Society/Culture Why I blame Islam for the fact it's raining today....

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Oh sweet Total Power, I have done my research. Not frantic googling in response to a discussion, but years of reading on the subject.

Slavery was abolished in Europe around the turn of the first millennium, and it was the first place in the world to abolish slavery.

It was only reintroduced on the discovery of the New World, and aided by the long running Islamic Slave Trade, which sold sub Saharan Africans to the Europeans.


But you don't actually read my posts, do you? Slavery is universal. I never said slavery was invented by the Europeans, i said, slavery was industrialised by them. That was never even part of any of these discussions that slavery wasn't common back then. I thought that was a granted. Transporting people across oceans and using them to produce cash crops- rather than necessary food or war materiel,as happened before- as chattel based an a philosophy that dehumanises them based on their physiognomic differences is not universal. It is specific. It started with Europeans.

Did the Arabs employ transported labourers across several continents for the sheer profit of cultivating and selling cash crop commodities? Not a rhetorical question;a genuine. I don't know, but I suspect not. Those market system lines led to the sea. I'm not sure the people along such routes were all Arabs, I'd be highly skeptical.

It never, ever occurred to Hideyoshi, strangely enough, to do such a thing. And he was a violent, paranoid nutcase. Nor did occur to the Chinese, the Koreans or even the Mongols, even though they all had the seafaring technology necessary. Just saying. He was also an exception, I guess. I hope everyone's sense of the European as inevitable agent of progress is affronted enough for this afternoon. "The white man made the world freer by banning slavery, my arse." Go read some history, folks.
 
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I find it bizarre that the proceeds of 400 years of free labour is never mentioned as a contributing factor to the wealth of the uk. When it comes to slavery all I hear is "we stopped it". Get your hand off it.

Hillariously Meds also thinks that the UK going it on its own will be good for the UK.

Last time I checked it's too expensive to make anything in the UK, and they dont exactly have an abundance of natural resources. Its only a matter of time before Scotland (and Northern Ireland) leave the Union (in Scotlands case, taking the one natural resource the UK has with them).

Signing their own death warrant there. It's there own fault for leaving the Germans (and to a lesser extent, the French) in charge of the EU I guess.
 
Did the Arabs employ transported labourers across several continents
Yes. And they still do.

Slavery is rampant in the gulf states. They kidnap little boys from Pakistan and Bangladesh to keep as sex slaves and camel jockeys in Saudi Arabia.

In August 1999, a four-year-old jockey from Bangladesh was found abandoned and close to death in the desert. In 2000, Anti-Slavery International reported the case of a four-year-old jockey from Bangladesh whose employer burnt him on his legs for under-performing. The boy was left crippled.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/03/peterbeaumont.theobserver
 

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Yes. And they still do.

Slavery is rampant in the gulf states. They kidnap little boys from Pakistan and Bangladesh to keep as sex slaves and camel jockeys in Saudi Arabia.

In August 1999, a four-year-old jockey from Bangladesh was found abandoned and close to death in the desert. In 2000, Anti-Slavery International reported the case of a four-year-old jockey from Bangladesh whose employer burnt him on his legs for under-performing. The boy was left crippled.​

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/jun/03/peterbeaumont.theobserver


That is human traffiking, happens in Europe and US too with women from CIS countries. It's different to what i was saying.

Here are some figures from EU. Look at forced labour numbers.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/...n-trafficking-nearly-16-000-victims-in-the-eu
 
Hillariously Meds also thinks that the UK going it on its own will be good for the UK.

Last time I checked it's too expensive to make anything in the UK, and they dont exactly have an abundance of natural resources. Its only a matter of time before Scotland (and Northern Ireland) leave the Union (in Scotlands case, taking the one natural resource the UK has with them).

Signing their own death warrant there. It's there own fault for leaving the Germans (and to a lesser extent, the French) in charge of the EU I guess.

The evidence itself is damning. Dont want to derail the thread but the UK is losing 450 million pounds a week. All predictions point to a gloomy picture but still not enough to change their mind. I guess keeping the brown people out is more important, without realisng this got nothing to do with Brexit itself.
 
It was only reintroduced on the discovery of the New World, and aided by the long running Islamic Slave Trade, which sold sub Saharan Africans to the Europeans.

Wasnt just the Mohammedans who sold them slaves, the locals did as well.

