Religion Why is Antisemitism such a big deal but hate against other religions not so much?

[ElectricG]

The existence of antisemitism doesnt alter or affect the existence of Islamophobia.

I’m just contesting the claim that people only care about antisemitism

 

[evolved2]

Atheistophobia (fear of atheism) is probably the biggest form of religious hatred imo.

Discrimination against atheists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Ex-religious atheists often suffer horrible victimisation at the hands of the religious. In many nations, they can't even be open about their lack of faith for fear of persecution.

 

[Hoop1888]

Never heard of an atheist being persecuted by any religious groups - which is quite the contradiction as I imagine those opposed to it are supposed to be about 'peace, love and respect' for people of different beliefs.

I'd imagine Catholicism was frowned upon in Australia when the British ruled there. After 9/11, the political editor of the Sun newspaper, wrote a piece about Islamic terrorism and how lucky IRA members who, according to him, were all dye in the wool Catholics and only because Catholicism forbids suicide, the British public were fortunate as they would have surely pulled off suicide bombings. Remember feeling almost offended for both Catholics and Muslims alike and perhaps it was my own fault for reading the Sun.

 

[Carn The Berries]

I’m just contesting the claim that people only care about antisemitism

Oh yeah, that time when some people were concerned about violence against Islamic people. I totally remember the government rushing in an special envoy for Islamaphobia.

Took them nearly 6 months, and to be dragged kicking and screaming, to implement the one they promised at the same time as the SE for antisemitism.

 

[evolved2]

Never heard of an atheist being persecuted by any religious groups - which is quite the contradiction as I imagine those opposed to it are supposed to be about 'peace, love and respect' for people of different beliefs.

I'd imagine Catholicism was frowned upon in Australia when the British ruled there. After 9/11, the political editor of the Sun newspaper, wrote a piece about Islamic terrorism and how lucky IRA members who, according to him, were all dye in the wool Catholics and only because Catholicism forbids suicide, the British public were fortunate as they would have surely pulled off suicide bombings. Remember feeling almost offended for both Catholics and Muslims alike and perhaps it was my own fault for reading the Sun.

Atheists currently face death under law in 13 countries, all Islamic.

Blasphemy laws were only repealed in NZ and Greece as recently as 2019, and they still exist in NSW (although they aren't viewed as legally enforceable).

Four-in-ten countries and territories worldwide had blasphemy laws in 2019

79 countries and territories out of the 198 studied around the world (40%) had laws or policies in 2019 banning blasphemy.

www.pewresearch.org

Hitler persecuted atheists - "We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out."

Religious views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the United States, seven state constitutions include religious tests that would effectively prevent atheists from holding public office, and in some cases being a juror/witness, though these have not generally been enforced since the early twentieth century.

A 2014 study by the University of Minnesota found that 42% of respondents characterized atheists as a group that did "not at all agree with my vision of American society", and that 44% would not want their child to marry an atheist. The negative attitudes towards atheists were higher than negative attitudes towards African-Americans and homosexuals but lower than the negative attitudes towards Muslims.

Discrimination against atheists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[checkraiseulite]

****ing weird thread.

 

[Malifice]

Atheists currently face death under law in 13 countries, all Islamic.

As abhorrrent as that is, how many people are executued by those 13 countries for Athiesm?

Those laws arent really enforced that much are they?

Hitler persecuted atheists

No he (and the Nazis) did not. He did persecute many other religious groups though, in particular Jewish people.

Im not saying athiests are not discriminated against. I am saying its not on the same level as the discrimination that Jewish people face, and have faced for millenia.

 

[FreoRicci]

1/ Agree with everything that Malifice wrote, the holocaust, the pogroms, and a history of violent discrimination dating back a couple of thousand years

2/ When does it end? Do you mean when do people “get over” something like the holocaust? Not in your lifetime or my lifetime. Probably not for hundreds of years.

Why, for part 2?

Are we just going to have to continue to be sorry/sympathetic? It is a horrific story.

I’ve been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. It was humbling, eerie and a lesson of humanity’s worst and best. I didn’t leave that place the same.

But there’s genocide every day, every year since- especially in Africa which has seen more deaths in a time period then that of 1930-1945. It never gets spoken enough, if at all. Don’t think people actually realise the atrocities otherwise then Holocaust that genocide has brought upon.

It doesn’t excuse what’s happening right now by Israel. It doesn’t excuse such hatred of surrounding countries.

 

[FreoRicci]

I’m just contesting the claim that people only care about antisemitism

Surely this is common knowledge.
Islamophobia is hysterical especially in the West. The ignorant and misinformation about Islam is ridiculous.

Go to the Mosque, learn about the teachings and it’s nothing what the West media spouts.

