Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[twotooto]

I'm generally a leftie (even if some lefties would like me to hand in my leftie card). I think a dislike of Islam is consistent with that. It's an ideology that's pretty much the complete opposite of left-wing values. Homophobic, misogynistic, intolerant of other cultures...baffles me how the modern left-winger is happy seeing their numbers steadily grow here. It's basically a 1.6 billion strong equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church (but with terrorism and beheadings instead of picket signs).

Left here and unlikely to change but I see a problem. The left has to lift it's game imo and do more to support the progressive reformers basically, also this craven scapegoating of whites needs to stop. It's that bad anti white rhetoric has become normalised, it's dehumanising and it's creepy.

Curious what you mean by leftie, in your own words?

 

[Power Raid]

Yep. It's called the Muslim creep (similar to bracket creep) and is just the start of it.

It's funny that the western media never, ever reports on these incidents. I'm sure they would if 20k Muslims were murdered by Hindus or Christians.

It is a fundamental goal of Muslims to convert the entire planet to Islam as confirmed by their ideology. That will be done be either outbreeding the non-believers, converting them or killing them. In 200 years time it is likely that their goal would have been achieved.

I’m anti religion rather than anti Islam but agree with this view.

It’s happened throughout history, where Islam is introduced by force and then dominance through breeding. Christianity was no different.

 

[Opts]

I’m anti religion rather than anti Islam but agree with this view.

It’s happened throughout history, where Islam is introduced by force and then dominance through breeding. Christianity was no different.

I'm an atheist, as I assume you are, but why would you be be anti-religion? I find the idea of believing in a greater being quite ludicrous, however, I respect the rights of others to believe it.

Christianity, Buddism, Jewaism, etc have done nothing to deserve that level of opposition. When was the last time time (within the last century) one of them hijacked a plane and flew it into a building killing 3000 Muslims? Islam on the other hand is open/transparent in its ideology and its believers have shown very clearly what their interpretation of their religion consists of.

 

[fleabitten]

Curious what you mean by leftie, in your own words?

- Voted YES
- Anti-racism (particularly with regard to indigenous peoples and the African diaspora)
- Believe in supporting and caring for the most vulnerable people in society
- Favour the interests of the working class over those of the upper classes
- Environmentalist
- Support the legalization of drugs
- Pro-choice
- Sexually liberated
- Pro multiculturalism...or maybe more like multi-ethnicism, I guess
- Anti-war and anti-guns
- Favour greater income equality

Where I tend to get in trouble with the left is on Islam and modern western feminism (which I think jumped the shark a while back)

 

[JackOutback]

I'm generally a leftie (even if some lefties would like me to hand in my leftie card). I think a dislike of Islam is consistent with that. It's an ideology that's pretty much the complete opposite of left-wing values. Homophobic, misogynistic, intolerant of other cultures...baffles me how the modern left-winger is happy seeing their numbers steadily grow here. It's basically a 1.6 billion strong equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church (but with terrorism and beheadings instead of picket signs).

You're completely misreading the dynamic here. 'Lefties' aren't endorsing fundamentalist Islam, they are rejecting broad based, inchoate bigotry. I don't care for any religion but neither do I care for racist twits tarring millions of people with an inaccurate brush.

 

[twotooto]

- Voted YES
- Anti-racism (particularly with regard to indigenous peoples and the African diaspora)
- Believe in supporting and caring for the most vulnerable people in society
- Favour the interests of the working class over those of the upper classes
- Environmentalist
- Support the legalization of drugs
- Pro-choice
- Sexually liberated
- Pro multiculturalism...or maybe more like multi-ethnicism, I guess
- Anti-war and anti-guns
- Favour greater income equality

Where I tend to get in trouble with the left is on Islam and modern western feminism (which I think jumped the shark a while back)

Thanks for that considered reply, appreciated . I'm about the same and I reckon while a lot of people wouldn't have even thought about where they actually sit on the political spectrum, or care, they would probably be the same on most of those things you listed. Even a lot of the so-called conservatives on this board.

I think it's a valid question because imo, on this board people throw left/right around willy nilly but it seems they have wildly different opinions on definitions.

So they're arguing and they don't even know what they're arguing about! And half of the time they're probably arguing about things they actually agree on. It's hilarious and tragic at the same time.

