Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

[Malifice]

How is the religion not inseparable from the people?

Is there one universal belief of Islam shared by all Muslims, or is there a wide sectarian division in the religion?

Saying 'All Muslims are terrorists' is bad enough (although you can make the argument that Salaffism/ Wahabbism preaches militant Jihad of course). Saying 'All Muslims are sex offenders' takes things beyond the pale.

 

[Frank Bunn]

How is the religion not inseparable from the people?

It's separable in one way in that most Muslims are not terrorists, do not mutilate their daughter's vaginas, or gang rape children.

However, it is also true that most terrorists are Muslim, most people who mutilate their daughter's vaginas are Muslim, and those who have raped and abused thousands of children in British towns are of Pakistani Muslim descent.

 

[Malifice]

However, it is also true that most terrorists are Muslim, most people who mutilate their daughter's vaginas are Muslim, and those who have raped and abused thousands of children in British towns are of Pakistani Muslim descent.

Are most terrorists Muslim? I've heard this claim a lot and I'd like some solid facts to back it up.

FGM isnt a religious practice either. While there is correlation with certain ethnic groups who are also predominantly Mulsim, it's not an Islamic practice as far as I know.

And do you have any evidence to back up your claim that 'thousands' of British children have been raped by Pakistani Muslim men?

 

[hawks realist]

My post you were addressing was one where I said not to do that (which you cracked the sads at). I was telling you not to criticize moderation (which is what the post was).

We clear?

my posts were deleted along with a few others,did you do that?I didn't say anything negative about muslims as a group. A few of us conversed about the sexual nature inherent in a lot of things Islam.

 

[Frank Bunn]

And do you have any evidence to back up your claim that 'thousands' of British children have been raped by Pakistani Muslim men?

I'm surprised you are not aware of these cases as you have said you were living over there.

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - at least 1400 children
Rochdale sex trafficking gang. Forty-seven girls.
Telford child sex abuse ring - up to 1,000 girls may have been abused, with some even murdered.
Oxford child sex abuse ring - more than 300 children.
Derby child sex abuse ring - up to 100 girls.
Bristol child sex abuse ring – Somalis this time, same type of offences.
Newcastle child sex abuse ring - up to 278 victims.
Halifax child sex abuse ring - the principal victim was abused by at least a hundred men from the age of 13.

 

[hawks realist]

I'm surprised you are not aware of these cases as you have said you were living over there.

Rotherham child sexual exploitation scandal - at least 1400 children
Rochdale sex trafficking gang. Forty-seven girls.
Telford child sex abuse ring - up to 1,000 girls may have been abused, with some even murdered.
Oxford child sex abuse ring - more than 300 children.
Derby child sex abuse ring - up to 100 girls.
Bristol child sex abuse ring – Somalis this time, same type of offences.
Newcastle child sex abuse ring - up to 278 victims.
Halifax child sex abuse ring - the principal victim was abused by at least a hundred men from the age of 13.

If only there was some kind of link.

 

[Frank Bunn]

If only there was some kind of link.

Muna Adil is of British Pakistani heritage and helped produce a report for Quilliam on the grooming gang cases.

There are elements from within the British Pakistani community that still subscribe to outdated and sexist views of women embedded within their jaded interpretations of Islam.​

https://www.quilliaminternational.com/press-release-new-quilliam-report-on-grooming-gangs/

 

[CM86]

More than 1,000 Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association (AMYA) members held a special prayer then put on hi-vis jackets to go out and collect hundreds of bin bags of rubbish from last night’s celebrations.​

​

British Ahmadiyya Imam Qamar Zafar said: ‘From Luton to London, Glasgow to Guilford, Cardiff to Croydon, across the entire country 1,000 members of AMYA participated in the New Year’s Day clean up.​

​

‘Islam urges every Muslim to partake in charitable giving, community service, and promote cleanliness.​

‘AMYA has and continues to instill young people with a sense of civic responsibility, and a desire to promote harmony within our local communities.’​

​

He added: ‘The New Year’s Day Clean-up campaign ensures Muslim youth can be active members of society and serve their communities and the environment.’​

​

In 2018 AMYA, the UK’s largest and oldest Muslim youth group, held more than 300 community clean ups and planted 20,000 trees across the country.​

AMYA Yorkshire youth coordinator Nadeem Ahmed said: ‘We’ve been doing the New Year’s clean-up for many years now, and each year we see more and more members coming to help.​

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/01/youn...ations-8298756/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Malifice]

Muna Adil is of British Pakistani heritage and helped produce a report for Quilliam on the grooming gang cases.