The issue is how much Christians get away with. Untouchable, never spoken about yet commit atrocities and clearly a profiteering racket for many.

 

[Cactus_]

Why, for part 2?

Are we just going to have to continue to be sorry/sympathetic? It is a horrific story.

I’ve been to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. It was humbling, eerie and a lesson of humanity’s worst and best. I didn’t leave that place the same.

But there’s genocide every day, every year since- especially in Africa which has seen more deaths in a time period then that of 1930-1945. It never gets spoken enough, if at all. Don’t think people actually realise the atrocities otherwise then Holocaust that genocide has brought upon.

It doesn’t excuse what’s happening right now by Israel. It doesn’t excuse such hatred of surrounding countries.

Well, there are still lots of anti-Jewish conspiracy theories, and holocaust denial, and frequent attacks on Jewish people

So while that is still going on I imagine it is going to be hard for there to be a lot of healing, or forgiveness

And on your other point I’m not sure why the fact that many other atrocities have happened, and continue to happen, should be used to downplay the holocaust

This may be provocative, but I feel like people saying “there are lots of other genocides” is a more socially acceptable way of telling Jewish people to be quiet and stop complaining, and essentially saying that what happened to their families is no worse than what happened to lots of other peoples’ families, so what’s the big deal . . . it doesn’t sit well with me.

 

[Total Power]

As abhorrrent as that is, how many people are executued by those 13 countries for Athiesm?

Those laws arent really enforced that much are they?

Dude, this is a silly post.

Do you really think someone in Pakistan will come out and say they are atheists? almost all my Muslim friends living in the Europe still identify themselves as Muslims, due to household pressure. They are not even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.

Imagine needing to pretend to believe in that BS or be put to death. How can you reconcile actually killing someone for simply not believing what you want them to? Psychotic. Blasphemy laws strictly apply in these countries, if you offend someone, you're either getting done for offending someone or public flogging is the way to go.

Do you really think they are outspoken atheists in Pakistan? do some reading on this.

 

[ZEV]

But there’s genocide every day, every year since- especially in Africa which has seen more deaths in a time period then that of 1930-1945. It never gets spoken enough, if at all. Don’t think people actually realise the atrocities otherwise then Holocaust that genocide has brought upon.

Interesting perspective.

I compiled a list of the genocides that have taken place in Africa including the Masalit, Tigray, Darfur, Effacer le table, Hutu, Rwandan, Isaaq, Gukurahundi, Ugandan and Ikiza Genocides.

Between 1.268 million (lowest estimates) and 3.763 million (highest estimates) Africans died due to genocide from 1964.

The victims of the genocides were targeted for their tribes, clans, religions, race and ethnicities. There was not one minority solely targeted.

Your statement is clearly false.

Your misrepresentation of facts is a clear form of Holocaust distortion and is a form of anti-semitism.

But there’s genocide every day, every year since- especially in Africa which has seen more deaths in a time period then that of 1930-1945. It never gets spoken enough, if at all.

Ironic that you state this and then make false claims pertaining to these events.

It doesn’t excuse such hatred of surrounding countries.

Surely this is common knowledge.
Islamophobia is hysterical especially in the West. The ignorant and misinformation about Islam is ridiculous.

Although I agree with you about Islamophobia, I do find your lack of self awareness and prejudice slightly amusing.

 

[ZEV]

Dude, this is a silly post.

Do you really think someone in Pakistan will come out and say they are atheists? almost all my Muslim friends living in the Europe still identify themselves as Muslims, due to household pressure. They are not even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia.

Imagine needing to pretend to believe in that BS or be put to death. How can you reconcile actually killing someone for simply not believing what you want them to? Psychotic. Blasphemy laws strictly apply in these countries, if you offend someone, you're either getting done for offending someone or public flogging is the way to go.

Do you really think they are outspoken atheists in Pakistan? do some reading on this.

Was just doing some reading of the Pakistani criminal code; may be a bit strict on the religious things but doensn't sound like OH&S is such a big deal....

80.

Accident in doing a lawful act: Nothing is an offence which is done by accident or misfortune, and without any criminal intention or knowledge in the doing of a lawful act in a lawful manner by lawful means and with proper care and caution. Illustration​ A is at work with a hatchet; the head flies off and kills a man who is standing by. Here if there was no want of proper caution on the part of A, his act is excusable and not an offence.

 

[Crankyhawk]

1/ Agree with everything that Malifice wrote, the holocaust, the pogroms, and a history of violent discrimination dating back a couple of thousand years

2/ When does it end? Do you mean when do people “get over” something like the holocaust? Not in your lifetime or my lifetime. Probably not for hundreds of years.

For me Judaism “special status “ has ended due to the Israeli government showing open desire for expansion and slaughter of Palestinians. So no special protections. The holocaust is now just an object lesson for man’s inhumanity, as are many others in history.

