Why our game plan wins – A thesis

Remove this Banner Ad

Grrr

Brownlow Medallist
Aug 16, 2009
11,564
26,257
mildura
AFL Club
Richmond
I just have one question. How did we manage to dominate clearences all of a sudden in finals?
In the round 11 game we lost the count 40-22 against port.
In the Prelim we won 41-29.
Big Nank smashed them at ground level and Cotchin was back, who smashes also. Prestia was also back I think.
 

Ceehook

Club Legend
Oct 3, 2017
1,325
3,550
AFL Club
Richmond
why our game plan wins ?

because it keeps evolving


in 2017 when we were trying to go small in the forward line
we would bomb the ball into the forward 50 and our smalls fly against their opponents
half hearted attempts to mark , but lots of body on body, it was enough to spill the ball free and the mosquito fleet got to work

the football world caught on and would engage the body and the third man up would take a near uncontested mark
we in turn responded

2020
centre clearances weren't big for us but our coaches felt they were key in the covid 16 min quarters and smaller grounds
and mid season we changed to winning centre clearances and setting up our forward line around it

each year has seen the game style change from the previous year and also change within a season

my guess is that just like the players and the Richmond man thing is that
Dimma
coaches
senior players
remaining players
over the past 4 years , all groups are brain storming and contributing to our evolving game style
they seemed to have created a happy productive environment were people aren't afraid to speak up

as Prestia and Lynch got their games into full flight we've adapted to take advantage
as various seniors players copped injuries we adapted and quickly
and the opposition are constantly trying to stop parts of our play , so far we've found the right responses

bring on 2021
Go Tiges :)
 

Log in to remove this ad.

Jan 13, 2005
18,896
48,637
The Hospital
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Golden State, Daniel Rioli
I just have one question. How did we manage to dominate clearences all of a sudden in finals?
In the round 11 game we lost the count 40-22 against port.
In the Prelim we won 41-29.

Because we’re actually a really good contested and clearance side. Between 2011-2015 we were generally a top 4 in the AFL for contested possessions and clearances

The reality is we worked out a different, more successful, game style but when we need to we can throw Cotch, Prestia, Dusty and Edwards into the middle to win the ball.
 
Jul 3, 2008
10,973
19,385
eastern-most tiger in the nation
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Abers
why our game plan wins ?

because it keeps evolving


in 2017 when we were trying to go small in the forward line
we would bomb the ball into the forward 50 and our smalls fly against their opponents
half hearted attempts to mark , but lots of body on body, it was enough to spill the ball free and the mosquito fleet got to work

the football world caught on and would engage the body and the third man up would take a near uncontested mark
we in turn responded

2020
centre clearances weren't big for us but our coaches felt they were key in the covid 16 min quarters and smaller grounds
and mid season we changed to winning centre clearances and setting up our forward line around it

each year has seen the game style change from the previous year and also change within a season

my guess is that just like the players and the Richmond man thing is that
Dimma
coaches
senior players
remaining players
over the past 4 years , all groups are brain storming and contributing to our evolving game style
they seemed to have created a happy productive environment were people aren't afraid to speak up

as Prestia and Lynch got their games into full flight we've adapted to take advantage
as various seniors players copped injuries we adapted and quickly
and the opposition are constantly trying to stop parts of our play , so far we've found the right responses

bring on 2021
Go Tiges :)
The small in the fwd line is interesting. I think in 2017 we used 37+ players. i.e. a lot. I think Ben Griffiths played, Todd Elton played a few games. So the small fwd line set up was just how the year ended.
 
The small in the fwd line is interesting. I think in 2017 we used 37+ players. i.e. a lot. I think Ben Griffiths played, Todd Elton played a few games. So the small fwd line set up was just how the year ended.

Dimma did say that we played JR alone out of necessity not choice. But that period was so successful I reckon it really helped make the club go as far down the small pressure route as they could.
 