And so things like social media, MSM, forums like this that derive revenue from clicks(advertising), monetised YouTube channels etc love to fan the flames of this whole left/right thing because, imo, it creates drama, and thus more clicks, more eyeballs and thus more money and in doing so, creates divides that aren't really even there!

 

[Barry Roundhouse]

Thanks for that considered reply, appreciated . I'm about the same and I reckon while a lot of people wouldn't have even thought about where they actually sit on the political spectrum, or care, they would probably be the same on most of those things you listed. Even a lot of the so-called conservatives on this board.

I think it's a valid question because imo, on this board people throw left/right around willy nilly but it seems they have wildly different opinions on definitions.

So they're arguing and they don't even know what they're arguing about! And half of the time they're probably arguing about things they actually agree on. It's hilarious and tragic at the same time.

It's so combative. On both sides, yiu see people dig their heels in and tow some imaginary party line, purely because an issue is supposibly on their side of the fence.

 

[twotooto]

It's so combative. On both sides, yiu see people dig their heels in and tow some imaginary party line, purely because an issue is supposibly on their side of the fence.

Exactly!

 

[fleabitten]

You're completely misreading the dynamic here. 'Lefties' aren't endorsing fundamentalist Islam, they are rejecting broad based, inchoate bigotry. I don't care for any religion but neither do I care for racist twits tarring millions of people with an inaccurate brush.

I don't tar every Muslim with anything. I don't have any problem with cultural Muslims who don't really believe any of the hateful s**t their religion preaches. i can understand how hard it is to ditch a religion when there are people who believe that's a crime worthy of death. I have a childhood friend who converted before marrying a Pakistani and I'm still cool with her. I don't abuse or harass individual Muslims. I just think their religion is evil and the more into it they are, the more likely they are to be a campaigner. I honestly don't think I've ever targeted a Muslim just for being a Muslim. It's either criticism of the religion itself, or of individuals who reveal their beliefs to be in line with the uglier aspects of the religion (which is most of it).

 

[fleabitten]

Thanks for that considered reply, appreciated . I'm about the same and I reckon while a lot of people wouldn't have even thought about where they actually sit on the political spectrum, or care, they would probably be the same on most of those things you listed. Even a lot of the so-called conservatives on this board.

I think it's a valid question because imo, on this board people throw left/right around willy nilly but it seems they have wildly different opinions on definitions.

So they're arguing and they don't even know what they're arguing about! And half of the time they're probably arguing about things they actually agree on. It's hilarious and tragic at the same time.

And so things like social media, MSM, forums like this that derive revenue from clicks(advertising), monetised YouTube channels etc love to fan the flames of this whole left/right thing because, imo, it creates drama, and thus more clicks, more eyeballs and thus more money and in doing so, perpetuates divides that aren't really even there!

Yeah i don't even really like using left/right anymore, but i do feel that I need to report my position on the political spectrum sometimes because otherwise it's assumed you're alt-right or whatever just because you're not in line with the majority on a particular issue.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

- Voted YES
- Anti-racism (particularly with regard to indigenous peoples and the African diaspora)
- Believe in supporting and caring for the most vulnerable people in society
- Favour the interests of the working class over those of the upper classes
- Environmentalist
- Support the legalization of drugs
- Pro-choice
- Sexually liberated
- Pro multiculturalism...or maybe more like multi-ethnicism, I guess
- Anti-war and anti-guns
- Favour greater income equality

Where I tend to get in trouble with the left is on Islam and modern western feminism (which I think jumped the shark a while back)

Do they get to choose which ones they are on board with or is it "in for one, in for it all"
For example , i can't see why there wouldn't be racists who support the environment or people who support income equality ( unionists ?) who say "* the environment "

oh its a stereotype.

 

[King Brown]

You're completely misreading the dynamic here. 'Lefties' aren't endorsing fundamentalist Islam, they are rejecting broad based, inchoate bigotry. I don't care for any religion but neither do I care for racist twits tarring millions of people with an inaccurate brush.

Why shouldn’t people be held accountable for their beliefs?

 

[Power Raid]

I'm an atheist, as I assume you are, but why would you be be anti-religion? I find the idea of believing in a greater being quite ludicrous, however, I respect the rights of others to believe it.