 

[ElectricG]

For me Judaism “special status “ has ended due to the Israeli government showing open desire for expansion and slaughter of Palestinians. So no special protections. The holocaust is now just an object lesson for man’s inhumanity, as are many others in history.

“Time’s up, Jews”

 

[evolved2]

As abhorrrent as that is, how many people are executued by those 13 countries for Athiesm?

Those laws arent really enforced that much are they?

An implied threat is still a threat.

Atheists and apostates living in Islamic nations stfu for their own wellbeing.

No he (and the Nazis) did not. He did persecute many other religious groups though, in particular Jewish people.

Disagree. The nazis used Christian nationalism as a basis to persecute many people groups, including atheists. Do you have any thoughts about the Hitler quote I shared?

Im not saying athiests are not discriminated against. I am saying its not on the same level as the discrimination that Jewish people face, and have faced for millenia.

I disagree, but have no desire to debate the issue in length.

 

[Cactus_]

For me Judaism “special status “ has ended due to the Israeli government showing open desire for expansion and slaughter of Palestinians. So no special protections. The holocaust is now just an object lesson for man’s inhumanity, as are many others in history.

I don’t feel the same way about it

To me the actions of Netanyahu’s Israel don’t change the way I think about the holocaust at all

As I was trying to explain in my earlier post I really don’t like this comparing atrocities with each other, or saying that one atrocity might “cancel” another – I don’t understand why that is necessary or what is gained by it – I think it is just a way of invalidating the way millions of Jewish people feel about what was done to their families (and the ongoing vulnerability they feel)

I guess it is fine for you to view the holocaust as “just” and objective lessons, but many, or most, Jewish people aren’t going to see it that way, and I can’t see that changing for generations to come, which I guess was my original point

 

[Cactus_]

Disagree. The nazis used Christian nationalism as a basis to persecute many people groups, including atheists. Do you have any thoughts about the Hitler quote I shared?

Well, the Nazis also killed Dietrich Bonhoeffer

People who commit atrocities need excuses and love to claim Christianity (and other religions) as a justification for their actions

The fact that mass murder is the diametrical opposite of the teaching of Christ doesn’t bother them in the slightest

 

[Elixuh]

It’s as big a deal, if it’s occurring, as any of the other isms. It’s prevalent in our minds at the moment because the Israeli government is using the term for everything and to justify doing whatever it wants, including genociding a population it doesn’t see as people.

 

[Crankyhawk]

I don’t feel the same way about it

To me the actions of Netanyahu’s Israel don’t change the way I think about the holocaust at all

As I was trying to explain in my earlier post I really don’t like this comparing atrocities with each other, or saying that one atrocity might “cancel” another – I don’t understand why that is necessary or what is gained by it – I think it is just a way of invalidating the way millions of Jewish people feel about what was done to their families (and the ongoing vulnerability they feel)

I guess it is fine for you to view the holocaust as “just” and objective lessons, but many, or most, Jewish people aren’t going to see it that way, and I can’t see that changing for generations to come, which I guess was my original point

Did I say it was just (as in justified)Or am I misreading your post and you mean “just” as in my meaning of “just another horrible moment in history “ - if the after then yes this is what I am conveying.

 

[Crankyhawk]

It’s as big a deal, if it’s occurring, as any of the other isms. It’s prevalent in our minds at the moment because the Israeli government is using the term for everything and to justify doing whatever it wants, including genociding a population it doesn’t see as people.

But it is no longer a bigger deal than the other isms ie view in the lens of what the antisemitic person is doing or saying

 

[Crankyhawk]

“Time’s up, Jews”

Yep “you are no longer special”
And as to any ****er who thinks they are gods special people - you aren’t and I have no intent to treat you special or validate your self beliefs

 

[ElectricG]

Yep “you are no longer special”
And as to any ****er who thinks they are gods special people - you aren’t and I have no intent to treat you special or validate your self beliefs

I have literally never heard any person say that in an argument about antisemitism, anywhere, ever.

 

[Cactus_]

Did I say it was just (as in justified)Or am I misreading your post and you mean “just” as in my meaning of “just another horrible moment in history “ - if the after then yes this is what I am conveying.

I meant the second, “just” as in “only”

(And while you’re quite entitled to think that and express that opinion, I disagree with you for the reasons I mentioned above)

 

[ZEV]

Yep “you are no longer special”
And as to any ****er who thinks they are gods special people - you aren’t and I have no intent to treat you special or validate your self beliefs

My special people status doesn't allow me access to the Hamas thread but here is a screenshot of something I explained a little while ago there.



Not asking for any special treatment or validation but please don't spread hateful rhetoric about things you clearly have no idea about.