Expansion Why the National comp can never be national

[MKMatty]

The WAFL and SANDAL identified the risk of setting up a national league with the VFL too early, worried the VFL would pull rank and stack the new league with Victorian club's. The supposed 'plan' was to let the VFL run dry, allow the SANFL and WAFL to have leverage and bargain for an equitable league with 'fair' representation.

The issue was that the WAFL was losing money as fast if not more so than the VFL and couldn't sustain itself through the rough like the SANFL could. The WAFL folded early, and bam, their fears became reality. That's just the way it is.

 

[WHOME]

The AFL don't care about fairness, they care about $$$, they care about TV ratings and they care about breaking attendance records

 

[Wallaby]

Well, maybe when they re-developed the Adelaide Oval a few years ago, they could have extended the capacity to 100,000, so it was a suitable size for a Grand Final.

 

[Always Ballin]

It's called Victorian Privilege. It's the football equivalent of White Privilege.

 

[Cmarsh]

I do wonder would my aussie rules hating NSW mates would still be deriding the game as "VFL" if a conference style national comp was born out of more equal representation from the WAFL, SANFL and VFL in the 80's.

The overrepresentation of VIC based AFL clubs like we see today gives the perception to northern states that the sport is just for Victorians.

Its a hinderence to the sport becoming more accepted in the nortern states than what it is.

 

[Holden Hillbilly]

4 of the top 6 teams outside Victoria - 2018 odds:

Adelaide 4.50
GWS 4.50
Sydney 5.00
Richmond 9.00
Geelong 9.00
Port 12.00

 

[magpienato]

Solution: Relocate North Melbourne to Tasmania, making it 9 interstate teams and 9 Vic teams. The people winning here would be North Melbourne and generally everyone.

 

[John Who]

It’s fair to say there’s been a lot of talk over the years of the inequities of the national comp in favour of the Victorian clubs and there is some fair arguments to back that up. Let’s be frank, whether or not it is a level playing field is irrelevant, the AFL is borne out of a state comp and by and large, some opinions rightly or wrongly still see the comp as “Vic central”. Back in the late 80s, to simplify, the West Australian football commission bailed out the VFL – financially- in exchange for a licence to bring in a club from the West, enter the West Coast Eagles. This is how it looks externally, because of the financial situation it was a fait accompli - feel free to correct me if warranted.

I’m not going to get into arguments here, I’m here to state facts. Let’s look at the competition if it was completely and undeniably fair.

There would be an even amount of teams spread across the nation, all clubs would get equal access to draft and each team has equal travel (even though this is geographically impossible).

I’ll state clearly that this is how I think it would look like – make no mistake this is not what I would prefer it’s just how I think it would appear – if it were to be – completely “fair”

3 teams from each state/territory (taking into account ACT is NSW), the West Australian, South Australian, QLD and NSW teams would remain and the current Vic clubs would go back to the VFL and South Melbourne and Fitzroy would be reinstated into the VFL. The desired result would be that

There would be new teams from Vic, Tas and the NT, all up 21 teams. Much like the big bash, new teams.

Obviously we can see numerous faults in this model. For starters it is highly unlikely that Tasmania and the NT could sustain 3 teams each, hazard a guess the crow eaters and sandgropers would likely go follow the WAFL and SANFL. A certainty would be that in Victoria the VFL would once again be the most attended and watched league in the land. It is more than likely the top end talent would go to the VFL teams in Victoria leaving the 2nd tier players in the National comp.

Like it or lump it, clearly the bulk of football followers are in Victoria. It may leave a sour taste in your mouth but the fact is the game began in Victoria – it is the home of footy, it’s impossible to argue that and the numbers are there to back it up– this cannot be disputed.

Since the inception of the “AFL” the attendance and TV ratings are that of a population 3 or 4 times our current 24 million. For example only 4 years has the attendance been less than 5 million since 1990 regularly 6 million plus and even 4 seasons of 7 million plus. Overall attendance of the AFL is around the 15th mark – take into consideration, our population and the lesser amount of games (by a lot!) compare to other leagues and on average attendance it is 4th, this is very healthy amongst the world leagues.

Point of all that is whether or not the opinion is that it is “unfair” or the term “V/AFL” HQ are doing something right and it is not going to change anytime soon. Admittedly the league did lose a lot of supporters when Brisbane took over Fitzroy and South Melbourne left to go to, and become Sydney and again, hazard a guess HQ won’t be endorsing any mergers or takeovers of current Vic clubs for that reason. Even the lesser Vic clubs have 40K plus members – that’s just too many bums on seats to snub in the name of a “National” and even comp.

On a sidenote the GF is the largest attended single championship event in the world (source Wikipedia) and that is why the GF will stay at the MCG – capacity- and no I won’t be debating on this subject, there are other threads you can post your view on that topic.

Clearly the comp is not as even as would be liked by HQ – regardless of the rhetoric from the mouthpieces that it is “National” and “even”, that’s just insulting our intelligence.

In a nutshell it is what it is and living in WA, being at the coal face I hear it more than those in Vic and the opinions are justified but to have a truly “National” and “equal” comp is simply not achievable. So you have options, if you are not from Victoria you can follow your local league or accept it for what it is and support your team – hard and passionate like! And relish when you win it (deny that WC, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane and Port and inevitably GWS fans).