Hillariously Meds also thinks that the UK going it on its own will be good for the UK.

Last time I checked it's too expensive to make anything in the UK, and they dont exactly have an abundance of natural resources.

Poor old Mal, another immolation effort.

1) UK has a cheaper cost based than places like France and Germany due to lower taxes and lower labour costs and restrictions
2) Services account for about 80% of the UK economy.
3) The UK runs a non EU trade surplus but a large deficit with the EU, join the ...
 
Wasnt just the Mohammedans who sold them slaves, the locals did as well.

No one has denied that or argued that. Re-read my posts above. European culture is hardly a shining light for us all. Consider the French occupation in Africa, till date, France dictates the fortunes of 9 African countries. You seem to be pissed off with EU having a say in UK affairs, why don't you make a fair stand here and tell me the enlightenment Europe showered on Africa specially is terrible even today!

And British empire? haha please! 45 trillion stolen alone from the subcontinent which had 1/4th of the worlds GDP then. Read your history

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/o...j7EkJropmlFp4uFtRHENV-5ySmTLklAajRmCeYjxPft7Y


Save us from your culture of "enlightenment". I would pick many other places ahead of Europe, easily.
 
1) UK has a cheaper cost based than places like France and Germany due to lower taxes and lower labour costs and restrictions

The UK havent made anything at home for literally ever. The Germans and French get around higher labor costs by making 'premium' items (BMW etc). The UK dont make s**t anymore with almost all their once iconic brands now made overseas (Land Rover, Jaguar, Enfield all in India etc). Aston Martins are about the only thing still made in Britain that's on par with BMW and so forth.

If Im British, why am I making stuff in Britain, when its cheaper to make it in India or elsewhere (barring making premium quality stuff, and then im in competition with the Europeans)?

And how is leaving the EU going to help? Dont say 'no more EU regulations'. If you want to sell your s**t you make in the UK to the EU you still have to comply with EU regulations anyway.

2) Services account for about 80% of the UK economy.

Which isn't exactly selling me on the 'leave' argument.

3) The UK runs a non EU trade surplus but a large deficit with the EU, join the ...

What exactly are you trading with an economy that is 80 percent services?
 
Hillariously Meds also thinks that the UK going it on its own will be good for the UK.

Last time I checked it's too expensive to make anything in the UK, and they dont exactly have an abundance of natural resources. Its only a matter of time before Scotland (and Northern Ireland) leave the Union (in Scotlands case, taking the one natural resource the UK has with them).

Signing their own death warrant there. It's there own fault for leaving the Germans (and to a lesser extent, the French) in charge of the EU I guess.

If the UK is on their own, and their economy slumps, their Pound will go down compared to the EURO.
That THEN makes them more competitive.
This is what the Greeks couldn't do and needed to do.

A Country that only has "Service" and no prospects for anything else ....reminds me of somewhere.
Lucky we have those holes in the ground full of good stuff, the people who dig it out and sell it can afford to have their Lawns mowed and hair cut.
 

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Surprised India is on the list.

This is a bullshit list, there are only one or two states in India (namely Bihar and Orissa) where Christians are victims. Christians in India get privilege status and not looked down on. Go to Goa for example and see it for yourself. I work in India and in a state like Kerala Christians get all the privileges ahead of local Hindus and Muslims. Only in recent times there's been attacks against Christian missionaries, hence India is on the list, but in general Christians are quite privileged in India, specially when it comes to job applications. If you have a Western looking name, you will get the preference over a local Hindu or Muslim name.
 
Distinction without a difference.

The Saudi Arabian embasssy is known to have kept slaves in Canberra. Due to diplomatic immunity little can be done about it. Does that mean slavery is legal in Australia?

Disagree. Not all trafficked fall into a "slave-type" or indentured situation, thus, the term slavery does not apply in all cases. Example being South Asian construction works in Dubai. They work in very difficult conditions but they have rights and benefits. They were brought to UAE with false promises, but they have the choice to leave. Most stay back as they will earn a lot more in Dubai than they can in Pakistan. The main culprits are the recruitment agencies in their own countries who take advantage of loopholes in labour law in the UAE. Hardly comparable to trans-atlantic slave trade where human beings were bought and sold as cattles.

