.
Sorry, for me it is about denouncing them and their actions and guarding against them. I just don't see any advantage by adding Islam to the dialogue.
In fact you may as well dare them. You are not dealing with rational people.

 

[Lethality]

Then ever time there is a mass shooting or knifing or any situation should we also tell people their religion and ethnic background?

If the ethnicity or religion is part of the motivation then it's relevant.

I think it is pretty well understood that the terrorists are using religion as their driving cause. I just don't agree when they are killing their own kind.

They don't necessarily think they're killing their own kind, particularly if they don't follow the same type of Islam.

Sorry, for me it is about denouncing them and their actions and guarding against them. I just don't see any advantage by adding Islam to the dialogue.

Facts are important, as are motivations, when discussing terrorism. Why should Islam be exempt?

 

[skilts]

According to the BOM, it's going to rain tomorrow. I'll start apportioning blame then.