Strategy Why take Will Ashcroft with the first pick?

[irel]

What a lot of crap - Petracca goes ok being taken after Melbourne bid on Heeney at pick 2

You should make the other club pay fair price, FFS, it's already discounted by 20%! Let them get their player even cheaper means they have more picks to use elsewhere or next draft. Could just be the player that edges them past you in a big final or even a GF! You missed the flag because you let Brisbane off really cheap.

It's a cut throat industry, don't give a competitor an easy break.

I can't remember you being this obsessed last year when it become evident Daicos was not going to be bid at 1.

 

[La Dispute]

Good on Cadman accepting protection from...what?. I prefer Ashcroft's attitude. "I want to be number one, bring on the pressure" and I like Brisbane's attitude "Yeah we'll take him at number one, we believe Ashcroft can handle it."

Look at the scrutiny Jack Watts had to endure, or Patton, or Boyd, or McCartin.

It’s not a level playing field when you factor in the years of development of a midfielder v a key position forward.

Ashcroft is going to come in and dominate in the same way Walsh did or Rowell did because midfielders are more readymade and there are far more supplementary roles for them to play. Ashcroft is also heading to a Top 4 club, Cadman will be joining what is likely to be a Bottom 4 side - which is going to be as big a deterrent as it’s even harder to perform as a young forward in a side who are going to be beaten most weeks.

 

[JasRulz63]

What a lot of crap - Petracca goes ok being taken after Melbourne bid on Heeney at pick 2

You should make the other club pay fair price, FFS, it's already discounted by 20%! Let them get their player even cheaper means they have more picks to use elsewhere or next draft. Could just be the player that edges them past you in a big final or even a GF! You missed the flag because you let Brisbane off really cheap.

It's a cut throat industry, don't give a competitor an easy break.

While I agree with this in principle, if you're able to leverage your position to get a favourable pick trade, or so that Northern clubs don't usually bid on each other's academy players (though this has happened before), surely that also makes sense from GWS position? It's more of a direct benefit to them.

 

[blueiris]

Question what actually becomes of deficit next year with North getting the extra 2nd and 3rd picks

 

[TradeDraft]

It makes more sense for two sides to have an agreement under the table not to bid on the other sides father sons or academy players.

Happens quite often as NGA/Father Sons seem to get Bids Later then what they are Rated

 

[Thetrader15]

What's your point?

He didn't wanna be there anyway.

Number 1 gets a financial bonus. Why give it to another kid?

10k, so 5k after tax?

That's a night out for a footballer! It's nothing when you earn 400k on your next contract.

 

[PAFC_FOREVER]

10k, so 5k after tax?

That's a night out for a footballer! It's nothing when you earn 400k on your next contract.

You make it sound like a 18yo kid wouldn't like the prestige and extra money.

Spoken like someone who definitely isn't in that position.

 

[d-mac3276]

Excuse my ignorance but why do GWS get a compensation pick in the 30’s for putting in a bid?

 

[Foxx]

Happens quite often as NGA/Father Sons seem to get Bids Later then what they are Rated

These things have happened a lot in the past, and would still be going on today.

 

[nickcat0]

Excuse my ignorance but why do GWS get a compensation pick in the 30’s for putting in a bid?

They don't, I misunderstood how the F/S rule works.

Brisbane just lose the pick (points), I thought they transferred to the other club, as in the NFL/NHL/MLB/NBA style draft

 

[Lemma]

Happens quite often as NGA/Father Sons seem to get Bids Later then what they are Rated

I think that's also because- given they aren't in the open draft- other clubs do less background on them, and so don't know where to rate them

 

[HairyO]

What's your point?

He didn't wanna be there anyway.

Number 1 gets a financial bonus. Why give it to another kid?

$10k out of the millions they will likely make. Im sure its a huge consideration.

 

[Thetrader15]

You make it sound like a 18yo kid wouldn't like the prestige and extra money.

Spoken like someone who definitely isn't in that position.

Correct, I'm not 18

 

[PAFC_FOREVER]

$10k out of the millions they will likely make. Im sure its a huge consideration.

The prestige of being 1.

The club valuing you as the best.

Some. People. Like. That.

 

[HairyO]

The prestige of being 1.

The club valuing you as the best.

Some. People. Like. That.

And many seem to struggle. If the risk free option is picking Ashcroft you pick Ashcroft.

 

[bungalow_bill]

Thx for that - wasn't sure if the deficit came off the F1st (if that's where the deficit is incurred) regardless of year, e.g., if you trade your '23 1st rounder, it comes off your '24 1st rounder

'24 1st will likely be traded away to pay for Levi Ashcroft

 

[Andyy]

IMO your club is in competition with the other 17 so it's best to do whatever benefits your own club, which includes bidding on a player and forcing another club to spend more draft capital to match a bid, subsequently weakening their staff hand - unless there's an agreement between clubs that you don't bid in exchange for something else.

Being #1 is a lot of pressure so arguably bidding and taking someone else at pick 2 might ease that pressure a bit?

