Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

fleabitten

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Maleness isn't an ideology, so it's a pretty dumb and useless comparison.

What do we think about Catholics who are silent on pedo priests? I think they are complicit in child rape. Either abandon your rotten religion or loudly condemn the evil being done in your name. Same goes for Muslims.

I don't think I belong to any ideological group. The closest is probably "Richmond supporter". If I hear about a Richmond supporter doing something horrible (like a certain high profile pedo priest), I'll tell anyone that that person does not represent me and that I find their actions disgusting. And it's not even like there's a holy book of Richmond that might actually encourage the horrible acts like there is with Islam.
 

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Yes, they kind of do.

See also: Me too.
Ah so now we get to see Malifice is nothing more than a bald faced liar when it suits. The majority of men do not waiver in their hatred of rapists as you purport. That's an outright lie. You stating lies does not make them true Maliface, even in your privileged position.

We try that, but then MRM, right wingers and other nut jobs on the Right accuse us of virtue signalling, and being 'cucks'.
Another outright lie. No majority group accuses you of virtue signalling and "cucks" as you call it when decrying rape. Once again Maliface, you stating outright lies, does not make them true. It's really a terrible reflection on quality of argument and possibly the person making such lame and dishonest statements in a sheer attempt to continue or win an argument at any cost. At the crux of it, you're still dishonest.

It turns out you are probably not worth arguing with really Malifice. Resorting to outright lies and falsity should be beneath a quality mod. I don't believe Chief should be that desperate for content.

Deflecting from the actual researched and educated answer in the video by attempting to turn a genuine Muslim issue into another issue of your fantasy is really an abuse of your position and the inordinate amount of time and re-post abilities you have to simply keep deflecting from the actual topic of the thread.
I suggest you re-watch the researched and educated video again yourself and try to be honest and on topic if you're capable.

 
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Jello_B

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Men are statistically far more likely than women to perform rapes, mass killings, domestic violence and murder.

Are the peaceful majority (those of us Men that don't go around mass killing, raping etc) equally at fault for the actions of the mass killers, rapists etc? Would that be a fair point to make?

Like; re-watch that video. Imagine it was a 'Leftist' panel of feminists etc harping on about DV, rape, Me-too, and hanging shit on men.

Now imagine a (nice) bloke stood up and said 'But I'm not one of those DV rapists, Im a nice guy. Not all men are like that.'

And imagine your outrage when that bloke got shot down and lumped in with all the mass killers, rapists and DV ****-heads of the world. Simply on account of being a man, he's no different to the rapists and mass killers.

You cant say the majority of blokes who are NOT rapists, sexists, misogynists, mass killers etc are equally at fault for the minority that are can you?

I mean; I suppose you can. But that puts you in the same camp as Clementine Ford and co.
You still peddling this crap?
 
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How is a woman found guilty of adultery if it requires four male witnesses for the charge to stick?
Because she admitted the sexual intercourse occurred when she complained about the rape.

If she wasn't raped (he's acquitted of having sex with her against her will), then shes an adulterer.

No need for 4 witnesses seeing as she admitted the sexual intercourse happened already. Its conceded; the only element to prove is consent.

Her: This man raped me!. He took me down an alley and had sex with me against my will.
Him: She wanted it. I never raped her. It was consensual.
 
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The majority of men do not waiver in their hatred of rapists as you purport.
And the majority of Muslims do not waiver in their hatred of ISIS and the sex slavery and murder they engage in:

1552310028491.png


So why are we supposed to go after all those Muslims (who hate ISIS and similar terror groups, are opposed to them, and are the main victims of them) yet Men get a free ride over the mass murders and rapes their cohort carry out all the time?

Why is it OK to tar all Muslims with the crimes of ISIS and Al Queda and the Taliban, but its not OK to tar all Men with the actions off Male violence, rape and mass killings?
 

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Err Pakistan. Where do you think most of the muslims in the UK originate from?

Id take a break from this thread if I was you Mal.
Im not saying it's not a problem mate.

That said, just because nine percent of Pakistanis support IS (probably predominately Pashtuns who also supported the Taliban) probably doesnt translate into 9 percent of British Pakistanis supporting IS (however there is no doubt still an alarmingly high number who do).

600 out of 1.2 million British Pakistanis fighting for ISIS is 600 too many, but it's still a very small number. Im sure you know a few British Pakistanis Meds (I do) and they all pretty thoroughly repudiate ISIS (anecdotal as it may be).

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wo...lims-are-fighting-for-ISIL-than-the-Army.html

Did you read the article you linked above (from the Telegraph no less). It pretty clearly states that the problem you're describing comes from lack of integration (both from the broader British community, and the Pakistani community).

Im not sure how calls to persecute Muslims by enacting special laws against them, labeling them all rapists and terrorists etc helps with integration.
 
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The British Army has roughly 108,500 serving soldiers out of a population of 61 million.

480 of them are Pakistani from a population of nearly 1.2 million. Pro-rata that's around 25 percent that of the average for all ethnic backgrounds.

Underrepresented for sure, but that mirrors a pretty similar trend with migrants everywhere (they tend to be reluctant to join the new nations military).