There are elements from within the British Pakistani community that still subscribe to outdated and sexist views of women embedded within their jaded interpretations of Islam.​

https://www.quilliaminternational.com/press-release-new-quilliam-report-on-grooming-gangs/

Im down with a lot of Quilliams positions (both critical positions and positive ones) on Islam.

They're the sort of dudes that we should be supporting; opposing Islamism and the nutters behind it, while promoting Islam as a religion compatible with Liberalism.

 

[Moshie The Mook]

Surely in 2019 we'd be trying to wind down nuffie religions and encouraging people to improve their beliefs, or at least go do yoga.

It's disappointing we still have people who need to make believe there's a bloke up there who spent the last 2000 years in limbo, and just to piss off the christians, he is going to turncoat and come back down here to rule in the name of Allah.

Agree with Sam Harris. Islam is the mother lode of bad ideas.

We need to scrap it, or get a ring-in Prophet to publically come out and make much needed upgrades to the bloody thing.

 

[Frank Bunn]

More than 1,000 Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association (AMYA) members held a special prayer then put on hi-vis jackets to go out and collect hundreds of bin bags of rubbish from last night’s celebrations.​

​

British Ahmadiyya Imam Qamar Zafar said: ‘From Luton to London, Glasgow to Guilford, Cardiff to Croydon, across the entire country 1,000 members of AMYA participated in the New Year’s Day clean up.​

​

‘Islam urges every Muslim to partake in charitable giving, community service, and promote cleanliness.​

‘AMYA has and continues to instill young people with a sense of civic responsibility, and a desire to promote harmony within our local communities.’​

​

He added: ‘The New Year’s Day Clean-up campaign ensures Muslim youth can be active members of society and serve their communities and the environment.’​

​

In 2018 AMYA, the UK’s largest and oldest Muslim youth group, held more than 300 community clean ups and planted 20,000 trees across the country.​

AMYA Yorkshire youth coordinator Nadeem Ahmed said: ‘We’ve been doing the New Year’s clean-up for many years now, and each year we see more and more members coming to help.​

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/01/youn...ations-8298756/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Very good. But when they refer to 'youth' or 'young people' they mean young males.

 

[hawks realist]

Very good. But when they refer to 'youth' or 'young people' they mean young males.

Pretty sure a lot of Muslims hate Ahmadiyya's and don't recognise them as Muslim.

 

[hawks realist]

 

[its free real estate]

More than 1,000 Ahmadiyya Muslim Youth Association (AMYA) members held a special prayer then put on hi-vis jackets to go out and collect hundreds of bin bags of rubbish from last night’s celebrations.​

​

British Ahmadiyya Imam Qamar Zafar said: ‘From Luton to London, Glasgow to Guilford, Cardiff to Croydon, across the entire country 1,000 members of AMYA participated in the New Year’s Day clean up.​

​

‘Islam urges every Muslim to partake in charitable giving, community service, and promote cleanliness.​

‘AMYA has and continues to instill young people with a sense of civic responsibility, and a desire to promote harmony within our local communities.’​

​

He added: ‘The New Year’s Day Clean-up campaign ensures Muslim youth can be active members of society and serve their communities and the environment.’​

​

In 2018 AMYA, the UK’s largest and oldest Muslim youth group, held more than 300 community clean ups and planted 20,000 trees across the country.​

AMYA Yorkshire youth coordinator Nadeem Ahmed said: ‘We’ve been doing the New Year’s clean-up for many years now, and each year we see more and more members coming to help.​

https://metro.co.uk/2019/01/01/youn...ations-8298756/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

The vast Muslim world regards the Ahmadiyya as apostates and they get murdered in huge numbers in Pakistan.

 

[Malifice]

The vast Muslim world regards the Ahmadiyya as apostates and they get murdered in huge numbers in Pakistan.

But I thought all Muslims were the same, and part of one big 'Global Islam?'

 

[its free real estate]

But I thought all Muslims were the same, and part of one big 'Global Islam?'

Not according to Muslims.

 

[Malifice]

Not according to Muslims.

Which is kind of my point.

