Strategy Why take Will Ashcroft with the first pick?

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JasRulz63 said:
www.theage.com.au

A Giant dilemma: What GWS are weighing up with the No.1 pick

The question of whether to bid on Will Ashcroft may not be dominating the Giants’ planning, but in the years to come it will be their first pick who is remembered more so than the rest of their draft hand.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au

This article suggests GWS will likely take Cadman at pick 1.
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Of course they will, because they did the deal with Brisbane at the start of the trade period. They just aren't allowed to say that bit out loud.

So instead we get all this speculation and other carry on.

Personally I'd absolutely hate to take a key forward number 1 and even more so when there's a sure fire number 1 pick you could bid on, but the Giants know the pressure on Cadman up in Sydney won't be near the same level of the pressure on number 1 picks in footy states.
 

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master bate said:
Of course they will, because they did the deal with Brisbane at the start of the trade period. They just aren't allowed to say that bit out loud.

So instead we get all this speculation and other carry on.

Personally I'd absolutely hate to take a key forward number 1 and even more so when there's a sure fire number 1 pick you could bid on, but the Giants know the pressure on Cadman up in Sydney won't be near the same level of the pressure on number 1 picks in footy states.
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Ah, you do realise GWS did not have #1 at start of trade period. So what deal could Brisbane have made? What if GWS was not able to move to pick 1. What good would that deal be to Brisbane. But you answered your own supposition. "the Giants know the pressure on Cadman up in Sydney won't be near the same level of the pressure on number 1 picks in footy states."
 
irel said:
Ah, you do realise GWS did not have #1 at start of trade period. So what deal could Brisbane have made? What if GWS was not able to move to pick 1. What good would that deal be to Brisbane. But you answered your own supposition. "the Giants know the pressure on Cadman up in Sydney won't be near the same level of the pressure on number 1 picks in footy states."
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Doesn't matter that GWS didn't have pick 1, Brisbane would've included it as a steak knive in every deal they did, especially when giving away a super valuable pick like pick 15. Every club with a top father son would after seeing the Pies do the same with Daicos and North/GWS the year before.

There was easily enough smoke that GWS were trading up pretty high to get Cadman, seems like the worst kept secret. Be that pick 1, 2 or 3 the Lions would've asked for them not to bid if they were contributing draft picks that potentially aided that movement.
 
master bate said:
Doesn't matter that GWS didn't have pick 1, Brisbane would've included it as a steak knive in every deal they did, especially when giving away a super valuable pick like pick 15. Every club with a top father son would after seeing the Pies do the same with Daicos and North/GWS the year before.

There was easily enough smoke that GWS were trading up pretty high to get Cadman, seems like the worst kept secret. Be that pick 1, 2 or 3 the Lions would've asked for them not to bid if they were contributing draft picks that potentially aided that movement.
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Not every club rates Ashcroft at 1# according to Twomey so I’m not sure there’s any controversy GWS obviously rate Cadman higher than Ashcroft
 
blueiris said:
Not every club rates Ashcroft at 1# according to Twomey so I’m not sure there’s any controversy GWS obviously rate Cadman higher than Ashcroft
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Some clubs have shite recruiters then if Ashcroft isn't at the top of their boards.

Probably North who haven't got any recruiters

A bid at one or two completely wipes out Brisbane's picks then they'll still have a Fletcher bid to satisfy with deficit in a pathetic 2023 draft hand. With their 2022 trades and recruits, probably don't need to be involved in the 2023 draft anyway
 
Ashcroft will be nominated at Pick#2 by North then matched by Brisbane. l cant see GWS nominating him as they will pick Cadman. 2 totally different types of player..
 
kool kangas said:
Ashcroft will be nominated at Pick#2 by North then matched by Brisbane. l cant see GWS nominating him as they will pick Cadman. 2 totally different types of player..
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Last year, GWS nominated Darcy and then picked Callaghan who is a totally different type of player. They even stated they bid on Darcy because they wanted a tall, only then to pick a mid.
 
GWS draft tampering shithousery confirmed. So good to see their little pea hearts breaking with the Rowston bid, then steal Konstanty out from under their noses.
 
Hoges64 said:
GWS draft tampering shithousery confirmed. So good to see their little pea hearts breaking with the Rowston bid, then steal Konstanty out from under their noses.
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So many people are unable to separate their own irrational emotional desires from what was in the best interests of GWS.

Everyone knew GWS traded up for Cadman. After making such a bold move, you want them to then pass up the marketing value of pick 1 and the message of saying to Cadman "you're our man" just so they can force another club to cough up another pick in the 40s?

The idea of "keeping clubs honest" by actively bidding on a player other than the one they want is far more tantamount to draft tampering.

TLDR: Cry much?
 
Hollow Knight said:
So many people are unable to separate their own irrational emotional desires from what was in the best interests of GWS.

Everyone knew GWS traded up for Cadman. After making such a bold move, you want them to then pass up the marketing value of pick 1 and the message of saying to Cadman "you're our man" just so they can force another club to cough up another pick in the 40s?

The idea of "keeping clubs honest" by actively bidding on a player other than the one they want is far more tantamount to draft tampering.

