Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

Kwality

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Ah, the old ‘if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear’ argument. As Snowden said, it’s as intellectually rigorous as saying we don’t need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.
Yep, not an argument for me, its transparent. I can change my mind without concern, unlike most of the PC army.
More specific to Islam here in Australia, many/most Muslims disown violence.
 

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ferball

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Being a suspect isn't committing a crime.
I've long said that the cops should investigate anyone who has a Ferrari/Lambourghini/McClaren etc registered.

- Has a filthy rich dad .... No suspicion.
- Has a successful ( for the time being ) marketing company. ...No suspicion.
- Lives in Cranbourne, 27 years old, with only tenuous ties to legitimate business activities. .....hmmmmm

At this point it can't be said that any of them have committed a crime, and driving the Ferrari is hardly committing a crime.
Why?
 

Kwality

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So you want to live in a police state?

There are some disturbing posts in this thread.
Be honest, authorities can know everything about you now, unless you run to an alias, no bank account, no credit card, no phone ... IF you need to hide something you need to work bloody hard to do it, if it needs to be fair dinkum & you've got to be off the radar.
Take the earlier comment about buyers of expensive sportys, reckon the tax man might have a list of sales of all say Lambo's, 134 for last year.
 
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ferball

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Be honest, authorities can know everything about you now, unless you run to an alias, no bank account, no credit card, no phone ... IF you need to hide something you need to work bloody hard to do it, if it needs to be fair dinkum & you've got to be off the radar.
Take the earlier comment about buyers of expensive sportys, reckon the tax man might have a list of sales of all say Lambo's, 134 for last year.
There is a difference between legally data matching between govt departments (even tho its a bit much in itself) and actively invstigating people for legal recreational purchases. Especially on the basis of your social class. If you live in the wrong suburb and buy a car that's not for your sort of person the cops can start watching you.:oops:

That's essentially what SaintsSeptember said.

And about your point - "crime prevention trumps crime investigation" - sure but only within really strict limits. (We can argue about them some other day maybe.) We live in a society that holds the presumption of innocence as a fundamental legal principle. That means unless knowledge of a crime is brought to the attention of the authorities they don't go investigating people. The GWoT has certainly put that idea under stress but we haven't chosen to abandon it in the face of terrorism. That would be letting the terrorists win.

Crime prevention by trawling thru data and investigating people on the basis of their behaviour not the report of a crime goes directly against this principle.

It might be necessary in the face of an existential threat under certain supervision (tho I don't think so) - certainly that's the yarn we were sold re anti terror legislation. But over the 1000 year history of the legal system we live under we've moved away from it as a wholesale policy on the basis that its antithetical to a free society.

Ideas like that one you mentioned here:

Crime prevention trumps crime investigation IMHO. No problem if any Authority held that info on me OR anyone I know.
Are dangerous because they are a threat to a free society. A fundamental threat to it on a meta level if you like because they undermine ideas like the presumption of innocence.

Wayne Kerr can bang on about the dangers of Sharia Law to our society and way of life till the cows fall from the sky but ideas like the one you promote have threatened our way of life and free society for as long as people have spouted them.

Frankly they don't belong in a civilised discussion about a free nation like Australia.
 

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There is a difference between legally data matching between govt departments (even tho its a bit much in itself) and actively invstigating people for legal recreational purchases. Especially on the basis of your social class. If you live in the wrong suburb and buy a car that's not for your sort of person the cops can start watching you.:oops:

That's essentially what SaintsSeptember said.

And about your point - "crime prevention trumps crime investigation" - sure but only within really strict limits. (We can argue about them some other day maybe.) We live in a society that holds the presumption of innocence as a fundamental legal principle. That means unless knowledge of a crime is brought to the attention of the authorities they don't go investigating people. The GWoT has certainly put that idea under stress but we haven't chosen to abandon it in the face of terrorism. That would be letting the terrorists win.

Crime prevention by trawling thru data and investigating people on the basis of their behaviour not the report of a crime goes directly against this principle.

It might be necessary in the face of an existential threat under certain supervision (tho I don't think so) - certainly that's the yarn we were sold re anti terror legislation. But over the 1000 year history of the legal system we live under we've moved away from it as a wholesale policy on the basis that its antithetical to a free society.

Ideas like that one you mentioned here:



Are dangerous because they are a threat to a free society. A fundamental threat to it on a meta level if you like because they undermine ideas like the presumption of innocence.

Wayne Kerr can bang on about the dangers of Sharia Law to our society and way of life till the cows fall from the sky but ideas like the one you promote have threatened our way of life and free society for as long as people have spouted them.

Frankly they don't belong in a civilised discussion about a free nation like Australia.
The argument is illiberalism wins in the long run. Medieval sharia or surveillance capitalism: choose one.
 
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Is there a way I can express my views on Islam without being banned or getting attention from the powers on this site.

Mohamed the Prophet married a nine year old Aisha. Not only is this morally wrong, but she is NINE YEARS OLD, this is rape and pedophilia. It’s disgusting and unacceptable
 

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CM86

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Is there a way I can express my views on Islam without being banned or getting attention from the powers on this site.
Yep. Do it legitimately. **** Islam.
Mohamed the Prophet married a nine year old Aisha. Not only is this morally wrong, but she is NINE YEARS OLD, this is rape and pedophilia. It’s disgusting and unacceptable
Disgusting.
What do you think about the recently convicted George Pell?
 

Echoes

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Is there a way I can express my views on Islam without being banned or getting attention from the powers on this site.

Mohamed the Prophet married a nine year old Aisha. Not only is this morally wrong, but she is NINE YEARS OLD, this is rape and pedophilia. It’s disgusting and unacceptable
Short answer?

It would appear the serious answer is no.
 
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Short answer?

It would appear the serious answer is no.
Potentially you may be right from what I've read. I'd still feel comfortable suggesting that Islam Extremist have killed more than "other" extremists in recent times. (How we fit government sanctioned actions in here I'm not too sure)

I'm sure there was a CBS News article stating in the 80k+ mark from a few years ago based on research by an institute Tony Blair heads up/is the figure head of.
 
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Yep. Do it legitimately. **** Islam.
Disgusting.
What do you think about the recently convicted George Pell?
It’s a religion that oppresses woman, promotes genital mutilation and is one where in court a woman’s testimony is half that of a mans.

It is unacceptable

As for Pell, typical Australia, soft sentencing. I’m waiting for Alan Jones to done for pedophilia
 

Echoes

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Potentially you may be right from what I've read. I'd still feel comfortable suggesting that Islam Extremist have killed more than "other" extremists in recent times. (How we fit government sanctioned actions in here I'm not too sure)

I'm sure there was a CBS News article stating in the 80k+ mark from a few years ago based on research by an institute Tony Blair heads up/is the figure head of.
I have the feeling even discussing Islam around here, is a bit like discussing Voldemort around Hogwarts.

You just don’t do it.
 

CM86

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Short answer?

It would appear the serious answer is no.
Sorry for upsetting you. I thought this was a serious and non-discriminate view you held.

You're right... you've never mentioned Pell. I tagged you in that thread because I thought it was important to you. Sorry.
 
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