Christianity, Buddism, Jewaism, etc have done nothing to deserve that level of opposition. When was the last time time (within the last century) one of them hijacked a plane and flew it into a building killing 3000 Muslims? Islam on the other hand is open/transparent in its ideology and its believers have shown very clearly what their interpretation of their religion consists of.

I have no issue with religious people or any individuals beliefs but I can't warm to any religion.

I love the community aspect of religion and if that is all it was, I'd love it. Religion can provide structure and routine to community gatherings, an excuse to celebrate (christmas, easter) and the support in times of need (ie death and divorce). My best mate turned to buhddism after his divorce and clearly not only helped him through tough times but probably helped him become a better person. They also have great schools in Australia and force the state education system to improve through shame. So I guess I'm not all negative.

On the flip side, the reality is religion ruins more lives around the world than those that it enriches. Religion is not peaceful, it is controlling, it's enslaving, it's not generous, it's brainwashing and it mobilises the masses to do horrible things. It has to be these things as the product it sells is hope and hope is something you only need when you are not in control or desperate. Thus religion needs to keep people down to maintain the demand for their product.

It also attracts wolves, who prey on the vulnerable sheep who let their guard down (ie rooting kids but that's a different issue I guess).


Christianity is by far the enemy of the people in the Philippines. Islam is definitely the enemy of the people of Indonesia. Which religion is worse out of those two religions based Indo and the Philippines? Geez, that's a tough call and one I can't answer. For that reason, I can't say I'm comfortable with any religion.

 

[fleabitten]

Do they get to choose which ones they are on board with or is it "in for one, in for it all"
For example , i can't see why there wouldn't be racists who support the environment or people who support income equality ( unionists ?) who say "**** the environment "

oh its a stereotype.

I think we should all follow our own reasoning and conscience to come up with our opinions. It's natural for a person to mostly fall on one "wing" or the other, but people who can think for themselves will probably have some "stray" opinions. As twotooto pointed out, a lot of beliefs that are traditionally left-wing are these days pretty mainstream and holding them doesn't necessarily mean that you're "in for one, in it for all" with the left.

 

[JackOutback]

Why shouldn’t people be held accountable for their beliefs?

They should, but judging Muslims by ISIS standards is akin to judging every Christian by the Old Testament. Likely the majority of Muslims in Australia are ordinary people living their lives.

 

[Total Power]

They should, but judging Muslims by ISIS standards is akin to judging every Christian by the Old Testament. Likely the majority of Muslims in Australia are ordinary people living their lives.

You are ofcourse correct, however if you are unfortunate enough to talk their religion down in certain countries you can end up in serious trouble. I am speaking from experience, had a narrow escape when i didn't even insult anyone but just said i don;t believe in fairy tales!

 

[Scallop Industry Thug]

"If islams keep breeding and taking over, soon they will be able to bring in the regressive laws I agree with"- the right.

 

[fleabitten]

"islams are great and exactly like the white people i hate" - the regressive left

There are massive hypocrites on both sides.

 

[Opts]

You're completely misreading the dynamic here. 'Lefties' aren't endorsing fundamentalist Islam, they are rejecting broad based, inchoate bigotry. I don't care for any religion but neither do I care for racist twits tarring millions of people with an inaccurate brush.

Lefties keep saying that but no-one is "tarring millions of people with an inaccurate brush". We're saying that this group of people is more inclined to do something or more inclined to behave in a certain way. This is a fact. Many Muslims want to kill us, convert our society and/or emotionally or financially support those who hold these beliefs. This percentage might only be say 10% but that's still a very high number. We don't know who those 10% are and they look just like the other 90%. No other demographic wants to do this and I'd be saying exactly the same thing about Christians if 10% of them wanted to do this. Lefties on the other hand say that we aren't allowed form these opinions (or profiling) and we have to treat all Muslims as though they are the 90%. The left don't want us to protect ourselves from that 10%.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

What concerns me about Islam, is that there seems to be a prevalent undertone, that their own religious rules are what really matter, and they pay lip service to our national laws.