 

[blueiris]

IMO your club is in competition with the other 17 so it's best to do whatever benefits your own club, which includes bidding on a player and forcing another club to spend more draft capital to match a bid, subsequently weakening their staff hand - unless there's an agreement between clubs that you don't bid in exchange for something else.

Being #1 is a lot of pressure so arguably bidding and taking someone else at pick 2 might ease that pressure a bit?

True other than missing out on a nice paycheque you would try to draft the player you thought was best available but GWS may not see it that way and really rate Cadman above Ashcroft

Also pretty sure the next 4 players still get a $5000 dollar payment anyway

 

[Andyy]

True other than missing out on a nice paycheque you would try to draft the player you thought was best available but GWS may not see it that way and really rate Cadman above Ashcroft

Also pretty sure the next 4 players still get a $5000 dollar payment anyway

True but regardless if I was GWS I'd be forcing Brisbane to bid against pick 1. Hurt their draft hand as much as possible. Even if they wanted Cadman at #1 why not bid knowing Brisbane will match and get him at pick #2 anyway.

A $5-10k bonus is nothing in the scheme of a long term AFL career which you'd expect from a top 5 pick. Even if they stink it up they get picked up by other clubs hoping they can develop them better etc.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Only reason I can think of is developing goodwill. This especially makes sense for clubs with academies. Effectively, you take the chance that if you don't bid on the player, the other club repays you by doing the same down the line. For GWS, it also makes sense to show faith in the player from the outset, given their issues with player retention.

In this case, I suspect there's more factors than just those aforementioned at play. It seems GWS traded up so they could land Cadman. On top of this, there was a few pick swaps between GWS and Brisbane, so it wouldn't surprise me if there was a secret handshake in there somewhere.

GWS bid on Darcy last year at 2 because they wanted the best tall in the draft... then didnt take a tall. They do it to make the opposing team pay the maximum.

Adelaide also bid on Ugle Hagan for some ridiculous official reason when it is really just to make clubs pay up

 

[Thetrader15]

GWS bid on Darcy last year at 2 because they wanted the best tall in the draft... then didnt take a tall. They do it to make the opposing team pay the maximum.

Adelaide also bid on Ugle Hagan for some ridiculous official reason when it is really just to make clubs pay up

JUH was the best player in the U18s, that was almost unanimous, and the Crows have always bid on players in the first round based on their talent order (e.g. Harry Himmelberg, Tarryn Thomas).

Secondly, WB didn't have to pay up if they thought they were being taken to the cleaners. If top 4 teams are getting free access to the best players in the U18s for some sentimental reason (i.e. FS), I think it's a bit rich them complaining about how many 2nd and 3rd round picks they have to use.

Lastly, the the reason they said was because they thought WB were into Rowe, so being strategic and bidding at 1 meant it would be harder for WB to get Rowe...2 years on however...

BTW, why is there a discount for FS selections? I can understand the academy investment, but FS? Do clubs really invest in these players or are they just part of the normal junior programs?

 

[DocSholl]

How has that worked out for JHF when North should have bid on Daicos?

By not bidding on either Daicos or Darcy, they were able to turn some third rounders into two picks in the 30s and take Paul Curtis and Miller Bergman.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

JUH was the best player in the U18s, that was almost unanimous, and the Crows have always bid on players in the first round based on their talent order (e.g. Harry Himmelberg, Tarryn Thomas).

Secondly, WB didn't have to pay up if they thought they were being taken to the cleaners. If top 4 teams are getting free access to the best players in the U18s for some sentimental reason (i.e. FS), I think it's a bit rich them complaining about how many 2nd and 3rd round picks they have to use.

Lastly, the the reason they said was because they thought WB were into Rowe, so being strategic and bidding at 1 meant it would be harder for WB to get Rowe...2 years on however...

BTW, why is there a discount for FS selections? I can understand the academy investment, but FS? Do clubs really invest in these players or are they just part of the normal junior programs?

I have no issue with the Crows bidding for JUH at 1... that is exactly what they should have done. The Rowe thing didn't make sense because if JUH was bid on at pick 2 we still wouldn't have had a pick before Adelaide.

The Dogs do put in a lot of development time for FS, pretty much the same as Acadamies

 

[Yo Yo Ma!!!]

They don't, I misunderstood how the F/S rule works.

Brisbane just lose the pick (points), I thought they transferred to the other club, as in the NFL/NHL/MLB/NBA style draft

None of the American sports with their drafts have this type of bidding system, especially "father/son", all exchanges are purely done via trading picks/players as we do. American sport drafts differ only in that they get to trade multiple years of picks

 

[Yo Yo Ma!!!]

If GWS rates Ashcroft as the best in the draft they will bid. Whilst not a glaring need, getting the hands down best midfield prospect this year in the 0.000001% chance Brisbane dont match, its to me dumb if you dont make a club ante up to take the player. Using pick 1 on someone who at best is 5th rated player in the draft (cadman), it is daft to me that you would ignore the best to do so. Brisbane will match, so GWS then get who they want with pick 2 and the spend on that player (cadman) is justifiable. If Cadman is demanding GWS pick him at one, gee-whiz red flags, luckily reports are the kid is super well balanced and pragmatic.