Why pick 20 20 players for Test Cricket?

BarneyBent

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#26
is that worse or better than only just appearing on the scene?
Probably about the same.

One guy is relatively young, has talent to burn, a good technique, finally got his chance in FC cricket and has taken it with both hands, has international experience (and success), but his sample size is small.

The other guy is less talented, been around for ages, has experience on his side but has had some very ordinary patches, has never truly dominated, and is unlikely to stay in the side all that long. He's vanilla, but you know what you're getting, and he'll be a decent stop-gap measure before somebody better comes along.

Personally, I'd give the younger, more talented guy a go at this point. See what he's made of. If we were genuine contenders but were missing a solid opener for an upcoming year of tough cricket, then I'd go with Cowan. But we're rebuilding, and Warner has put in better performances (but over a much shorter period of time). If we take a risk and it fails, well, our team is pretty damn rubbish right now anyway. If it succeeds, we've taken our first step towards rebuilding.

Basically, playing Ed Cowan doesn't move us forward as a team, and right now, we need to be moving forward. That doesn't mean gifting games to players who don't deserve it (e.g. Starc shouldn't have been selected as there were clearly better options), but when all else is equal, you go for the higher risk, higher reward option.
 

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legend166

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#27
This idea that Cowan is a Bradman waiting in the wings is a stupid idea based on the same old "wah wah NSW" mindset (even though Cowan is from NSW).

Warner was a reasonable selection. He only got a game because of injuries anyway. He's failed twice.

Cowan timed his run about two weeks too late. His first 6 innings in the Shield this year produced 85 runs at an average of 14. So the purple patch hasn't even been for the entire season.

Either way, unless Watson and/or Marsh come back for Boxing Day, Cowan will get a game. But the revisionist history that goes on is just stupid.
 

Bradesmaen

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#28
You mean Phil 'averaged 60 in Shield cricket before being picked' Hughes?

You mean David 'best performing Shield opener this season' Warner?

Idiot.
Warner wasn't the best performing shield opener this season.. He played one shield game on a road at Bankstown (It was acknowledged as a road by another poster who went to watch). That was it. Hell, Steve Smith and Tom Cooper scored a century and double in the same match, it was definitely a road!

He's only played 2 FC games this summer because he spent time with the T20 and ODI teams before coming back for the one game, then flying over as an injury replacement for Marsh.
 

BarneyBent

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#29
Warner wasn't the best performing shield opener this season.. He played one shield game on a road at Bankstown (It was acknowledged as a road by another poster who went to watch). That was it. Hell, Steve Smith and Tom Cooper scored a century and double in the same match, it was definitely a road!

He's only played 2 FC games this summer because he spent time with the T20 and ODI teams before coming back for the one game, then flying over as an injury replacement for Marsh.
This is true, but he dominated for Australia A earlier in the year as well, and has a brilliant overall FC record. On the basis of his last 10 FC matches, he was the best FC opener in Australia.
 
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#30
Warner wasn't the best performing shield opener this season.. He played one shield game on a road at Bankstown (It was acknowledged as a road by another poster who went to watch). That was it. Hell, Steve Smith and Tom Cooper scored a century and double in the same match, it was definitely a road!

He's only played 2 FC games this summer because he spent time with the T20 and ODI teams before coming back for the one game, then flying over as an injury replacement for Marsh.
Careful now. This kind of post will only inflame the masses of delusional Warner lovers on this board.
 

Bradesmaen

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#32
This is true, but he dominated for Australia A earlier in the year as well, and has a brilliant overall FC record. On the basis of his last 10 FC matches, he was the best FC opener in Australia.
Yeah... but so did Ferguson and he's not seen in a favourable light compared to 2 years ago.
 

Bradesmaen

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#36
Not nearly to the extent that Warner did, and he hasn't been able to buy a run in domestic FC cricket this season.
This season isn't the part we are talking about. Plus, cause Warner was dominating it was hard for Ferguson to do much. He still made over 50 in almost every innings.
 

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BarneyBent

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#37
This season isn't the part we are talking about. Plus, cause Warner was dominating it was hard for Ferguson to do much. He still made over 50 in almost every innings.
What? How does Warner doing well stop Ferguson from doing well? It's not like he was ever stranded with not out starts.

And do you think this season isn't relevant? Ferguson has regularly failed in his most recent FC matches. Warner hasn't.

Not to mention the fact that Ferguson has a poor overall FC record.
 

Bradesmaen

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#38
Warner has played two first class matches this summer, Ferguson has played more. Hard to compare.

Same with overall FC record. Ferguson started playing for SA at 19, Warner didn't.

Also, of course Warner and partners doing well at the top of the order matters. Ferguson is then usually charged with getting quick runs.
 

King Elvis

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#39
Fergie Ferg let us down, he should've been performing to a level to demand a spot; but I worry he's another who just isn't quite good enough.
 

BarneyBent

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#40
Warner has played two first class matches this summer, Ferguson has played more. Hard to compare.
You're the only one who brought up the comparison. The only way to compare them is on the basis of their last few matches, regardless of whether they were in the season or not, and on that basis, Warner >>> Ferguson.

Same with overall FC record. Ferguson started playing for SA at 19, Warner didn't.
Not sure how that's relevant. Warner's performances now are better than Ferguson's have ever been.