Exploitation of human beings exist in every country, read about Aussie miners in Congo? how they forced local Congolese (including children) into slavery in their own mines? that doesnt necessarily means Australia supports slavery. Anyway Saudi Arabia is a terrible example, the country exists for all the wrong reasons.

But , slavery does exist. Absolutely. I don't disagree with that, including our own country. So why just pick on Saudi, here are examples of slavery in Australia

http://www.antislavery.org.au/home/face-of-slavery-in-australia.html

Australia is noted to have about 4,600 slave workers right now, not bad for a country topping the quality of life index every year. The figures in UK are far higher than that.

Anyway 2 wrongs dont make a right, my point still stands, European culture is hardly a shining light. The colonies and their countries were built by slave labour and trillions of dollars worth stolen wealth. I can't believe that meds is gloating about the enlightenment Europeans have showered on the rest of the world.
 
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Disagree. Not all trafficked fall into a "slave-type" or indentured situation, thus, the term slavery does not apply in all cases. Example being South Asian construction works in Dubai. They work in very difficult conditions but they have rights and benefits. They were brought to UAE with false promises, but they have the choice to leave. Most stay back as they will earn a lot more in Dubai than they can in Pakistan. The main culprits are the recruitment agencies in their own countries who take advantage of loopholes in labour law in the UAE. Hardly comparable to trans-atlantic slave trade where human beings were bought and sold as cattles.

Exploitation of human beings exist in every country, read about Aussie miners in Congo? how they forced local Congolese (including children) into slavery in their own mines? that doesnt necessarily means Australia supports slavery. Anyway Saudi Arabia is a terrible example, the country exists for all the wrong reasons.

But , slavery does exist. Absolutely. I don't disagree with that, including our own country. So why just pick on Saudi, here are examples of slavery in Australia

http://www.antislavery.org.au/home/face-of-slavery-in-australia.html

Australia is noted to have about 4,600 slave workers right now, not bad for a country topping the quality of life index every year. The figures in UK are far higher than that.

Anyway 2 wrongs dont make a right, my point still stands, European culture is hardly a shining light. The colonies and their countries were built by slave labour and trillions of dollars worth stolen wealth. I can't believe that meds is gloating about the enlightenment Europeans have showered on the rest of the world.

So to counter the argument that European culture is a shining light, you link an article about how "non european immigrants" are forming the "face of slavery in Australia" ? ( or are there other examples there if i dig deeper ).
 
So to counter the argument that European culture is a shining light, you link an article about how "non european immigrants" are forming the "face of slavery in Australia" ? ( or are there other examples there if i dig deeper ).

There are plenty of other examples mate, Australia has anywhere between 4600 to 15,000 slaves. Most of them are in prostitution or in seafood industry or domestic workers. Research your own. Not to mentions thousands of aboriginals who were slaves in mines for decades? This countries foundation lies in slavery. were they non europeans too?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-stained-with-the-profits-of-british-slavery

my point was European colonies were run by slaves and built on stolen wealth. Millions of dead Indians in America and aboriginals bear proof of the brutality. There is absolutely nothing to be proud about European civilisation and till date nothing has changed. The rape and pillage of Middle East and Africa is the proof of that. Slavery still exists, just the definition has changed.
 
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I'm sick and tired of non-entities like Sonia Kruger being asked for their opinions on matters so clearly beyond their limited intellect and the media for inflating them on the level of informed discussion. Seriously, who the **** cares what Sonia Kruger thinks about our immigration policies, what influence does she carry over these policies?
Well said. Sonia Kruger is as dumb as a post yet her message is given air time because she is a ‘celebrity’.
 
Let me put it another way.

Right now of 2016 the World's population is out of control to the extent the Planet is suffering.

In an Australian context Australian Cities are grid looked. Traffic and public transport is extreme to the extent that people are travelling previously reasonable distances 2 hours each way and missing valuable family/leisure/relaxation time. There are no jobs anymore to the extent Australia has a homeless catastrophe on our hands with people literally dying in the street.

Given the Australian Birth Rate is under 2.1 our population growth is caused by immigration. So why even have it in the ******* first place??????????? Given our Government is elected to ensure they represent the interests of Australian Citizens why prioritise the rest of the world first????????