All Aust

Avatar for ol' mate
Oct 29, 2020
2,468
5,142
AFL Club
Richmond
Because we’re actually a really good contested and clearance side. Between 2011-2015 we were generally a top 4 in the AFL for contested possessions and clearances

The reality is we worked out a different, more successful, game style but when we need to we can throw Cotch, Prestia, Dusty and Edwards into the middle to win the ball.
A general game plan before the Port round match last yr was to concede a pressured clearance to high half back, zoning to secure a turnover. Opponents become out of position if they run too hard towards their scoring end.

Port did a couple of things in that game.

Rather than clear forward, they fed clearances to a winger who became a longer kicker into the forward line, disrupting the high defensive zone, and
They tackled /contested hard which rankled the whole Richmond team resulting in ill disciplined free kicks and penalties.

This was not lost on the Lions match reviewers.

The tweak to winning clearances through a soccer / chaos ball mix where the ball is even more likely to be low to the ground, is anti "elite" football but effective. It continually keeps opposition sides unbalanced and uncertain. It hardens Richmond players up, it reduces the number of "outside" players.

It places a responsibility on the ruckman to at least halve every dead ball contest. Players have to be elite at a range of 1-5 metre foot and hand skills conducted below knee level, without drop off in the traditional game skills.

As a club, Richmond have placed an emphasis on individual and team psychology to achieve discipline resulting in a high acceptance, understanding, trust and support in team systems. There is still RFI for coaches and players to have better knowledge of week to week umpire interpretations as the number 50 metre penalties conceded are high. They are costly.
 
Oct 11, 2003
9,409
11,252
somewhere in the jungle something is lurking
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
tigers
why our game plan wins ?

because it keeps evolving


in 2017 when we were trying to go small in the forward line
we would bomb the ball into the forward 50 and our smalls fly against their opponents
half hearted attempts to mark , but lots of body on body, it was enough to spill the ball free and the mosquito fleet got to work

the football world caught on and would engage the body and the third man up would take a near uncontested mark
we in turn responded

2020
centre clearances weren't big for us but our coaches felt they were key in the covid 16 min quarters and smaller grounds
and mid season we changed to winning centre clearances and setting up our forward line around it

each year has seen the game style change from the previous year and also change within a season

my guess is that just like the players and the Richmond man thing is that
Dimma
coaches
senior players
remaining players
over the past 4 years , all groups are brain storming and contributing to our evolving game style
they seemed to have created a happy productive environment were people aren't afraid to speak up

as Prestia and Lynch got their games into full flight we've adapted to take advantage
as various seniors players copped injuries we adapted and quickly
and the opposition are constantly trying to stop parts of our play , so far we've found the right responses

bring on 2021
Go Tiges :)
So what’s the evolution now that essdrugs are doing same gameplay
 

Disco_Stu

Club Legend
Dec 4, 2004
1,242
5,893
Melbourne
AFL Club
Richmond
I just have one question. How did we manage to dominate clearences all of a sudden in finals?
In the round 11 game we lost the count 40-22 against port.
In the Prelim we won 41-29.

Hinkley said on 360 after the loss that he allowed us to have a +1 at stoppage which was strange for us, and he takes the blame for not equaling that up quick enough. He'd hoped Port's +1 in our forward line would be more useful than ours at stoppage.

Narrator: It wasn't.
 

Ceehook

Club Legend
Oct 3, 2017
1,325
3,550
AFL Club
Richmond
So what’s the evolution now that essdrugs are doing same gameplay
thats no surprise with Rutten and Carracella coaching
they'll impart what they know

whats our evolution from last year ?
Dimma was saying uncontested marks double what they would have been last year
needs to see more games

when you are in our position you don't have to totally re invent ypur self , just tweak according to rules , new players , opposition
 
So what’s the evolution now that essdrugs are doing same gameplay

The Druggies don't have our players and it will take time to learn the discipline. Given our game is based around repeat efforts in a strongly structured game plan, that also allows freedom to do creative stuff you need 1) players who can go all day and still do it well (don't reckon the bombers have recruited for this), 2) discipline and togetherness/unselfishness (opposite of their style until now- not easy to change), and 3) players that are really good at the creative stuff in tight (not sure on this, but they recruited more for outside ball movement). So they don't worry me too much now. Maybe in a few years when they might have turned the place around. But the Hird cultists will stab them in the back by then.
 
