Brilliant post RL. If feasible it should be pinned to the top of the Fitzroy Board.As bad as North?
Fitzroy could have survived and prospered. Fitzroy in 1992-93 was a very competitive side. Crowds of 50,000 and above for some Fitzroy games in 1992 and 1993, as well as crowds of above 25,000 for pre-season games showed that the club could attract spectators, if competitive. The club actually made a profit in 1993, they'd finally got a social club that was making money through the Fitzroy Club Hotel (purchased in March 1992) and were making plans to return to the Brunswick Street Oval (just up the road from the Fitzroy Club Hotel) as a training and administration base. The club had actually gained approval from the Council in 1992 to do just that, but just couldn't find the spare $250,000 to renovate the old heritage grandstand and build a modern gymnasium over the existing community rooms.
Fitzroy actually made a small annual profit from 1993-95, courtesy of their social club just up from the BSO.
Fitzroy chairman Dyson Hore-Lacy stated quite categorically on a number of occasions that if Fitzroy had been able to access an extra million dollars from sponsors or some other source in 1996, they would not have sought a merger with North Melbourne, Brisbane or anyone else. Since then, beginning in 2002, other Melbourne based clubs have received tens of millions of dollars from the Competitive Balance Fund and other AFL sources.
A selection of figures for example:
2002: Western Bulldogs - $1 million
2003: Western Bulldogs - $1 million, North Melbourne - $1 million
2004: Western Bulldogs - $1.5 million, North Melbourne - $1 million
2005: Melbourne $1.5 million + $1.5 million retrospectively, Western Bulldogs $1.5 million, North Melbourne $1 million.
2006: Carlton - $2.1 million
2007: Western Bulldogs $1.7 million, North Melbourne $1.4 million, Melbourne $1 million, Sydney Swans $0.7 million, Richmond $0.4 million, Hawthorn $0.25 million, Port Adelaide $0.25 million
2008: Melbourne - $250,000, Western Bulldogs $1.7 million, North Melbourne $1.4 million
2009: Melbourne - $1 million, Port Adelaide - $1 million
Western Bulldogs - $8.4 million
North Melbourne - $5.8 million
Melbourne - $5.25 million
Carlton - $2.1 million
Had Fitzroy received the same amount of money in 1996 as any of the above four clubs they would:
1. have NOT sought a merger and continued to field a team independently in the AFL.
2. have paid off their only secured creditor - Nauru - to whom they owed $1.25 million - which meant an administrator would not have been appointed
3. have redeveloped Brunswick Street Oval as a permanent training base. (As i already said, this step already had the approval of the Fitzroy Council and needed $250,000 to bring it to fruition).
4. have paid 100% of the cap - thereby being able to retain their players and remain competitive.
5. have developed their recruiting zone out Balwyn and Doncaster way, thereby developing a significant supporter base and increasing their membership (particularly if they were competitive).
Not having a home ground to make money from hurt a lot. In 1993, Fitzroy made nothing from Princes Park, their home ground and in fact were billed $6,000 by Carlton for use of the ground. The compulsory ground rationalisation of the 80's was an event that really hurt Fitzroy and prevented them from being more competitive.
So a move to the Docklands might have helped Fitzroy's bottom line as well.
So with some financial aid, Fitzroy could have secured a permanent training base at the BSO, moved to the Docklands as their home ground and maybe also played some home games interstate either in Canberra or Tasmania as well as rebuilding their list through the draft, while continuing to make profits courtesy of their social club.
Never forgave Glenn James for a few quesionable decisions after that game. What could have been had we gone on from there...I had only ever watched the final quarter of the infamous 1983 Qualifying Final. Though for a brief moment this afternoon my temptation got the better of me and I watched the beginning of the match. Alas I could only make it through to the 1.50 mark of the video as Rodney Eade got away with a blatant deliberate out of bounds in the very same pocket as Nettlefold. I feel so dirty.
Is a fantastic podcast. The whole lot is. But the Fitzroy episode is great. RecommendNo idea where to post this, didn't want to start a new thread...
There's a new footy podcast about the 93 season and one of the episodes focuses on Fitzroy's season.
Some excellent stories are told.
Here's the link...