OR

One could argue Multiculturalism is a great thing if we take the best of what each other has to offer and junk the rest. We are human after all and all in this together. Only then can humanity truly develop. Then by all means take all comers and open the borders. But if you do that you then have to release us from all the ridiculous nanny State Rules Prohibitions and Regulations that simply act as a Handbrake on Life rather than protect us from anything. Let's have a true open society where information and choices are free for everyone and personal responsibility is key. Let the Big Girls and Boys out to play.

I could debate this for a week and I never thought I would take the Andrew Bolts and Sonia Krugers seriously but one thing they are spot on about is....We simply can not go on like this. We have to change.
Unfortunately you can’t take the best and junk the rest. There are people as desperate as ever to try and stay alive and unfortunately their own political regimes are so messed up they end up being subject to awful living conditions or end up dead. As human beings it’s our obligation to look out for people of all walks of life.

The issue of living capacity and economic strain for example is one that can be mitigated by focusing priorities specifically on those policies. Travel infrastructure here is pretty poor, there is a lot of wasted space that could be properly developed for housing, but we also need to work smarter with other developed countries where refugees and immigrants want to go, it has to be an even spread.
 
I agree to the extent. Don't play the man play the ball.

I can hate the ideology of North Korean totalitarian ideology without hating North Koreans. For they are born in that part of the world and have no say.

I can hate the ideologue of bikies and the Hells Angels without having anything personally against your average bogan member who was just born/mixed/circumstance led them to that circle.

Just as I can hate .............you see where I'm going.

In fact why do we as Humanity even tolerate Religion and their bullshit anymore?

There are 3 dominant Religions in the world today.

1) Mutalate their genitals still.

2) Another have upteem royal Co missions into Paedophilia going on where they have a major foot hold.

3) Another seemingly can not co-exist with any other Culture, Religion or belief system and anywhere they reach a significant number violence and terrorism emerges.

I realise people will always ask deep questions and there is a battle for hearts and minds but surely by now Religion has lost the battle.
Religion is a backward concept that is the catalyst for every issue in the world. It’s ironic, all these religions pander to some ‘god’ that we can’t even prove is real. So in reality, there’s no reason or just cause to have a religion.

All human beings are is an advanced cerebral animal.
 
There are plenty of other examples mate, Australia has anywhere between 4600 to 15,000 slaves. Most of them are in prostitution or in seafood industry or domestic workers. Research your own. Not to mentions thousands of aboriginals who were slaves in mines for decades? This countries foundation lies in slavery. were they non europeans too?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-stained-with-the-profits-of-british-slavery

my point was European colonies were run by slaves and built on stolen wealth. Millions of dead Indians in America and aboriginals bear proof of the brutality. There is absolutely nothing to be proud about European civilisation and till date nothing has changed. The rape and pillage of Middle East and Africa is the proof of that. Slavery still exists, just the definition has changed.
There are plenty of other examples mate, Australia has anywhere between 4600 to 15,000 slaves. Most of them are in prostitution or in seafood industry or domestic workers. Research your own. Not to mentions thousands of aboriginals who were slaves in mines for decades? This countries foundation lies in slavery. were they non europeans too?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-stained-with-the-profits-of-british-slavery

my point was European colonies were run by slaves and built on stolen wealth. Millions of dead Indians in America and aboriginals bear proof of the brutality. There is absolutely nothing to be proud about European civilisation and till date nothing has changed. The rape and pillage of Middle East and Africa is the proof of that. Slavery still exists, just the definition has changed.
Seems you are changing it.
 
To which you demonstrate hate and intolerance towards all Muslims by likening them to the Nazis and making calls to persecute or exclude from society all of them.

Derp.

If you want tolerance, how about being ******* tolerant yourself.



Keep slagging them off, and Im sure you'll get some kind of reaction from one deranged Muslim out there.

In fact, its precisely what ISIL are counting on. This is why they do the social media thing.
Bang. On point sir.

You see how terrorism works? Al Quaeda isn’t just some crazy religious sect, they are methodically organised institution driven by a code and culture whereby they want to spread and preach an anti west sentiment. They also use their weaponary in the most advanced way, through technology and political dysfunction.

You see all these right wing extremists who want to ‘stop the boats’ or ban muslims can’t control the overarching social adhesive of the internet and social media, and that’s where the extremists dwell. They hope for political dissent to create an ostracised minority, and then lure the vulnerable through the vast realms of the internet.