I dont recall too many Asian soldiers in the Australian military, or even for that matter Southern Europeans (Greeks and Italians).
 

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Maleness isn't an ideology, so it's a pretty dumb and useless comparison.
Toxic masculinity is. Seriously, what is 'maleness'? What is 'masculinity' if not learned behavior (like any other) and an ideology.

Girls play with dolls, boys with toy guns. The action hero resolves his problems with mass killings and violence, then gets the woman. Men in power abuse that power (Me-too). 'Be a man'. 'Man up.' 'Are you a man, or a mouse' etc etc etc. We're taught (and immersed) in that paradigm since birth.

You're surrounded by an ideology that promotes masculinity as being associated (and intertwined) with violence, power, dominance and status. One giant patriarchy with entrenched sexism and toxic masculinity.

**** me, look at the NRL at the moment. Look anywhere. Hollywood. Me Too. The Liberal party. Random streets of our cities where women are getting murdered every week (one recent victim even had a MRM activist going to the site of the womans rape and murder to protest persecution of men). Trumps 'grab them by the pussy'. Right wingers calling anyone who isnt an ardent supporter of toxic masculinity 'cucks'. The glass ceiling. DV rates etc. Mansplaining. It's everywhere.

Men are the victims of this shit as well. Suicide rates, mental health, wars (we wind up fighting them).

You can fob that shit off as 'biology' all you want, but it's as much nurture as it is nature (if not more the former). You cant argue that sexism (and it's effects) isnt entrenched in our society.
 

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Because she admitted the sexual intercourse occurred when she complained about the rape.

If she wasn't raped (he's acquitted of having sex with her against her will), then shes an adulterer.

No need for 4 witnesses seeing as she admitted the sexual intercourse happened already. Its conceded; the only element to prove is consent.

Her: This man raped me!. He took me down an alley and had sex with me against my will.
Him: She wanted it. I never raped her. It was consensual.
Thank you for making my point about the backwards nature of Islamic culture.
 

fleabitten

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Toxic masculinity is. Seriously, what is 'maleness'? What is 'masculinity' if not learned behavior (like any other) and an ideology.

Girls play with dolls, boys with toy guns. The action hero resolves his problems with mass killings and violence, then gets the woman. Men in power abuse that power (Me-too). 'Be a man'. 'Man up.' 'Are you a man, or a mouse' etc etc etc. We're taught (and immersed) in that paradigm since birth.

You're surrounded by an ideology that promotes masculinity as being associated (and intertwined) with violence, power, dominance and status. One giant patriarchy with entrenched sexism and toxic masculinity.

**** me, look at the NRL at the moment. Look anywhere. Hollywood. Me Too. The Liberal party. Random streets of our cities where women are getting murdered every week (one recent victim even had a MRM activist going to the site of the womans rape and murder to protest persecution of men). Trumps 'grab them by the pussy'. Right wingers calling anyone who isnt an ardent supporter of toxic masculinity 'cucks'. The glass ceiling. DV rates etc. Mansplaining. It's everywhere.

Men are the victims of this shit as well. Suicide rates, mental health, wars (we wind up fighting them).

You can fob that shit off as 'biology' all you want, but it's as much nurture as it is nature (if not more the former). You cant argue that sexism (and it's effects) isnt entrenched in our society.
What are you going on about? A person can at any moment decide they no longer wish to associate with their religion. That's not really possible with your gender or your race, so to assign collective guilt is different in that case. It's sexism or racism.

A person can opt out of Catholicism whenever they want. If they choose to remain Catholic while priests are raping kids left, right and centre, and they refuse to condemn those priests, then they are part of the problem.
 

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Try again.

You need 4 witnesses to prove 'Adultery' (that a chaste woman has had sex outside of marriage). You need 4 independent male witnesses to her sleeping around (making it hard to prove). There is general consensus this requirement was put in place to protect women from false accusations of infidelity and extra-marital sex.

You dont need 4 witnesses to prove Rape. The Quran is pretty clear on this; it's a different offence. Mohammed himself conducted a trial of a rapist in the Quran without any witnesses, and only the victims word and circumstantial evidence.

The issue is that women are too scared to report rape, for fear that they'll be found guilty of adultery (i.e. she reports being raped, but the perpetrator is found not guilty of rape, making the sex 'consensual' and she winds up copping 100 lashes seeing as she has already admitted to sexual intercourse with the perpetrator).

As for taking it seriously, the penalty for Rape in the Quran is death by stoning, which is pretty ******* serious.

Im not justifying any of the above by the way. Criminalizing adultery (with a corporal punishment of 100 lashes if convicted) and imposing the death penalty for rape is not something I agree with. In fact I oppose both fully.
Stoning is not prescribed as the punishment for anything in the Quran.

Neither does the Quran say you need four 'male' witnesses to prove fornication. They can be male or female.
 
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Stoning is not prescribed as the punishment for anything in the Quran.