A general game plan before the Port round match last yr was to concede a pressured clearance to high half back, zoning to secure a turnover. Opponents become out of position if they run too hard towards their scoring end.

Port did a couple of things in that game.

Rather than clear forward, they fed clearances to a winger who became a longer kicker into the forward line, disrupting the high defensive zone, and
They tackled /contested hard which rankled the whole Richmond team resulting in ill disciplined free kicks and penalties.

This was not lost on the Lions match reviewers.

The tweak to winning clearances through a soccer / chaos ball mix where the ball is even more likely to be low to the ground, is anti "elite" football but effective. It continually keeps opposition sides unbalanced and uncertain. It hardens Richmond players up, it reduces the number of "outside" players.

It places a responsibility on the ruckman to at least halve every dead ball contest. Players have to be elite at a range of 1-5 metre foot and hand skills conducted below knee level, without drop off in the traditional game skills.

As a club, Richmond have placed an emphasis on individual and team psychology to achieve discipline resulting in a high acceptance, understanding, trust and support in team systems. There is still RFI for coaches and players to have better knowledge of week to week umpire interpretations as the number 50 metre penalties conceded are high. They are costly.

Great post!

Just on the rucks. it took a while but Dimma has come around to having guys that at least break even in the ruck and influence the contest. Soldo would physically move layers around so that it advantaged us. Nank is an oversized ruck rover. Our rucks have become important in us being able to control how the contests evolve. And then they are good at filling holes and doing stuff around the ground, especially Nank. Sometimes sheer size has benefits.
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

Schlurp

Club Legend
Aug 21, 2009
1,344
4,682
Canberra
AFL Club
Richmond
Great post!

Just on the rucks. it took a while but Dimma has come around to having guys that at least break even in the ruck and influence the contest. Soldo would physically move layers around so that it advantaged us. Nank is an oversized ruck rover. Our rucks have become important in us being able to control how the contests evolve. And then they are good at filling holes and doing stuff around the ground, especially Nank. Sometimes sheer size has benefits.
And this is possibly the future role that Chol might most productively fill. Right now he's operating in no man's land territory. He doesn't seem to have the mongrel needed for center clearance work and he hasn't been given continuity in either a forward or back to learn how to play those positions. Rance, Grimes and Astbury were given multiple seasons to show what they could do so I hope we give Chol similar latitude. The upside is potentially exceptional.
 
And this is possibly the future role that Chol might most productively fill. Right now he's operating in no man's land territory. He doesn't seem to have the mongrel needed for center clearance work and he hasn't been given continuity in either a forward or back to learn how to play those positions. Rance, Grimes and Astbury were given multiple seasons to show what they could do so I hope we give Chol similar latitude. The upside is potentially exceptional.

IF Chol could get some mongrel into his game he'd be so good. As a ruck you can't be passive. As you say the upside is so exceptional.
 
TLDR - the reason we win is because we have the most talented list from player 1 to player 30

For the game we play, yes. We have recruited and developed a team that plays as continuous contest style of game. We've gotten intercept rebounding backs, high pressure small forwards, competitive and rounded KPF's + Dusty.

IF we tried to play the Geelong/WCE game we'd be fairly average. But given we don't play that style, then yes you are pretty much right :cool:
 

Laffy2Chaffey2Daffy

All Australian
Nov 14, 2012
636
2,351
Burundi
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Manangatang 3rds
For the game we play, yes. We have recruited and developed a team that plays as continuous contest style of game. We've gotten intercept rebounding backs, high pressure small forwards, competitive and rounded KPF's + Dusty.

