Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

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Taylor

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No. It means you're a racist and you're "tarring all Muslims".

Ask Malifice and Ben Affleck.
That's just how they try and end the discussion.

If we can get past the reality that cultures are different and some are better than others then we can move onto agreeing that cultures are equally valid but we do need to be conscious that we aren't all the same, especially when interacting outside of controlled environments.
 

Sweet Jesus

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That's just how they try and end the discussion.

If we can get past the reality that cultures are different and some are better than others then we can move onto agreeing that cultures are equally valid but we do need to be conscious that we aren't all the same, especially when interacting outside of controlled environments.
Establishing whether they're "better" or not isn't even necessary. The question is simply whether they're compatible.

Is Islam compatible with secular Western values? Certain practices/doctrines - including those regarding apostasy, blasphemy and martyrdom - clearly are not.

So if you like secular Western values, it makes sense to acknowledge this.
 

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Taylor

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Establishing whether they're "better" or not isn't even necessary. The question is simply whether they're compatible.

Is Islam compatible with secular Western values? Certain doctrines - such as those regarding apostasy, blasphemy and martyrdom - clearly are not.

So if you like secular Western values, it makes sense to acknowledge this.
Yes better is subjective based on the culture you live in and you're right, compatibility is better.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Criticism of Islam = racism against brown people.

Answer me honestly, do critics of Catholicism, Mormonism or any ‘western’ religion face the same scrutiny as AHA?
Yeah it's weird isn't it?

I think we'd all quite comfortably make the observation that there is institutionally something rotten in the Catholic Church. And if you say that, no one accuses you of "tarring all Catholics".

But if you examine some of the ideas within Islam and question whether they're compatible with secular Western societies, that's tantamount to bracketing all Muslims with terrorists.

It's such an obvious, ideological red herring.
 

JackOutback

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Yeah it's weird isn't it?

I think we'd all quite comfortably make the observation that there is institutionally something rotten in the Catholic Church. And if you say that, no one accuses you of "tarring all Catholics".

But if you examine some of the ideas within Islam and question whether they're compatible with secular Western societies, that's tantamount to bracketing all Muslims with terrorists.

It's such an obvious, ideological red herring.
Has anyone ever questioned whether Catholicism is compatible with Western society, despite its litany of abuses over centuries?

You are so close to seeing the difference in how criticism of Islam is packaged.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Has anyone ever questioned whether Catholicism is compatible with Western society, despite its litany of abuses over centuries?
There's certainly no shortage of criticism of the Catholic Church.

The criticism of the Catholic Church is even more explicit and probably harsher i.e. this is a morally bankrupt institution that appears to not only attract paedophiles but then cover for them.

Does that "tarnish all Catholics"?

And is that less severe a criticism than asking whether certain doctrines of Islam are "compatible" with Western society?

You are so close to seeing the difference in how criticism of Islam is packaged.
This makes no case.

What do you mean by "packaged"? Is this an attempt to rebut racists and wingnuts rather than the arguments I've made?

I can assure you I'm hostile to organised religion generally.
 

Malifice

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Answer me honestly, do critics of Catholicism, Mormonism or any ‘western’ religion face the same scrutiny as AHA?
When was the last time a critic of either of those religions labelled the followers rapists, and advocated banning them entry to the country, and deporting the ones already here?

You can be critical of fundamentalist Islam, and Salafi Jihadism. I mean - we're at a war with adherents of that strain of the religion FFS. I certainly have been critical on multiple occasions, and I cant recall a single poster (even the lefties) on here in 13 years I've been doing this caper ever (once) supporting that ideology or speaking favorably of it.

It's when the argument strays into 'and THATS why the brown folk are rapists, and need to be deported' that you've crossed the line, and you can expect people to call you out on it.

It's like how one can be critical of Israel or even the practices of ultra conservative Judaism without being anti-Semitic.
 

Malifice

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And is that less severe a criticism than asking whether certain doctrines of Islam are "compatible" with Western society?
You keep saying that. What do you actually mean. What 'doctrines'? Are you speaking of a particular sect (Sunni, Shia) or a variant of one of those (Salafism, Wahhabism etc), or aspects of the entire religion generally?
 

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Ben The Donkey

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They are expressed differently in Islam.
Mocking the church has been a comedy staple for decades, until recently. Monty Python, Dave Allen, et al. Secular society, in Australia and elsewhere, has been pointing out incongruities and removing the caul for as long as I can remember.

I think it comes down to the word "respect" slowly changing from something that one once earned through their actions, to being something now demanded as a right.

It's a strange form of Nihilism.
 

Sweet Jesus

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Mocking the church has been a comedy staple for decades, until recently. Monty Python, Dave Allen, et al. Secular society, in Australia and elsewhere, has been pointing out incongruities and removing the caul for as long as I can remember.

I think it comes down to the word "respect" slowly changing from something that one once earned through their actions, to being something now demanded as a right.

It's a strange form of Nihilism.
I'm not sure how this connects to the post you quoted or the arguments I've made before that.
 

Malifice

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But I still 100% believe that the largest Ideological threat in the world is Islamic Extremism, and it’s not even close.
Id have both ultra-nationalism and climate change denial both well above Islamic Extremism.

The former has been the cause of pretty much every war ever (including the last two world wars which alone account for 100 million dead) and the latter threatens to doom the entire planet and every living thing on it.
 

sorted

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Mocking the church has been a comedy staple for decades, until recently. Monty Python, Dave Allen, et al. Secular society, in Australia and elsewhere, has been pointing out incongruities and removing the caul for as long as I can remember.
There's no mocking allowed when it comes to Islam.

Last year Samuel Paty, a history and geography teacher who showed his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed was beheaded near his school in a Paris suburb by a suspected Islamist terrorist who shouted “Allahu Akbar".

Just recently in England a religious studies teacher showed his pupils cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed. His school, Batley Grammar in West Yorkshire, sent pupils home and issued an apology after the parents of Muslim children gathered at the gates to protest. The teacher was described as a “terrorist” in a letter from one community leader. His career is over. His whole family is in hiding due to death threats.
 

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