Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

Tayl0r

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Do 'the workers' in Cuba, Korea, the former USSR etc control anything, or is everything controlled by a unitary party totalitarian State, often against the wishes and will of the workers?
This is where the truth of heavy government redistribution plans comes out. It's not about the people, it's about getting a small group into power with the support of people who think they are being represented.
 

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AbrahamS

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Islamophobia is a bulls**t term with the term coming from the Muslim Brotherhood to stifle political discussion, and somehow to conflate a dislike or criticism of Islam as a religion or ideology with the hate or dislike of Muslims as people.

I can't see why someone cannot oppose Islam or Islamism without being described as a hater of Muslims. People don't hate Catholics if they criticise the inner-workings of the Catholic Church for whatever reason, if that's because of child abuse cases or tax-exempt reasons for example.

It seems to imply that people have an irrational fear of Islam when in reality most just dislike it but don't fear it.

I'd rather hear all sides on this. For what it's worth, I think heading down a path of banning Muslim immigration into Australia completely would be dangerous for various reasons, but if we silence one side of the argument who have valid concerns we will go around in circles and get nowhere on this issue.

Frankly, I'm sick and tired of people being called "racists" and "Islamophobes" very loosely and shutting down any chance of a sensible political discussion because a few people are offended.
#OurDiversityisourStrength
 

SaintsSeptember

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They want you to be tolerant of their intolerant oppressive and violent religion - it's hard not to laugh. The problem is the Media actually thinks it makes sense - if we just keep supporting and giving love to Muslims they will suddenly embrace homosexuality, let women work and do what they wish and stop blowing each other up. Yep...
Yet they can't even tolerate those who have slightly different views of their same religion.
 

SaintsSeptember

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The term Islamophobic and its use is arrogant , in that it insinuates that any criticism is borne out of fear.

If i think its stupid to practice barbaric 2000 year old customs, that is not necessarily from fear.

Its not racist to criticize muoslems.
I can criticize Asians, and it IS racist. They can't change the fact that they are Asian.
Sorry you Muslem folk, its completely within your power to follow more rational philosophy, and its ok for people to try to convince you of that.
You are free to debate with them, but don't act as if you've been wronged because everyone doesn't agree with you.
 

Malifice

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It's not about the people, it's about getting a small group into power with the support of people who think they are being represented.
Working class/ suburban Right wingers have been voting in Conservative governments for years. Howard, Abbott, Trump etc, thinking those parties represent their interests (when they dont).

As soon as those Right wing governments come into power, its Knighthoods for the already wealthy and privileged, stripping welfare off the poor, Workchoices for the idiots that voted them in, tax cuts for the rich, Medicare hikes (or erosion), and sending those very same suburban and working class people off to war (so the wealthy can make an extra hundred billion a year off the oil dollars) and so forth.

I know you're a conservative, but if you get the chance read Michael Moores 'Stupid White Men'. It deals with this phenomenon in a chapter (why do Working class people vote for governments that do not have their interests in mind and will actively legislate against them).

His reasoning is those people vote in parties that favor the wealthy end of town, based on the (false) belief that one day they'll have their place at the table (which of course, they wont).

The corollary among the left is the 'latte/ limousine liberal' - traditionally white, upper class, educated and white collar professionals who vote in governments who increase welfare and their own tax burden (legislate against their interests).

Im probably one of them. At least we know we're doing it. We're just acutely aware of how huge the privilege being born white, male, educated and Australian is (I earn more per fortnight than most people elsewhere in the world earn in a year). I consider myself extremely lucky. I've worked hard, but Im more than happy for those that have less than I do, or dont have the same opportunities I do, to get a little extra to help them out.
 
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Steinfreo

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Working class/ suburban Right wingers have been voting in Conservative governments for years. Howard, Abbott, Trump etc, thinking those parties represent their interests (when they dont).

As soon as those Right wing governments come into power, its Knighthoods for the already wealthy and privileged, stripping welfare off the poor, Workchoices for the idiots that voted them in, tax cuts for the rich, Medicare hikes (or erosion), and sending those very same suburban and working class people off to war (so the wealthy can make an extra hundred billion a year off the oil dollars) and so forth.

I know you're a conservative, but if you get the chance read Michael Moores 'Stupid White Men'. It deals with this phenomenon in a chapter (why do Working class people vote for governments that do not have their interests in mind and will actively legislate against them).

His reasoning is those people vote in parties that favor the wealthy end of town, based on the (false) belief that one day they'll have their place at the table (which of course, they wont).

