Opinion Why the crazy talk?

[Boris the Contradiction]

I have started very few threads over a long period as a member of this site - an example being when I famously beat Dave the Man in welcoming the Postcard Bandit to the club - but I thought it was necessary to call for calm.

So many are lambasting the club for its performance over the free agency and trade periods, but I do not see how we could have done much better.

I'll go through the list.


DEPARTURES

1. Cloke:

He will be 30 before next season starts, was not part of our best 22 for most of this year and the club desperately wanted to get rid of him to clear salary cap space. Clubs knew this and only one was genuinely interested, so we did about as well as we could in the circumstances.

2. Williams:

I would have liked to have kept him, but he was out of contract and the club wanted to get rid of him. Other clubs knew this and we had no bargaining power.

We could have delisted him or assisted him to get to where he wanted to go. We did the professional thing.

3: Frost:

The player wanted out. He had no currency whatsoever and we arranged a trade which should net us two quality pick upgrades next year given that Brisbane are likely to finish bottom two (probably last). We did well.

4: Brown:

He wanted out and was uncontacted. There was nothing we could have done.

5. Witts:

This is the only one where I think we have done poorly, as young rucks generally retain their value. At the same time, he is a 24 year old former rookie who has never been best twenty two for any sustained period and who we wanted to move on. What bargaining power did we have?


ARRIVALS

1. Hoskin-Elliott:

Hugely talented player who we've wanted for a while. I concede that we paid overs, but not by much considering his potential. He will be a very good player for us for a long time.

2. Dunn:

Given that Brown and Frost decided to jump ship, we needed an experienced key position player who could play a role immediately.

Dunn is very good one on one, will improve our defensive fifty exits immeasurably considering his increased production and quality foot skills relative to Brown, Frost and Marsh and we got him for virtually nothing. One of the biggest problems with our defence is that teams know they can zone off our full backs then press up when we get possession, because they know the player is likely to make a mistake. This won't happen with Dunn and I think we did well to get him at such short notice considering the cards we were dealt.

3. Wells:

Is a gun and will be top five at our club immediately. He fills two needs with his pace and elite skills and will also provide much needed experience and leadership.

North Melbourne were top of the ladder after eleven rounds this year and he was their best player. To get him without having to trade anything out is a real coup.

4. Mayne:

He is slightly underwhelming but again, he fills a need with the forward pressure he gives. We have nobody who can play that role other than Blair whose tackles never stick.

He will improve us and didn't cost us a trade, so I am happy we got him in.

In light of the above, I would like to ask if anyone genuinely thinks we could have done much better in the circumstances? Our draft position was always going to be compromised after our excellent trading last year but we still managed to hold onto our top pick. For now, we also still have Marsh.

Thoughts?

BTC

 

[unplugged]

I have started very few threads over a long period as a member of this site - an example being when I famously beat Dave the Man in welcoming the Postcard Bandit to the club - but I thought it was necessary to call for calm.

So many are lambasting the club for its performance over the free agency and trade periods, but I do not see how we could have done much better.

I'll go through the list.


DEPARTURES

1. Cloke:

He will be 30 before next season starts, was not part of our best 22 for most of this year and the club desperately wanted to get rid of him to clear salary cap space. Clubs knew this and only one was genuinely interested, do we did about as well as we could in the circumstances.

2. Williams:

I would have liked to have kept him, but he was out of contract and the club wanted to get rid of him. Other clubs knew this and we had no bargaining power.

We could have delisted him or assisted him to get to where he wanted to go. We did the professional thing.

3: Frost:

The player wanted out. He had no currency whatsoever and we arranged a trade which should net us two quality pick upgrades next year given that Brisbane are likely to finish bottom two (probably last). We did well.

4: Brown:

He wanted out and was uncontacted. There was nothing we could have done.

5. Witts:

This is the only one where I think we have done poorly, as young rucks generally retain their value. At the same time, he is a 24 year old former rookie who has never been best twenty two for any sustained period and who we wanted to move on. What bargaining power did we have?


ARRIVALS

1. Hoskin-Elliott:

Hugely talented player who we've wanted for a while. I concede that we paid overs, but not by much considering his potential. He will be a very good player for us for a long time.

2. Dunn:

Given that Brown and Frost decided to jump ship, we needed an experienced key position player who could play a role immediately.

Dunn is very good one on one, will improve our defensive fifty exits immeasurably considering his increased production and quality foot skills relative to Brown, Frost and Marsh and we got him for virtually nothing. One of the biggest problems with our defence is that teams know they can zone off our full backs then press up when we get possession, because they know the player is likely to make a mistake. This won't happen with Dunn and I think we did well to get him at such short notice considering the cards we were dealt.