TLDR: Cry much?
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It's really not, GWS are in direct competition with Brisbane like they are with every other club. Every side should look to punish opposition sides at the trade table, the draft, in game, another word in every aspect of the sport. Absolute no-brainer to bid on the guy who is far and away the best player in the draft at one and its absolute nonsense that Cadman would be offended by them doing so. Like Melb bid on Callum Mills when they knew Syd would match and they then took Oliver and last i looked he signed on to be a one club player. But we bid on Mills because he was higher on our board, this was one of the earlier signs that Melb had become slightly less incompetent. If Cadman leaves it would be for a dozen other factors than him not being the no1 pick, the guy wasn't even on draft boards to start the year, pretty sure he'd have been stoked for any of the clubs in the top 5 to pick him.

Both GWS and GC are continually guilty of being nice and not cutthroat enough and they wonder why everyone leaves. I mean GC gave away Bowes and pick bloody 7 when Geelong would've taken him off their hands for free without the 1st round pick attached. They didnt even look to offer him up with a 4th rounder, then you go 3rd, after that you take a look in the mirror and realise that hey were giving away a very good but overpaid player here, there's prob half a dozen teams with cap space that will take him off our hands. But no, give him to the best run team in the league along with 7 when 7 would've netted them a very good player. Sheer incompetence. Hell Melb prob would've given GC multiple 13 and a future 1st for 7. I dont think ive even seen Melb do anything dumber than that deal and that says a lot. Really reminds me of the kind of nice guy bs Melb did over and over from when Daniher left to Roos/PJ getting to the club.

Pro sports are cutthroat businesses and if you want to win at the absolute highest level of such an industry you should exude absolute ruthlessness in every aspect of the football club. You can't seriously say Ashcroft didn't deserve to be the no1 pick and it's a farce that he isn't when every club would've taken him at 1 in an open draft. Sydney showed how a real club does things tonight, and i say this as someone who does not like Sydney and who has a soft spot for GC. I actually can't believe the AFL didn't veto the Bowes deal, worst trade in AFL history. Both clubs are basket cases and its a bit bloody sad tbh. 15 years on and both side still don't seem to understand the industry, winning and money keeps players in place for the most part, not kowtowing to their egos and pampering them with a label that they prob dont even care about. Passing on Ashcroft is just absolutely ridiculous when he's so much better than the next guy in the draft. He's basically a Lebron type can't miss prospect who's a generational player, you don't just pass on such players because you have so much PTSD from every player leaving your club that you're already kissing Cadmans ass before he even gets to the club. The giants quickly learnt that just because they want everyone to be nice, when a club has matching rights on a player you should make them pay the max price because otherwise they are getting said player for unders and that's how strong lists are built. It's already a huge advantage that a side that finished in the top 4 got the best player in the draft and another 1st round talent, the least you can do is bleed them a little and make them pay a fair price, because even at pick 1 points, Ashcroft is an absolute steal going to a top 4 side. GWS are just a basket case and now Brissy dont go into a points deficit for next year and who knows if that comes back to bite GWS in 12 months. You always make the opposition pay as much as possible and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. Kudos to Sydney and Brisbane, Syd for being smart and Brisbane for having just a dream off season.

P.s bidding on the best player at pick 1 is draft tampering how exactly? If anything GWS didn't bid on Ashcroft because of some under the table deal with Brisbane and that my friend is actually draft tampering. Ashcroft should have been pick 1 in every dimension yet somehow were in the one where he slid all the way to pick 2. Astounding stuff and i really do wonder if GWS and Brisbane had some kind of agreement or if the Giants really are just super dumb. I hope for their sake its the former because in that scenario there's actually some kind of logic or reason to not bidding on Ashcroft.
 

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10571z said:
So stupid by GWS… saved Brisbane 500 points (pick 36) for nothing…

Moronic. Look at the swans… that’s what real clubs do.
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Were you upset when North and GWS did the same thing with Daicos?

To Collingwood's credit, they made us pay up for Blake Coleman which was a bit annoying at the time.
 
Hollow Knight said:
The idea of "keeping clubs honest" by actively bidding on a player other than the one they want is far more tantamount to draft tampering.

TLDR: Cry much?
Click to expand...
Just like Dodo did late when he actively selected Jack Silvagni so we didn’t get him for free?

You guys got lucky saving 500 draft points because of GWS incompetence and you don’t have to be Einstein to know talks were had behind the scenes regarding the Giants not taking Ashcroft.

It is what it is though and nothing can change it now and take the points and run!
 
Chism said:
You guys got lucky saving 500 draft points because of GWS incompetence and you don’t have to be Einstein to know talks were had behind the scenes regarding the Giants not taking Ashcroft.
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Yeah you definitely don't need to be Einstein, you just need a tin-foil hat.

The optics of GWS trading up aggressively for Cadman only to rob him of $5k, the prestige and marketing value of pick 1 and sending Cadman the message that he was their second option, just to force another club to use an extra third round selection would have been frankly ridiculous and not stacked up on any cost benefit analysis guided by reason rather than emotion.
 
Chism said:
Just like Dodo did late when he actively selected Jack Silvagni so we didn’t get him for free?

You guys got lucky saving 500 draft points because of GWS incompetence and you don’t have to be Einstein to know talks were had behind the scenes regarding the Giants not taking Ashcroft.

It is what it is though and nothing can change it now and take the points and run!
Click to expand...

Dodo bid on Silvagni as a joke with the pick before Calrton were going to pick him anyway.

Both Dodo and Silvagni have talked about this.
 
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