Why is abortion a live issue in Australian politics again?

[liz]

Nothing mentioned in the article. Quite thorough mention of the social and mental health stressors that influenced the decision to terminate. I am also discussing points of consideration for posters in this thread that view termination as the only option for women in similar situations.

Maybe the newspaper should have published the woman's case file, together with all the documented assessment by the relevant doctors, so that everyone can make up their own mind.

No doubt you're familiar with the decision-making frameworks and the criteria that these doctors must apply. I'm not, but the following provides a high level description (for the layperson) of the process. See para 6.2.3 (pp. 7-8).

https://www1.health.nsw.gov.au/pds/ActivePDSDocuments/PD2021_018.pdf

 

[RedStarUncle]

It's only doctor's we are talking about. Way too much reliance on them from some posters in this thread that they are always going to make the best decision. It's actually a very Paternalistic attitude to have - "Doctor knows best". However, often medical doctor's are not the best placed professionals to be making decisions pertaining to social supports that may be available to help those in distressing situations. It's relevant in this case as the stressors of the Mother, which apparently drove the Doctor's to support the termination, could have been more thoroughly assessed if she was referred to a professional Social Worker and mental health professional to more adequately address and respond to the Mother's particular social and emotional needs that as per the article were the main driver's that led to the woman considering termination as her only option.

I work in an area where I see medical doctor's refer people in distressing social and mental health situations to other health professionals such as Social Workers whom have better skill for assessing their needs and are better connected and have better knowledge of support services that can alleviate the pressure's on people's lives.

So... you're arguing for greater relaxation of restriction for late term abortions... in that you want any professional in a health field to be able to make decisions on abortions not just doctors???

 

[Cmarsh]

Maybe the newspaper should have published the woman's case file, together with all the documented assessment by the relevant doctors, so that everyone can make up their own mind.

No doubt you're familiar with the decision-making frameworks and the criteria that these doctors must apply. I'm not, but the following provides a high level description (for the layperson) of the process. See para 6.2.3 (pp. 7-8).

https://www1.health.nsw.gov.au/pds/ActivePDSDocuments/PD2021_018.pdf

No need to be factious. Just attempting to add points of consideration that have not been discussed in this thread.

 

[Cmarsh]

So... you're arguing for greater relaxation of restriction for late term abortions... in that you want any professional in a health field to be able to make decisions on abortions not just doctors???

Other health professionals can add to the decision making process in deciding the best coarse of action where appropriate other than exclusively making it the domain of Doctors.

 

[RedStarUncle]

Other health professionals can add to the decision making process in deciding the best coarse of action where appropriate other than exclusively making it the domain of Doctors.

That's already true. Except regardless of that input, it ultimately falls on the two independent doctors to sign off on a decision to abort.


So you either want to keep things as they are, open it up so that any 2 health professionals can sign off on the decision, or you want to somehow grant a veto power to non-doctors to overrule on approving an abortion? Or make the decision 2 doctors plus some other number of other professions?

 

[Gralin]

Your disinterest in the situation aside, the existing laws have been erased and you’re there with a pen. What do you do?

Again I’m not asking you whether you’re interested. I’m asking what you think the rules should be.

Or is this just your roundabout way of saying you support abortions up to birth with zero restrictions?

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

I don't look at abortion from the angle of how can I limit access to it.

I'm not going to give you a starting point to argue from because that's what you're looking for because that's what you do.

It's not my place to say what is medically relevant, it's nobody's place to say what is morally relevant.

And it's literally none of my business why anyone has an abortion. If they want to tell me they can but it's not my business and I don't need or want a say in it.

You on the other hand think it is your business and you, who will never personally need to access the medical care believe you have a right to decide who can, when, how and why.

 

[liz]

That's already true. Except regardless of that input, it ultimately falls on the two independent doctors to sign off on a decision to abort.


So you either want to keep things as they are, open it up so that any 2 health professionals can sign off on the decision, or you want to somehow grant a veto power to non-doctors to overrule on approving an abortion? Or make the decision 2 doctors plus some other number of other professions?