Yeah but how amazing was Bernie Quinlan’s 5 goal last quarter. The single greatest performance by any player in a quarter of football in any final in history!I had only ever watched the final quarter of the infamous 1983 Qualifying Final. Though for a brief moment this afternoon my temptation got the better of me and I watched the beginning of the match. Alas I could only make it through to the 1.50 mark of the video as Rodney Eade got away with a blatant deliberate out of bounds in the very same pocket as Nettlefold. I feel so dirty.
It's because we are technically two different entities (and the Bears too). Sometimes, depending on the context, they DO count, but officially, the Brisbane Lions were formed to start playing in 1997, and only records following then count. Of course, both previous clubs' histories are very very important to the current Lions, and are observed as a part of the rich overall culture.Hey guys, not meaning to intrude here. I'm not totally across things around the Fitzrory/Brisbane Bears Brisbane Lions thing. I do have one simple question, which is why do Fitzroy premierships not count for the Brisbane Lions, when South Melbourne count for Sydney? And had the Bears won one would that count towards Brisbane Lions current total? Again just curious as I'm not totally across how it all went down and dont mean to offend or anything like that!
Not going to happen - it’s a generation ago - the majority of kids today would have no idea who Fitzroy wasHey guys, I have a question but it's pretty stupid so bear with me. It's also pretty hypothetical.
First question: Is there any way possible that Fitzroy could be reinstated as a team within the main competition? Not any time soon as I assume AFLHQ want to branch out before coming back to "new" teams in Melbourne, but at some point from now until the end of time.
Now let's just say the answer to that is yes, my real question is, would Fitzroy pick up where they left off or would they start fresh? Would it affect the lions in anyway? There's too much history to just ignore, but I wonder how that situation would make the faithful feel and what they would want to see.
I doubt it. While the former AFL club still exists in its own right, the club would need about $30 million to even have a chance of gettig abck in the AFL. And then only woth the agreement of the AFL Commission and the constituent clubs.First question: Is there any way possible that Fitzroy could be reinstated as a team within the main competition?
Same club, so they'd pick up where they left off. Same as if they rejoined the VFA (now called the VFL)Now let's just say the answer to that is yes, my real question is, would Fitzroy pick up where they left off or would they start fresh?
Mostly no. They wouldn't have to commemorate Fitzroy's AFL history any more. But Brisbane would probably remain the Lions as this is now an AFL trademark. Fitzroy would have to find another nickname. Maybe the "Maroons" in the same way Carlton are the "Blues"Would it affect the lions in anyway?
I'd personally like to see the Fitzroy Lions playing in the red, blue and gold, training and HQ at the Brunswick Street Oval with home ground at the MCG.There's too much history to just ignore, but I wonder how that situation would make the faithful feel and what they would want to see.
On another topic, mate, WP should have stayed at Leedy, EP should have stayed at Perth Oval, and either Perth Glory get a new stadium or an existing soccer ground should have been redeveloped to fit them - terrible planning all around. As a WP fan, I went to two EP v WP games at Perth Oval in the 1990s, including the second-last one ever played there, in 1998, which attracted 4,000 fans. Perth Oval for EP v WP was always a magnificent place, and I miss it. I have even been to Glory games and spent time looking at that magnificent old stand and the trees which remain around the ground.Being an East Perth diehard and a sworn enemy of West Perth, I certainly remember Laurie Richards, passmark.
He caused my beloved Royals grief in the 1969 WAFL Grand Final and could certainly take a speccie.
I recall seeing Richards play for the Cardinals/Falcons at Leederville Oval in Round 21, 1978 (showing my age), a game East Perth won en route to the premiership (not forgetting that 1978 also saw the Mighty Roys win the VFL night premiership).
East Perth had four ex Roys playing that day - Wayne Duke, Ian McCulloch (started his career with EP), Ian Miller and Glenn Robertson - while Richards and John Duckworth were in West Perth's line-up.
Fitzroy would have trashed North in the semi,while Hawthorn barely come out alive against Essendon. The Hawks have enough energy to out the roos, but get trounced by the Lions in the Granny.Never forgave Glenn James for a few quesionable decisions after that game. What could have been had we gone on from there...