The corollary among the left is the 'latte/ limousine liberal' - traditionally white, upper class, educated and white collar professionals who vote in governments who increase welfare and their own tax burden (legislate against their interests).

Im probably one of them. At least we know we're doing it. We're just acutely aware of how huge the privilege being born white, male, educated and Australian is (I earn more per fortnight than most people elsewhere in the world earn in a year). I consider myself extremely lucky. I've worked hard, but Im more than happy for those that have less than I do, or dont have the same opportunities I do, to get a little extra to help them out.
The reason the working class has pivoting right is not so complex. Fundamentally it boils down to one primary reason:

- the Living wage is no longer viewed as the primary commodity within our system, other forms of commodity such as land rights/credit/share portfolios/fexibilty in work hours/creativity/individualism/entrepreneurship are fetishised by the working class as the best way you can accumulate 'capital'. This has had a psychological effect on them, the average working class person has a mind set more in common with a small business owner (petit-bourgeoisie if you want to get marxy). His/her ideological perspective is constrained to their own problems and by extension their own solutions, when in fact history will tell us that solidarity and collective struggle are far more effective ways the working class improves their ability to increase a share of commodities in a capitalist system. A caveat to this is during the boom and bust cycle capitalism works in, often a 'petit-bourgeoisie' mentality will work perfectly fine during the boom times but also be catastrophically damaging to the working class during the bust times.
 

Soft Downhill Skier

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"A Muslim candidate running as a Democrat in Illinois for the upcoming House race says he would not let a woman journalist follow him while campaigning unless she was accompanied by a male colleague".

fu** off back to Syria then m8.
 

Malifice

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"A Muslim candidate running as a Democrat in Illinois for the upcoming House race says he would not let a woman journalist follow him while campaigning unless she was accompanied by a male colleague".

fu** off back to Syria then m8.
Huh?



That's the 'Syrian Muslim Democrat' you're talking about.

He's neither a Muslim, a Syrian, nor a Democrat.

What news site did you get your 'news' from?
 

medusala

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I know you're a conservative, but if you get the chance read Michael Moores 'Stupid White Men'. It deals with this phenomenon in a chapter (why do Working class people vote for governments that do not have their interests in mind and will actively legislate against them).

His reasoning is those people vote in parties that favor the wealthy end of town, based on the (false) belief that one day they'll have their place at the table (which of course, they wont).
Utter nonsense of course. Why are wages so depressed in the US? And who is in favour of that?

Also tax cuts as per Thatcher have led to the rich paying a higher % of income tax than previously.

He is utterly clueless on economics.


That's the 'Syrian Muslim Democrat' you're talking about.

He's neither a Muslim, a Syrian, nor a Democrat.

What news site did you get your 'news' from?
:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
 

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SaintsSeptember

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Working class/ suburban Right wingers have been voting in Conservative governments for years. Howard, Abbott, Trump etc, thinking those parties represent their interests (when they dont).

As soon as those Right wing governments come into power, its Knighthoods for the already wealthy and privileged, stripping welfare off the poor, Workchoices for the idiots that voted them in, tax cuts for the rich, Medicare hikes (or erosion), and sending those very same suburban and working class people off to war (so the wealthy can make an extra hundred billion a year off the oil dollars) and so forth.

I know you're a conservative, but if you get the chance read Michael Moores 'Stupid White Men'. It deals with this phenomenon in a chapter (why do Working class people vote for governments that do not have their interests in mind and will actively legislate against them).

His reasoning is those people vote in parties that favor the wealthy end of town, based on the (false) belief that one day they'll have their place at the table (which of course, they wont).

The corollary among the left is the 'latte/ limousine liberal' - traditionally white, upper class, educated and white collar professionals who vote in governments who increase welfare and their own tax burden (legislate against their interests).

Im probably one of them. At least we know we're doing it. We're just acutely aware of how huge the privilege being born white, male, educated and Australian is (I earn more per fortnight than most people elsewhere in the world earn in a year). I consider myself extremely lucky. I've worked hard, but Im more than happy for those that have less than I do, or dont have the same opportunities I do, to get a little extra to help them out.
You state that as if its a fact and try to insult whole demographics at the same time.
You will probably find that most people won't argue with you, because your style of debate is to belittle them and treat them as if they are stupid. This doesn't make you correct.

 

fleabitten

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Working class/ suburban Right wingers have been voting in Conservative governments for years. Howard, Abbott, Trump etc, thinking those parties represent their interests (when they dont).