The world hasn’t really caught on that if we push the right wingers aside, and develop and inclusive environment to our immigrants, we might have less resistance from immigrants as they feel less ostracised and more socially welcome. But human nature at some levels in everyone is discriminatory, it’s probably some primal protective impulse that still keeps us in the animal kingdom, albeit cerebrally advanced, but animals with an instinct for survival nonetheless.

I detest what all forms of extremism is, but the western world is also guilty of it in its own unique way, not by means of bombs or blasts, but by extremism through racism and excluding the minorities.

Really, what we are seeing from Al Quaeda and ISIL is exactly what the Nazis based their principles upon; preying on the desperate and dejected.

It’s fascinating how intelligent these terrorists are, not to mention Bin Laden was educated at an American College!
 
Bang. On point sir.

You see how terrorism works? Al Quaeda isn’t just some crazy religious sect, they are methodically organised institution driven by a code and culture whereby they want to spread and preach an anti west sentiment. They also use their weaponary in the most advanced way, through technology and political dysfunction.

You see all these right wing extremists who want to ‘stop the boats’ or ban muslims can’t control the overarching social adhesive of the internet and social media, and that’s where the extremists dwell. They hope for political dissent to create an ostracised minority, and then lure the vulnerable through the vast realms of the internet.

The world hasn’t really caught on that if we push the right wingers aside, and develop and inclusive environment to our immigrants, we might have less resistance from immigrants as they feel less ostracised and more socially welcome. But human nature at some levels in everyone is discriminatory, it’s probably some primal protective impulse that still keeps us in the animal kingdom, albeit cerebrally advanced, but animals with an instinct for survival nonetheless.

I detest what all forms of extremism is, but the western world is also guilty of it in its own unique way, not by means of bombs or blasts, but by extremism through racism and excluding the minorities.

Really, what we are seeing from Al Quaeda and ISIL is exactly what the Nazis based their principles upon; preying on the desperate and dejected.

It’s fascinating how intelligent these terrorists are, not to mention Bin Laden was educated at an American College!

How do we become inclusive to Muslims?
By building special facilities for them to exclude themselves in ?
 
How do we become inclusive to Muslims?
By building special facilities for them to exclude themselves in ?
See this is the problem, it's attitudes like this that continue to create a culture of 'you and us'. Their religion is important, it's not hurting you or I if we build a mosque now is it? I mean really think about it, how does it impact you in such a negative way? I mean i have thought of all the ways this might impact my day to day life, and it really doesn't. It's simply part of their religion and belief, i couldn't care less about them, like i couldn't care less about a catholic church, because i think it's all hocus pocus anyway.

It becomes the attitudes we have, the way we avoid muslim people for example, the way we discriminate. I mean it isn't hard to give these people a chance. They are human beings and are fleeing a homeland that is pretty horrendous. Not every Muslim is an extremist that wants to commit a crime on Bourke Street (for example). They just want a crack at it, and the more bigotry and racism we exhibit then the real vulnerable types get pushed into a corner and look for a 'way out', enter your extreme ISIS terrorist looking to find common ground with this poor blighter, and you guessed it, they turn to Religion.

If Religion is something that a muslim finds solace in, so be it, if it allows them peace, then i've got no issues with it.

The thing is, this isn't easy, and it will take a lot of time, and Politicians and people would prefer to take the easy option whereby we say it's all too hard. Terrorism isn't going away, i mean it's literally a matter of time before something serious happens again, and i shudder to think of a world where my kids are at risk of it, but come on, let's start breaking down these barriers and welcome them as part of Australia. We've already pissed in the faces of Aboriginal people by celebrating Australia Day on the day white anglo-saxons invaded this country and started to decimate the poor bastards, we've got a lot to answer for, as do the radical muslim fanatics hell-bent on exterminating any non-believer, which i find equally as disgusting and shallow, and in turn, a form of discrimination.

We just need to get smarter.
 
The world hasn’t really caught on that if we push the right wingers aside, and develop and inclusive environment to our immigrants, we might have less resistance from immigrants as they feel less ostracised and more socially welcome.

The problem (and we're now seeing it) is that when you push aside and marginalise those right wingers, they also get radicalised.

There are internet movements springing up all over the place that are doing what IS are doing (to young disenfranchised Muslim mem) and are radicalising young right wing men who feel disenfranchised.

Stir up s**t, share on social media, create outrage, attract likes and subscribers. Spread lies. Repeat.
 
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