BF poll?

 

[ElectricG]

I don't know how much clearer I can be.

I don't look at abortion from the angle of how can I limit access to it.

I'm not going to give you a starting point to argue from because that's what you're looking for because that's what you do.

It's not my place to say what is medically relevant, it's nobody's place to say what is morally relevant.

And it's literally none of my business why anyone has an abortion. If they want to tell me they can but it's not my business and I don't need or want a say in it.

You on the other hand think it is your business and you, who will never personally need to access the medical care believe you have a right to decide who can, when, how and why.

Given you have apparently no views on the subject then I should probably just ignore it when you are so scathing about mine.

 

[Gralin]

Given you have apparently no views on the subject then I should probably just ignore it when you are so scathing about mine.

I mean I just expressed my view

 

[ElectricG]

I mean I just expressed my view

No I asked you a question and you wouldn’t answer it.

 

[Cmarsh]

No I asked you a question and you wouldn’t answer it.

Some draw the line at something like only doing termination for the purposes of sex selection. For others that is still ok.

 

[Gralin]

No I asked you a question and you wouldn’t answer it.

Correct

That doesn't mean I haven't expressed my views on abortion though.

I've also explained why I'm not answering that question

 

[ElectricG]

Correct

That doesn't mean I haven't expressed my views on abortion though.

I've also explained why I'm not answering that question

I know why you won’t answer.

 

[Gough]

Some draw the line at something like only doing termination for the purposes of sex selection. For others that is still ok.

I think a good enough reason for someone having an abortion is that they want one.

 

[Cmarsh]

I think a good enough reason for someone having an abortion is that they want one.

In all circumstances?

 

[Gough]

In all circumstances?

Pretty much.

 

[Cmarsh]

Pretty much.

So women wanted a girl but finds she is carrying a boy and now wants a termination. All ok?

 

[Gralin]

This is why I don't entertain where do you draw the line questions

 

[Gough]

So women wanted a girl but finds she is carrying a boy and now wants a termination. All ok?

Why not? I've lived with women who've had abortions and it's ghastly for them, the last thing you'd do is question their motivations.

 

[carltonchelsea]

So women wanted a girl but finds she is carrying a boy and now wants a termination. All ok?

Again, what has it got to do with you, what’s your motivation for sticking your unwanted nose into someone’s personal decisions and their lives?
Stay out of their houses and bedrooms, you’re entering very creepy territory dude.

 

[Cmarsh]

Again, what has it got to do with you, what’s your motivation for sticking your unwanted nose into someone’s personal decisions and their lives?
Stay out of their houses and bedrooms, you’re entering very creepy territory dude.

Lol its not creepy at all to question people's beliefs and decisions. That happens on this forum all the time. So that situation is all ok with you is it? Simple yes or no. Or do you just take the avoidance route again.

 

[Gough]

Lol its not creepy at all to question people's beliefs and decisions. That happens on this forum all the time. So that situation is all ok with you is it? Simple yes or no. Or do you just take the avoidance route again.

When it has to do with a person's bodily autonomy it is.

 

[Cmarsh]

When it has to do with a person's bodily autonomy it is.

Oh that's the only factor in that situation is it. Ok.

 

[Gough]

Oh that's the only factor in that situation is it. Ok.

How would you feel if you were told certain healthcare isn't available to you?

 

[carltonchelsea]

Lol its not creepy at all to question people's beliefs and decisions. That happens on this forum all the time. So that situation is all ok with you is it? Simple yes or no. Or do you just take the avoidance route again.

You want intimate knowledge about something deeply personal to a woman.
That makes you creepy, unless your so called ‘medical qualifications’ have some bearing on that information in your field and job.
We question people’s beliefs on a huge range of topics, subjects and issues around here yes…..
If someone wants to share deeper personal information, that’s their choice.
Do you understand the difference here?
What has a woman’s personal choice what to do with her bodily autonomy have to do with you?
You keep avoiding that, and what area do you work in in the medical community?