Wells:

Is a gun and will be top five at our club immediately. He fills two needs with his pace and elite skills and will also provide much needed experience and leadership.

North Melbourne were top of the ladder after eleven rounds this year and he was their best poster. To get him without having to trade anything out is a real coup.

Mayne:

He is slightly underwhelming but again, he fills a need with the forward pressure he gives. We have nobody who can play that role other than Blair whose tackles never stick.

He will improve us and didn't cost us a trade, so I am happy we got him in.

In light of the above, I would like to ask if anyone genuinely thinks we could have done much better in the circumstances? Our draft position was always going to be compromised after our excellent trading last year but we still managed to hold onto our top pick. For now, we also still have Marsh.

Thoughts?

BTC

I think the problem that some people have is that because they see Wells and Mayne as free hits, they struggle to include them as part of the trade period, when in actual fact they should be.

When you look at the entire picture, I think we've done OK. Added 3 best 22 players, have lost a few 50/50s.

Could be better draft pick wise, but could be worse.

 

[Hong Kong Pie]

I'm with you, Boris.

 

[Countrypie]

I agree - I was kind of dumbfounded by the melts on here.
I have said before that Collingwood fans tend to overrate their players. Today has really confirmed it. Your summation of the players leaving is spot on. Except for Witts I think we did fairly well there - the guy plays like he's in a china shop and is scared to break something.
We traded our first rounder this year we were always playing with the deck stacked against us.
Contrast us to Geelong, Hawthorn, Port, Adelaide, Sydney and we did better than all of them on a net gain basis

 

[Dubaimagpie]

I totally agree. We have got rid of players who can't kick, have promised the world and failed to deliver and had the egos bruised because they couldn't cop criticism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[frizzle]

I think we got poor value for Witts, Cloke & Marley, but having said that the Hawks did far worse in comparison for Mitchell & Lewis.
We needed points for our father son selections & the only one that got us any was Witts. We waited 2 weeks to trade Cloke & apparently knocked back pick 71 because we needed points. Nek minnit we take pick 76 instead & totally wasted 2 friggin weeks. That isn't good negotiating.

 

[PieBeast]

Wasn't aware Wells posts on here, what's his username?

 

[Pedro]

Good post Boris the Contradiction. Only time will tell whether or not the 'ins' will be any good, but until proven otherwise, I'd rather take the positive view. I doubt any of the 'outs' will make too much of a splash at their prospective destinations. Witts is probably the only one capable of any significant improvement imo. I read somewhere that the combined points for the picks we got amounted to about pick 33. Not great but not a total disaster

 

[Scodog10]

I think it has a fair bit to do with all our ins having kickers to them, our direct competition for a top 8 berth improved significantly ahead of us (St Kilda, Melbourne, Fremantle and Richmond all had fantastic trade periods) and we didn't improve our draft position.

Clubs get two bites at the cherry to make ground on the competition. We walked away from one of them without definitive improvement and at the same time didn't increase our likelihood of having a strong position in the other.

There's a reason all neutral media commentators downplayed our trade period. If we're to improve next year we'll be reliant on injured players returning and better youth development which is frustrating given we were 3 wins and % off the 8 this year. Again the person I feel most for is Buckley because the last fortnight has not helped him one iota, IMO.

 

[carndapies]

2017 must have an awesome draft because it looks like we are tanking already

 

[Obese Arachnid]

I think we got poor value for Witts, Cloke & Marley, but having said that the Hawks did far worse in comparison for Mitchell & Lewis.
We needed points for our father son selections & the only one that got us any was Witts. We waited 2 weeks to trade Cloke & apparently knocked back pick 71 because we needed points. Nek minnit we take pick 76 instead & totally wasted 2 friggin weeks. That isn't good negotiating.

It seems to have been a bear market.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Good workBoris
Wits was light on, but it's done.

Now the draft.
A couple of sons of guns....

 

[Greening Magic]

I think fans want a Treloar every year (well who wouldn't), it just ain't gunna happen.
Didn't mind what we did but then again I don't rate Witts at all compared to others and thought we did well in that trade.
Brown, Frost, Cloke and Marley have all copped pastings on this board.
Unhappy losing Marsh.
Excited by what Wells could add next year.
We've added Wells, Mayne, and hopefully will be adding Elliott, Shazza, & Ramsey to best 22.
Will be a nice if WHE lives up to his promise, Dunn fills a hole.
Liked what I saw in back half of year.
I'm more optimistic about 2017 than most I'd say.
Certainly many opposition fans are thinking we're bottom 6 (at least my mates are).
We can't afford a lot of injuries again.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

The first four you listed all, as you said, wanted out. That is one problem I have with these trades.