As soon as those Right wing governments come into power, its Knighthoods for the already wealthy and privileged, stripping welfare off the poor, Workchoices for the idiots that voted them in, tax cuts for the rich, Medicare hikes (or erosion), and sending those very same suburban and working class people off to war (so the wealthy can make an extra hundred billion a year off the oil dollars) and so forth.

I know you're a conservative, but if you get the chance read Michael Moores 'Stupid White Men'. It deals with this phenomenon in a chapter (why do Working class people vote for governments that do not have their interests in mind and will actively legislate against them).

His reasoning is those people vote in parties that favor the wealthy end of town, based on the (false) belief that one day they'll have their place at the table (which of course, they wont).

The corollary among the left is the 'latte/ limousine liberal' - traditionally white, upper class, educated and white collar professionals who vote in governments who increase welfare and their own tax burden (legislate against their interests).

Im probably one of them. At least we know we're doing it. We're just acutely aware of how huge the privilege being born white, male, educated and Australian is (I earn more per fortnight than most people elsewhere in the world earn in a year). I consider myself extremely lucky. I've worked hard, but Im more than happy for those that have less than I do, or dont have the same opportunities I do, to get a little extra to help them out.
Hey everyone look at Malifice. He votes against his own interests because he's so aware of his privilege. What a great guy!

Never mind that most of the above is not at all true and he just has his head completely up his own privileged a-hole.
 

Steinfreo

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Utter nonsense of course. Why are wages so depressed in the US? And who is in favour of that?

Also tax cuts as per Thatcher have led to the rich paying a higher % of income tax than previously.

He is utterly clueless on economics.




:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
You are going to have to show a sauce on that call. Bill Gates just said like last week, the rich arent doing their fair share and should pay more tax.
 

Steinfreo

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Hey everyone look at Malifice. He votes against his own interests because he's so aware of his privilege. What a great guy!

Never mind that most of the above is not at all true and he just has his head completely up his own privileged a-hole.
Are you a rich man who is his own boss, are you an employer? If you are I completely understand why you would vote for reducing taxes and workers rights. I can also understand you not being interested in socialised medical services and welfare, you have the resources to take care of those things yourself.

The thing is its been sooooo long, almost 100 years since things have been really povo in the west, its hard to even comprehend, so whether or not you are rich theres still enough to go around, the socialist elements of our economic and health systems just slowly putter along in the background keeping things steady, but that will change if the s**t really does hit the fan and we all have to start thinking differently.

right now in australia you can really live how ever you want and still not die or starve, hopefully the neo-liberals are right and capitalism has reached a point where perpetual growth is possible, but its looking more and more unlikely. You may have to pick a side in a class struggle soon and it wont just be on internet forums or social media.
 

fleabitten

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Are you a rich man who is his own boss, are you an employer? If you are I completely understand why you would vote for reducing taxes and workers rights. I can also understand you not being interested in socialised medical services and welfare, you have the resources to take care of those things yourself.

The thing is its been sooooo long, almost 100 years since things have been really povo in the west, its hard to even comprehend, so whether or not you are rich theres still enough to go around, the socialist elements of our economic and health systems just slowly putter along in the background keeping things steady, but that will change if the s**t really does hit the fan and we all have to start thinking differently.

right now in australia you can really live how ever you want and still not die or starve, hopefully the neo-liberals are right and capitalism has reached a point where perpetual growth is possible, but its looking more and more unlikely. You may have to pick a side in a class struggle soon and it wont just be on internet forums or social media.
Born to a teenage mother who had to single parent in the days before you got paid for doing so. I'm firmly in the camp of the working class and poor, regardless of skin colour, gender, sexuality, whatever. Malifice and his ilk are frauds and it's a disgrace that they represent the modern left.
 

Steinfreo

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Born to a teenage mother who had to single parent in the days before you got paid for doing so. I'm firmly in the camp of the working class and poor, regardless of skin colour, gender, sexuality, whatever. Malifice and his ilk are frauds and it's a disgrace that they represent the modern left.
Hmmm its tough because I can sense your pride in your working class background and I think its awesome, its sad for me as a pretty devout leftie, was a union rep at 19 at a very large distribution warehouse for a major super market chain, to hear that pride because I am passionate about that feeling and I know its power. It really is a massive shame that the labour movement is so alienated from the average working class man, and I hope down the track we can sort our s**t out, I am optimistic though I feel things are beginning to change.

That pride you feel is the power behind so many amazing historical moments, so much of the character of our country and the quality of life we currently enjoy was powered by that pride. If things ever do get really tough I hope the left can refocus and tap into that feeling and reignite a powerful solidarity amongst the working person.
 
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