IF we tried to play the Geelong/WCE game we'd be fairly average. But given we don't play that style, then yes you are pretty much right :cool:
True to an extent. Our game plan has evolved to suit our strengths. But the whole system/gameplay argument is often used by commentators to underestimate the talent on our list overall and the talent of individuals on our list. Geelong have a strong top dozen or so then fall away. WC bat deeper than Geelong but don’t shine as brightly at the top end as either us or Geelong. Looking at the preseason games many others are trying emulate us, but for all the systems, game plans etc, it is talent that wins you 3 flags.
 

Laffy2Chaffey2Daffy

All Australian
Nov 14, 2012
636
2,351
Burundi
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Manangatang 3rds
P.s. I didn’t read your whole post but I agree with your key point that winning the first clean possession is more valuable than winning the first possession and that has been one of our strengths.
 
True to an extent. Our game plan has evolved to suit our strengths. But the whole system/gameplay argument is often used by commentators to underestimate the talent on our list overall and the talent of individuals on our list. Geelong have a strong top dozen or so then fall away. WC bat deeper than Geelong but don’t shine as brightly at the top end as either us or Geelong. Looking at the preseason games many others are trying emulate us, but for all the systems, game plans etc, it is talent that wins you 3 flags.


As much as I agree, I also think that we have learnt/created a different game plan. It is designed to suit our players absolutely. But carefully watch how we move the ball and how Geelong/WCE move the ball. Or even the copycats in Collingwood, how they move the ball. We will break from a contest and move it 5 to 10 meters. Other teams don't do that in the same way. We have fully taken on the logic of riding the edge of the contest. Other teams, and the traditional way of playing, is to get beyond the edge of the contest and into clean space. By living on the edge (only just thought of that phrase for us, should try to use it more :cool: ) we force the game to be played in a way that suits us. And to copy us requires huge repeat effort players and guys who can deal well with that pressure situation. Cause we live there we are simply better at that style of play than anyone else.
 
Jul 3, 2008
10,973
19,385
eastern-most tiger in the nation
AFL Club
Richmond
Other Teams
Abers
And this is possibly the future role that Chol might most productively fill. Right now he's operating in no man's land territory. He doesn't seem to have the mongrel needed for center clearance work and he hasn't been given continuity in either a forward or back to learn how to play those positions. Rance, Grimes and Astbury were given multiple seasons to show what they could do so I hope we give Chol similar latitude. The upside is potentially exceptional.
Chol played 13 odd games last year which is enough to judge him. If selectors want to play the 3rd tall again then he's competing with CJ. Who was quite good in one of the practice games but quiet in the Coll game. Had Roughhead as an opponent so it was high standard match practice.
Chol also did some good things vs the pies both in the ruck and in the air. I feel that CJ is more the natural AFL footballer than Chol, who will be good depth.
 
Piece of analysis by David King that just came up



Good bit is it shows how organised and brilliantly structured our defence is.

Poor bit is that it leaves the question of why are our back 3 able to set up the way he describes. in the vision shown you can see that the oppo moves the ball forward from a pressure situation where they have to kick it forward beyond our set up 10 - 25 meters from the contest. That is, the key thing allowing up to set up the way we do is that the opposition player is under pressure and has to kick the ball long(ish). That means our back men are set up to take the intercept. So we set up in a way that is focused on intercept marking rather than stopping their man.

When we had the ball and moved it forward we had open space and so could hit the gaps in their defensive set up.

Having more defenders is actually worse if the opposition (us in this case) can get a player free and so can kick the ball to where you aren't.

Our defensive system works because we force the opposition to kick fairly indiscriminately to our marking backs, who maintain their shape so that they are always in the position to mark or spoil.

Our attacking system works because we get someone free through either 1) forward movement from contest (forward handball, kicks/taps of the ground etc) until we get someone free who can settle and kick it, or 2) from intercepts marks we free up Short/Bachar/short to run and carry, then hit targets. We try really hard to avoid the pump kicks forward to clear congestion. We take on the congestion.