Also, of course Warner and partners doing well at the top of the order matters. Ferguson is then usually charged with getting quick runs.
In his two lesser innings (in other words, the ones he failed in compared to Warner), he had an SR of 57, the lowest of any specialist batsman bar Khawaja, who had a horror series. Even in his 156* he scored at only 72, which was below the team's overall SR (which was around 79). So he wasn't exactly going the slog.

Try again.
 

Bradesmaen

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#41
You're the only one who brought up the comparison.
Read again, no I did not.



Not sure how that's relevant. Warner's performances now are better than Ferguson's have ever been.
Of Course it is relevant... not everyone is dominating cricket at 19. Some players take a while to become really good players.



In his two lesser innings (in other words, the ones he failed in compared to Warner), he had an SR of 57, the lowest of any specialist batsman bar Khawaja, who had a horror series. Even in his 156* he scored at only 72, which was below the team's overall SR (which was around 79).

Try again.
Cool, I can pull out random statistics that have no relevance what so ever as well!
 

BarneyBent

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#42
Read again, no I did not.
Care to point out where Ferguson's name was mentioned before you brought it up?

Of Course it is relevant... not everyone is dominating cricket at 19. Some players take a while to become really good players.
Of course not, as I said, Warner is performing better now than Ferguson ever has. Ferguson has never dominated cricket, so suggesting that starting at 19 has deceptively lowered his average is simply wrong.

Cool, I can pull out random statistics that have no relevance what so ever as well!
You said that Ferguson had to score runs quickly, hence him not scoring as many. I just showed that he was one of the slowest scorers on the tour. How on earth is that irrelevant? It totally disproves your argument.
 

Bradesmaen

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#43
Care to point out where Ferguson's name was mentioned before you brought it up?
I brought up Ferguson, on the basis of the Aus A tour, not his FC record, nor his FC record this season. Merely saying that he had a good tour also but that mattered little to people


Of course not, as I said, Warner is performing better now than Ferguson ever has. Ferguson has never dominated cricket, so suggesting that starting at 19 has deceptively lowered his average is simply wrong.
Disagree. If Ferguson got to play against Zimbabwe then he'd be making scores too.. The fact that of his three FC centuries, Warner has made them against the weakest attack in World Cricket and the weakest attack in State Cricket doesn't make him an elite player yet. As it has been proven recently, he's struggled against quality international bowling.



You said that Ferguson had to score runs quickly, hence him not scoring as many. I just showed that he was one of the slowest scorers on the tour. How on earth is that irrelevant? It totally disproves your argument.
Small sample size.. One innings where he scored at 50 dragged it down. Learn the principles of statistics.
 

BarneyBent

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#44
I brought up Ferguson, on the basis of the Aus A tour, not his FC record, nor his FC record this season. Merely saying that he had a good tour also but that mattered little to people
Yeah, it means little because his more recent form has been rubbish.


Disagree. If Ferguson got to play against Zimbabwe then he'd be making scores too.. The fact that of his three FC centuries, Warner has made them against the weakest attack in World Cricket and the weakest attack in State Cricket doesn't make him an elite player yet. As it has been proven recently, he's struggled against quality international bowling.
Ferguson did get to play against Zimbabwe. He did well, but not as well as Warner.

You may say Warner has made runs against weak attacks, but against those same attacks, Ferguson has performed worse than Warner.

Warner may be world class, he may not be, but he's done a shitload more than Ferguson.

Small sample size.. One innings where he scored at 50 dragged it down. Learn the principles of statistics.
One innings at 65, the other at 53. That does not paint the picture of a player who was forced to sacrifice his wicket chasing runs, especially when you consider that Warner, who you seem to be implying had the luxury of sitting back and being cautious, scored at a faster rate in every single innings they played.

Anyway, it's 4:30 in the morning where I am, and it's tea, so I'm off to bed.
 

davis_756

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#48
Probably about the same.

One guy is relatively young, has talent to burn, a good technique, finally got his chance in FC cricket and has taken it with both hands, has international experience (and success), but his sample size is small.

The other guy is less talented, been around for ages, has experience on his side but has had some very ordinary patches, has never truly dominated, and is unlikely to stay in the side all that long. He's vanilla, but you know what you're getting, and he'll be a decent stop-gap measure before somebody better comes along.

Personally, I'd give the younger, more talented guy a go at this point. See what he's made of. If we were genuine contenders but were missing a solid opener for an upcoming year of tough cricket, then I'd go with Cowan. But we're rebuilding, and Warner has put in better performances (but over a much shorter period of time). If we take a risk and it fails, well, our team is pretty damn rubbish right now anyway. If it succeeds, we've taken our first step towards rebuilding.

Basically, playing Ed Cowan doesn't move us forward as a team, and right now, we need to be moving forward. That doesn't mean gifting games to players who don't deserve it (e.g. Starc shouldn't have been selected as there were clearly better options), but when all else is equal, you go for the higher risk, higher reward option.
Warner talented sure, he is no cricketer though.

He has no technique or understanding of the game and will be an easy wicket on just about any pitch, even on flat pitches they only need to tempt him to go big and he will get out.
 

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#49
Clearly you can't understand plain English, so I'll leave it there at your incompetence.
What are you on about? I'm not saying either batsman deserves to be in the side more than the other but he obviously disproved what you said. Your rebuttal doesn't offer anything in the form of an argument towards Ferg being picked over Warner. Get off it.
 
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