For example:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-...ches-domestic-violence-michaelia-cash/8442708


"We firmly refuse them their demand of interrogating Islam for they are in no position to lecture anyone on women or violence."
-------------------------
This sort of failure to recognise the authority of the laws of Australia really just makes me angry ,and my initial gut reaction is to scream "take your bloody crap religion and get the hell out " at them.

I'm not alone, and there are hate groups around who capitalise on the anger. I suspect its this sort of cultural arrogance that causes a lot of violence against Muslems around the world.

 

[King Brown]

They should, but judging Muslims by ISIS standards is akin to judging every Christian by the Old Testament. Likely the majority of Muslims in Australia are ordinary people living their lives.

We're not judging them by ISIS standards, we're judging them by the standards of say, how 20,000 Bangladeshis burned down a village because they heard a kid insulted Muhammad. Or the fact that every electorate with a large Islamic community voted NO in the SSM survey. Or that major Islamic communities across the world practice consanguineous marriage, which results in daughters being forced to marry their uncles, and horrific genetic consequences.

But you won't have a bar of that - it's only ISIS and good Muslims in your framing of the Islamic world.

 

[Werewolf]

You are ofcourse correct, however if you are unfortunate enough to talk their religion down in certain countries you can end up in serious trouble. I am speaking from experience, had a narrow escape when i didn't even insult anyone but just said i don;t believe in fairy tales!

Which country was that in TP? How did you get out of that?

 

[Total Power]

Which country was that in TP? How did you get out of that?

India, i do quite a lot of work in India, due to our production facility being there. In some Indian states Islam is on steroids, i am not kidding either, they hate everything that is Hinduism and wants full Islamic law there. Being naive about several things i made a joke about religion in a restaurant that wasn't taken kindly. (the joke was about eating beef, and i said who cares Muslims don't eat pork cause they believe in their fairy tale) Apparently India has blasphemy laws in place, which i wasn't aware of, but this was bigger than that. Apparently i am intolerant, bigot and demon possessed atheist who must be shown the right way of life by calling their local Imam. I was fully aware of the fact that "local imam" there is not just your ordinary imam, must be a wahabbist * with a lot of control over many things. Fortunately, my business partner said i am new here and i wasnt aware of the cultural sensitivities and asked me to apologise which i did reluctantly. They were still going on about how i should read the Quran and try to correct myself and walk the right path. Never again!

 

[fleabitten]

What concerns me about Islam, is that there seems to be a prevalent undertone, that their own religious rules are what really matter, and they pay lip service to our national laws.

For example:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-04-...ches-domestic-violence-michaelia-cash/8442708


"We firmly refuse them their demand of interrogating Islam for they are in no position to lecture anyone on women or violence."
-------------------------
This sort of failure to recognise the authority of the laws of Australia really just makes me angry ,and my initial gut reaction is to scream "take your bloody crap religion and get the hell out " at them.

I'm not alone, and there are hate groups around who capitalise on the anger. I suspect its this sort of cultural arrogance that causes a lot of violence against Muslems around the world.

Good old Hizb ut-Tahrir.

https://www.counterextremism.com/threat/hizb-ut-tahrir

Evil and dangerous group that should be thrown straight into the sea, but still somehow manage to play victim. Fitting that their leader in Australia is named al-Wahwah. Over 27,000 likers of their Australian division's facebook page.

 

[The Passenger]

I just think their religion is evil and the more into it they are, the more likely they are to be a campaigner.

The same could be said of just about any religion. The sexist and homophobic views of deeply religious people are totally abhorrent.

The vast majority of religious people fall into a moderate spectrum (which I still disagree with their view anyway).

You mentioned when was the last time a Christian flew a plane into a building, which is a fair point, and there is no doubt the muslim world has a problem with extremism and one which needs to be combated.

Do you not think the moderate muslim population would see the same extremism from the western world... For instance American led coalitions have been bombing middle eastern territory under dubious pretence for well over a decade now. Whenever the American president makes a televised statement he signs off with the phrase "God Bless America", and the currency has "In God We Trust" on every note. If you don't believe in that god would you not see this as the same religious extremism as a non-muslim sees someone screaming "alu akbar" as they drive through London trying to run someone over....

Fair play if you judge each person on their merits, as I'd like to think I do. But we all know so many people don't do that - A muslim person runs down 6 people in London and every muslim household in western sydney is apparently to blame.