So good on King for that piece of analysis. but it only works if the ball comes in the way we make it come in. Why teams have to play us the way they do is the secret sauce, and I haven't seen that analysed well - except 'the tigers apply lots of pressure'. Lots of teams apply pressure, why do we make the game work differently?

Anyway, lovely shots that show how we moves like a single organism. So worth a look just for that.
 
Just updating myself on how things have changed in season 2021.

The big change I see, apart from injuries ruining our midfield, is the new man on the mark rule. This, along with the protected space rule, means that teams can simply run through the mark and hit up targets.

This is a real problem to our system. Because we occupy the ground 20 - 35/40 meters from the mark teams had to either go sideways/backwards or do risky kicks to contests. Worked a treat for us. We either got intercepts or created the rolling contests we love. This year teams have the option of going short-ish, long as previously, or running through the mark via a handball to someone coming through the protected zone (and therefore unmarked), or the player just running around the mark. This gets them 10 meters further on and so our zone is too close to the mark. Stretches us in a way we can't really deal with easily.

We, of course, can and do, do the same thing back.

But the key thing is that teams, if they have the skill and daring, can actually work through our zone with relatively low risk. So where we used to make it damn hard to get forward movement without risky kicks or running the ball into traffic, teams can now use the protected space and man on the mark not moving to open up angles and long direct ball movement. To succeed is really hard - high skills and being willing to take the harder option. But if it comes off our entire set up is out of whack. And Sydney, Melbourne, Geelong etc have done exactly that.

How do we stop that? Hmm. Logically we have to have player/s deeper for the long kick, and really tighten up fast as the guy runs through the mark. It is very difficult to completely return to our old system cause the new rule mean the oppo can go round us. So we've got to suck up that teams can attack us in a way that hasn't happened previously.

If we can tighten up our zones to counter the changed angles and have the long kick from beyond the mark covered then we actually potentially create more problems. This is because the player running through the mark has only a fraction of second to dispose of the ball, they can't wait. So we have the opportunity to force dangerous kicks. This requires some tinkering with our positioning and how our players look at making the zone work. Fairly simple conceptually, but really hard to do on the field. We'll have to have a flexible mindset to cover how teams move the ball against us. But at least we are doing it in a pre-set way and we've seen teams move the ball in the new rules. So from here we pretty much know what is going to happen. Stopping teams doing it is different.

I haven't really seen us using the new rule to advantage as much as other teams have to us. I sort of get why. We prefer to move the ball wide and then run at the oppo. This allows us to use forward handball and rapid transition. I'd like to see us run through the protected zone more and really attack the oppo. They will have the same problems as us, and we can create a pressure situation if we don't mark it. This run and kick approach is something Dimma hasn't done this much for years. So I might be disappointed.

*******

The other major issue is what I described as creating shadow zones where the ball is at the edge of a contest. Whoever has it doesn't have time and space to move it easily. That's where we are clearly the best in the AFL. The big problem, as I said in the OP, is that we get smashed if the oppo wins contested ball and can get it cleanly out. Without Meatball, and now Cotch etc, we simply can't match it up inside. It's not that we need to win contested ball, it's that we can't let the opposition get clean ball from the inside. I think/hope that our problems here are just personnel. RCD looks good, but is still not a genuine AFL inside mid. If we continue to have problems here we're done this year. But if we can get our guys back and can control that inside area the way we want we're back in town!

We really need ongoing depth in this space. I can really see why they went after Crouch last year. He'd be worth gold right now, just cause he'd fill a hole. We've got the kids, but hopefully they'll be pushed out by Cotch and Prestia, and Shai doing their thing.

Summary, the man on the mark rule change has really impacted us. We will have to change what we do fairly substantially. But it also opens opportunities to us. I'm not sure how it'll go. Right now we're in trouble. But I reckon/hope that we might just start to step it up as the season goes on and this rule will actually not hurt us much.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Back