The other problem is that we have to clear the decks of so many poorly skilled players. Why have so many ordinary kicks of a football been recruited in the first place? And why do we continue to heap praise on those who recruited them?

Witts was a steal given his height, youth and the development we have put into him. If Grundy goes down, we have no back-up other than Cox.

WHE looks exciting from the highlights package, but obviously has not been able to sustain the quality displayed in these brief passages of play.

Wells will fill a need if he stays injury free. He will be fun to watch after some of the scrubbers we've been forced to endure. In this respect, Marley Williams is no loss.

Mayne can do no worse than many of the others who play peripheral roles in our forward line.

Dunn at 30 fails to truly excite me, but given our KPP losses through players 'wanting out', he serves a purpose.

I will be happy if this marks the beginning of a Hawthorn like recruiting policy -' if you can't kick, we don't want you'.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

I have started very few threads over a long period as a member of this site - an example being when I famously beat Dave the Man in welcoming the Postcard Bandit to the club - but I thought it was necessary to call for calm.

So many are lambasting the club for its performance over the free agency and trade periods, but I do not see how we could have done much better.

I'll go through the list.


DEPARTURES

1. Cloke:

He will be 30 before next season starts, was not part of our best 22 for most of this year and the club desperately wanted to get rid of him to clear salary cap space. Clubs knew this and only one was genuinely interested, so we did about as well as we could in the circumstances.

2. Williams:

I would have liked to have kept him, but he was out of contract and the club wanted to get rid of him. Other clubs knew this and we had no bargaining power.

We could have delisted him or assisted him to get to where he wanted to go. We did the professional thing.

3: Frost:

The player wanted out. He had no currency whatsoever and we arranged a trade which should net us two quality pick upgrades next year given that Brisbane are likely to finish bottom two (probably last). We did well.

4: Brown:

He wanted out and was uncontacted. There was nothing we could have done.

5. Witts:

This is the only one where I think we have done poorly, as young rucks generally retain their value. At the same time, he is a 24 year old former rookie who has never been best twenty two for any sustained period and who we wanted to move on. What bargaining power did we have?


ARRIVALS

1. Hoskin-Elliott:

Hugely talented player who we've wanted for a while. I concede that we paid overs, but not by much considering his potential. He will be a very good player for us for a long time.

2. Dunn:

Given that Brown and Frost decided to jump ship, we needed an experienced key position player who could play a role immediately.

Dunn is very good one on one, will improve our defensive fifty exits immeasurably considering his increased production and quality foot skills relative to Brown, Frost and Marsh and we got him for virtually nothing. One of the biggest problems with our defence is that teams know they can zone off our full backs then press up when we get possession, because they know the player is likely to make a mistake. This won't happen with Dunn and I think we did well to get him at such short notice considering the cards we were dealt.

Wells:

Is a gun and will be top five at our club immediately. He fills two needs with his pace and elite skills and will also provide much needed experience and leadership.

North Melbourne were top of the ladder after eleven rounds this year and he was their best poster. To get him without having to trade anything out is a real coup.

Mayne:

He is slightly underwhelming but again, he fills a need with the forward pressure he gives. We have nobody who can play that role other than Blair whose tackles never stick.

He will improve us and didn't cost us a trade, so I am happy we got him in.

In light of the above, I would like to ask if anyone genuinely thinks we could have done much better in the circumstances? Our draft position was always going to be compromised after our excellent trading last year but we still managed to hold onto our top pick. For now, we also still have Marsh.

Thoughts?

BTC

..because some prefer to be negative nancies. Helps them get through the day. Simple really.

 

[Maggie5]

I just hope that we give time to the f/s to develop and don't throw them in the deep end to soon.

 

[mike123]

Because we overpaid for our ins and got unders for outs. Its simple really.

 

[Maggie5]

..because some prefer to be negative nancies. Helps them get through the day. Simple really.

Not really, Hine stated at the members forum that we only had one player over 30 with a view to bringing the team through together. Also went through under 22 and 25.
So what do we do? bring in three players over 27, two with juicy contracts and one that couldn't break into his own senior team.

Case of mixed messaging and confusion over direction is reasonable.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Not really, Hine stated at the members forum that we only had one player over 30 with a view to bringing the team through together. Also went through under 22 and 25.
So what do we do? bring in three players over 27, two with juicy contracts and one that couldn't break into his own senior team.

Case of mixed messaging and confusion over direction is reasonable.

Recruiting a 30 yr old unable to break into his own senior team, given the identity of that team, is not a vote of confidence in that player.

Alternatively, if I have mistaken the player or team and fingered the wrong guy, I apologise and strategically withdraw from all further discussion.