Neither does the Quran say you need four 'male' witnesses to prove fornication. They can be male or female.
Pretty messed up if your 21st century law is based on 2000 year old writing.
Imagine learning physics or astronomy from a 2000 year old book.
Basing laws on old scriptures is just dumb. Please try to justify otherwise.
 

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Pretty messed up if your 21st century law is based on 2000 year old writing.
Imagine learning physics or astronomy from a 2000 year old book.
Basing laws on old scriptures is just dumb. Please try to justify otherwise.
To those who believe in said scriptures, those laws are eternal.

And I wouldn't go around calling other people's beliefs dumb considering some of your posts in this thread.
 

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What are you going on about? A person can at any moment decide they no longer wish to associate with their religion. That's not really possible with your gender or your race, so to assign collective guilt is different in that case. It's sexism or racism.

A person can opt out of Catholicism whenever they want. If they choose to remain Catholic while priests are raping kids left, right and centre, and they refuse to condemn those priests, then they are part of the problem.
The broader point is that nowhere in the catechism or bible is there anywhere that recommends pederasty for clergy, yet that is part of the institutional culture of the Catholic Church.

Arguing that your charitable interpretation of the Koran means that regressive views on rape in Islamic cultures isn’t cultural is quite a leap.
 

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Because she admitted the sexual intercourse occurred when she complained about the rape.

If she wasn't raped (he's acquitted of having sex with her against her will), then shes an adulterer.

No need for 4 witnesses seeing as she admitted the sexual intercourse happened already. Its conceded; the only element to prove is consent.

Her: This man raped me!. He took me down an alley and had sex with me against my will.
Him: She wanted it. I never raped her. It was consensual.
Punishing a rape victim when there is a lack of evidence to prove the offence is not supported by the Quran. It cannot come under the category 'adultery/fornication' if it was against one's will.
 

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Punishing a rape victim when there is a lack of evidence to prove the offence is not supported by the Quran. It cannot come under the category 'adultery/fornication' if it was against one's will.
Lets say I’m accused of rape, but I get four of my bros to attest to the victim actually being a harlot and a temptress who seduced me into committing adultery. How does Islamic jurisprudence resolve this?
 

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Lets say I’m accused of rape, but I get four of my bros to attest to the victim actually being a harlot and a temptress who seduced me into committing adultery. How does Islamic jurisprudence resolve this?
The courts will obviously have to consider the nature of the relationship of the witnesses to the accused and whether it would be a just outcome to rule based on their testimony. There is nothing preventing the law from applying scrutiny to witness testimonies. The aim is to be fair and just.

A few verses from the Quran:

"O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted" (Quran 4:135)

“O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty" (quran 5:8)

"For Allah loves those who are fair" (49:9)

Also just a general note regarding witness testimonies for adultery/fornication, unless the witnesses actually saw you engage in said sexual activity, you cannot be found guilty. Are your witnesses saying that you and the victim had consensual sex in front of them? It is irrelevant if you were seduced you are meant to be strong enough in your faith to not be led astray.
 

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The courts will obviously have to consider the nature of the relationship of the witnesses to the accused and whether it would be a just outcome to rule based on their testimony. There is nothing preventing the law from applying scrutiny to witness testimonies. The aim is to be fair and just.

A few verses from the Quran:

"O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah, even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted" (Quran 4:135)

“O ye who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for Allah in equity, and let not hatred of any people seduce you that ye deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty" (quran 5:8)

"For Allah loves those who are fair" (49:9)

Also just a general note regarding witness testimonies for adultery/fornication, unless the witnesses actually saw you engage in said sexual activity, you cannot be found guilty. Are your witnesses saying that you and the victim had consensual sex in front of them? It is irrelevant if you were seduced you are meant to be strong enough in your faith to not be led astray.
This doesn’t answer the question. Let’s say the courts find the witnesses credible. What happens to the victim?
 

JackOutback

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What are you going on about? A person can at any moment decide they no longer wish to associate with their religion. That's not really possible with your gender or your race, so to assign collective guilt is different in that case. It's sexism or racism.

A person can opt out of Catholicism whenever they want. If they choose to remain Catholic while priests are raping kids left, right and centre, and they refuse to condemn those priests, then they are part of the problem.
You’ve missed his point; you may not be able to opt out of being male (note: you can now) but you absolutely can opt out of the idea of what is supposed to be masculine.
 

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You’ve missed his point; you may not be able to opt out of being male (note: you can now) but you absolutely can opt out of the idea of what is supposed to be masculine.
Nowhere is the idea of what it is to be masculine written down as law or scripture, therefore criticisms of "toxic" masculine culture are incorrect.

Also, lol at cutting your junk off being floated as an option for solving toxic masculinity. The ultimate purity, bring back eunuch courtiers!
 

JackOutback

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Nowhere is the idea of what it is to be masculine written down as law or scripture, therefore criticisms of "toxic" masculine culture are incorrect.

Also, lol at cutting your junk off being floated as an option for solving toxic masculinity. The ultimate purity, bring back eunuch courtiers!
I agree it’s not a codified ideology but you’re kidding yourself if you don’t think there’s plenty of examples of it in print, screen and culture being passed down.
 
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