Why we insist on lumping hardline Wahabbi Islamist/ Salaffist nutters in with moderates (who clearly believe different s**t) I'll never know.

You can claim WBC are 'christians' as are Catholics. But their actual beliefs are so far apart that they'd likely come to blows over dinner.

 

[its free real estate]

Which is kind of my point.

Why we insist on lumping hardline Wahabbi Islamist/ Salaffist nutters in with moderates (who clearly believe different s**t) I'll never know.

You can claim WBC are 'christians' as are Catholics. But their actual beliefs are so far apart that they'd likely come to blows over dinner.

Forget the Wahabbism straw man, the persecution and loathing of Ahmadiyya is a majority view amongst “moderate” Muslims.

 

[Malifice]

Forget the Wahabbism straw man, the persecution and loathing of Ahmadiyya is a majority view amongst “moderate” Muslims.

On that we agree, and it's repugnant and reprehensible.

Secondly, Ahmadiyya are moderate Muslims (although other Muslims disagree, in much the same way as Catholics dont consider other Christians as Christian).

 

[its free real estate]

On that we agree, and it's repugnant and reprehensible.

Secondly, Ahmadiyya are moderate Muslims (although other Muslims disagree, in much the same way as Catholics dont consider other Christians as Christian).

No, Ahmadiyya are liberal Muslims who deviate from the tradition of Islam, since they recognise another man as a prophet. Moderate Muslims are non-Salafist mainstream Muslim, who still believe many things we in the West find repugnant but don’t go to the lengths a Salafi does. There are over a billion of these “moderate” Muslims.

It’s a bit like saying Christians are Jews - well, yes, they sort of once were. But Jews have always rejected Christianity, and ones that didn’t we now consider “Christian”.

 

[Malifice]

No, Ahmadiyya are liberal Muslims who deviate from the tradition of Islam. Moderate Muslims are non-Salafist mainstream Muslim.

Thats your distinction, not mine. There are plently of moderate Muslims that that are more liberal than Ahymadiyya Muslims (and there are plenty of moderate Muslims that would reject your argument on different grounds; namely that they wouldnt consider Ahmadiyya Muslims as Muslims at all).

Daesh would put both groups to the sword as apostates if they didnt adopt Salffist hardline practices and beliefs, so they would disagree with you as well.

 

[its free real estate]

Thats your distinction, not mine. There are plently of moderate Muslims that that are more liberal than Ahymadiyya Muslims (and there are plenty of moderate Muslims that would reject your argument on different grounds; namely that they wouldnt consider Ahmadiyya Muslims as Muslims at all).

Daesh would put both groups to the sword as apostates if they didnt adopt Salffist hardline practices and beliefs, so they would disagree with you as well.

Quit with the Daesh straw man. Pakistan, a democracy with a population of around 200 million Muslims, refuses to let Ahmadis get passports unless they renounce their religion. Is Pakistan extremist?

 

[Malifice]

Quit with the Daesh straw man. Pakistan, a democracy with a population of around 200 million Muslims, refuses to let Ahmadis get passports unless they renounce their religion. Is Pakistan extremist?

I certainly dont consider Pakistan moderate. In fact it's a hotbed of Islamic extremism.

Ive met some lovely Pakistani people of course, and most of them are welcoming and inviting, but the country as whole suffers from a very low HDI, some primitive as * living conditions, and a high level of extremism.

There is a reason why we dont do Cricket tours over there any more. And as mentioned above, most of the members of the Sex grooming gangs in the UK were of Pakistani (Muslim) background.

Again, not to say Pakistani Muslims are all s**t or sex monsters or terrorists or anything like that. That's far from what I'm saying. But they're a very devout Islamic culture, with a low HDI to boot (a pretty s**t combination when it comes to Islamic extremism, and concepts of modernity like religious freedom, human rights, equal opportunity, feminism and so forth).

 

[Malifice]

I mean, take a look at this map and see if you cant find Pakistan on it. Along with Syria, Iraq, Nigeria and Afghanistan it's one of the worst nations for Islamic extremism out there:

 

[Proud SJW]

You really have to hand it to the Terrorists.
In a very short space of time, they've managed to ensure most of the Western world (thinks they) know more about Islam than they do about just about any other religion.

And you know what they say about publicity, right?
I mean let's face it, 9/11 and subsequent events have done more for the spread of Islamic awareness (and study) than any Imam ever has.