 

[eddiebankbalance]

Not really, Hine stated at the members forum that we only had one player over 30 with a view to bringing the team through together. Also went through under 22 and 25.
So what do we do? bring in three players over 27, two with juicy contracts and one that couldn't break into his own senior team.

Case of mixed messaging and confusion over direction is reasonable.

We did what we were able to do. That was obvious.

Last year we went to town on Treloar (thank god). Unless we do a Carlolton/Saintsational and tank for a few yrs at the bottom of the ladder (god help this forum) then sometimes, we have to "make do".

 

[Maggie5]

We did what we were able to do. That was obvious.

Last year we went to town on Treloar (thank god). Unless we do a Carlolton/Saintsational and tank for a few yrs at the bottom of the ladder (god help this forum) then sometimes, we have to "make do".

I really am trying to get my head around it but finding it hard.
Given how many players were traded by other clubs and many were unexpected names, just questioning how hard those in charge worked to see what was available.
Happy to be proved wrong by the players we have selected.

 

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Because we overpaid for our ins and got unders for outs. Its simple really.

No. That's the black and white glasses...
Ben Kennedy and Seedsman last year are the perfect example of this. When seeing them with a different coloured jumper this year you realise their true trade value.
Now that Frost is a lion, what would you give up for him in a trade back to the pies. A top 40 pick?

 

[noideaatall]

..because some prefer to be negative nancies. Helps them get through the day. Simple really.

So what are you with a post like that? Queen of the negative nancies? How about you contribute to the discussion rather than put people down for having an opinion. Its one of the most repetitive posts on this forum, its hypocritical and frankly boring as bat s**t.

 

[jmac70]

I have started very few threads over a long period as a member of this site - an example being when I famously beat Dave the Man in welcoming the Postcard Bandit to the club - but I thought it was necessary to call for calm.

So many are lambasting the club for its performance over the free agency and trade periods, but I do not see how we could have done much better.

I'll go through the list.


DEPARTURES

1. Cloke:

He will be 30 before next season starts, was not part of our best 22 for most of this year and the club desperately wanted to get rid of him to clear salary cap space. Clubs knew this and only one was genuinely interested, so we did about as well as we could in the circumstances.

2. Williams:

I would have liked to have kept him, but he was out of contract and the club wanted to get rid of him. Other clubs knew this and we had no bargaining power.

We could have delisted him or assisted him to get to where he wanted to go. We did the professional thing.

3: Frost:

The player wanted out. He had no currency whatsoever and we arranged a trade which should net us two quality pick upgrades next year given that Brisbane are likely to finish bottom two (probably last). We did well.

4: Brown:

He wanted out and was uncontacted. There was nothing we could have done.

5. Witts:

This is the only one where I think we have done poorly, as young rucks generally retain their value. At the same time, he is a 24 year old former rookie who has never been best twenty two for any sustained period and who we wanted to move on. What bargaining power did we have?


ARRIVALS

1. Hoskin-Elliott:

Hugely talented player who we've wanted for a while. I concede that we paid overs, but not by much considering his potential. He will be a very good player for us for a long time.

2. Dunn:

Given that Brown and Frost decided to jump ship, we needed an experienced key position player who could play a role immediately.

Dunn is very good one on one, will improve our defensive fifty exits immeasurably considering his increased production and quality foot skills relative to Brown, Frost and Marsh and we got him for virtually nothing. One of the biggest problems with our defence is that teams know they can zone off our full backs then press up when we get possession, because they know the player is likely to make a mistake. This won't happen with Dunn and I think we did well to get him at such short notice considering the cards we were dealt.

Wells:

Is a gun and will be top five at our club immediately. He fills two needs with his pace and elite skills and will also provide much needed experience and leadership.

North Melbourne were top of the ladder after eleven rounds this year and he was their best poster. To get him without having to trade anything out is a real coup.

Mayne:

He is slightly underwhelming but again, he fills a need with the forward pressure he gives. We have nobody who can play that role other than Blair whose tackles never stick.

He will improve us and didn't cost us a trade, so I am happy we got him in.

In light of the above, I would like to ask if anyone genuinely thinks we could have done much better in the circumstances? Our draft position was always going to be compromised after our excellent trading last year but we still managed to hold onto our top pick. For now, we also still have Marsh.

Thoughts?

BTC

We have no backline and our forwards don't kick goals. We will be bottom 4 next year. That's why people are a tad annoyed.

 

[noideaatall]

I don't know about a meltdown but its hard to come away from the last two weeks believing the pies are on the right track. Some of the ins seem about bandaids for gaps, raising the question why have the gaps developed? Why do we need age/experience when we have been retiring or trading that out for years. Why did we lose 3 defenders at once, is this really good list management? Why did we give Witts away, we will need some sort of back up, surely it would have been worth keeping him for another year at least.