So do you follow or do you snub? Your choice

I appreciate some of your sentiments, but I think you've oversimplified on how things should be "fair". There are other ways things can be more "fair". Here are some examples (in no particular order of importance):
- promoting umpires from all different states (and to umpire games in which the state they don't belong in)
- injecting more money into teams from Non-Victorian states to help counter the higher probability of a "return to Victoria with a good wage offer".
- AFL commentary to lessen the Victorian bias; I personally think this is much improved, but still happening to some extent.

 

[bh90210fan]

West Coast have won more than half their GFs at the venue.

That’s better than Collingwood over the same period.

We won those finals against Geelong and Sydney, two teams that don't have the MCG as their home ground

Life isn't fair. Get over it.

Things can change mate, gay people may even be able to get married soon!!!

Well, maybe when they re-developed the Adelaide Oval a few years ago, they could have extended the capacity to 100,000, so it was a suitable size for a Grand Final.

By this logic every cricket World Cup should be played in India and the rest of the cricketing nations should just sit down and be thankful that we get to play

 

[Tom_Thumb]

Its pretty simple to fix, West Coast and Fremantle travel the furthermost by a fair margin. In 30 Years there has only been one player to play over 300 games from this state in the AFL, players don't want to come here for a start for that reason. WA boys are now no longer wanting to come back to WA to play out there careers so we are even further behind. This one week away and then one week home has to stop, we have a new ground that we should be looking to fill up and playing 2 games a weekend here should not be dismissed.

Give us bigger list's so we can manage the hours in the air or look at divisions like the Premier League. The AFL can't be taken seriously if there is such inequities like a draw designed to make money over fairness. Geelong ( although they still won ) should never of been made to travel to the MCG, its simple if the AFL wont let them play finals at home then they should financially compensate them back.

The game itself will survive but I can see a time when a "Packer" type super league will come into play because people will get sick and tired of the garbage the AFL hierarchy spews out to the games holders...us the supporters.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

The AFL has to be based somewhere, made all the sense in the world for it to be Melbourne as the AFL was morphed out of the VFL.
It was not set up perfect but nothing is perfect in this world and there is little that can be done to make it perfect.
It is still a little Victorian bias but again they have half the clubs in the league.
Grand Finals are still an issue as game being played st the MCG gives an advantage to a Victorian side in what should be a completely neutral game. How much is the advantage? Big enough that the result could be different if the game was played at the other sides ground. But then we get the advantage back the other way. The MCG is the right place for the GF but it is also why I weight any GF win by an interstate club far above any Victorians win in a GF. There is no solution to it all unfortunately.
With not playing every side twice, massive home ground advantages in finals I can safely say you can make an argument in the modern era of footy that you are not sure if the best side in the comp wins the GF. Something that was once never in doubt.

 

[Paratus78]

It's called Victorian Privilege. It's the football equivalent of White Privilege.

Both feel really good too

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Life isn't fair. Get over it.

Anyone expecting true equality in AFL footy is living in a fool's paradise. It will never happen. When I think of AFL, I'm reminded of a quote from George Orwell, "All animals are created equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

 

[PowerForGood]

Well, maybe when they re-developed the Adelaide Oval a few years ago, they could have extended the capacity to 100,000, so it was a suitable size for a Grand Final.

You must work for the VFL with a statement like that.
Every other sporting comp in the world finds a way to create fair finals venues, but clearly too hard for us "smart" Aussies.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

I appreciate some of your sentiments, but I think you've oversimplified on how things should be "fair". There are other ways things can be more "fair". Here are some examples (in no particular order of importance):
- promoting umpires from all different states (and to umpire games in which the state they don't belong in)
- injecting more money into teams from Non-Victorian states to help counter the higher probability of a "return to Victoria with a good wage offer".
- AFL commentary to lessen the Victorian bias; I personally think this is much improved, but still happening to some extent.

Promoting umpires from different states - already happens.
Injecting more money into non-Victorian teams - already happens ... where have you been?
And how the hell is commentary a factor?

 

[John Who]

Promoting umpires from different states - already happens.
Injecting more money into non-Victorian teams - already happens ... where have you been?
And how the hell is commentary a factor?

I'm not talking as though I'm in upset mode. I'm just making reference to the fact more things need to happen, if fairness is to be agreed upon by all states. It's a growing concept, rather than me expecting things to be all fair right here and now.
Yes things are already happening as from your quote, but more can still be done, can it not?

 

[Lavender Bushranger]

It’s fair to say there’s been a lot of talk over the years of the inequities of the national comp in favour of the Victorian clubs and there is some fair arguments to back that up. Let’s be frank, whether or not it is a level playing field is irrelevant, the AFL is borne out of a state comp and by and large, some opinions rightly or wrongly still see the comp as “Vic central”. Back in the late 80s, to simplify, the West Australian football commission bailed out the VFL – financially- in exchange for a licence to bring in a club from the West, enter the West Coast Eagles. This is how it looks externally, because of the financial situation it was a fait accompli - feel free to correct me if warranted.

I’m not going to get into arguments here, I’m here to state facts. Let’s look at the competition if it was completely and undeniably fair.

There would be an even amount of teams spread across the nation, all clubs would get equal access to draft and each team has equal travel (even though this is geographically impossible).

I’ll state clearly that this is how I think it would look like – make no mistake this is not what I would prefer it’s just how I think it would appear – if it were to be – completely “fair”

3 teams from each state/territory (taking into account ACT is NSW), the West Australian, South Australian, QLD and NSW teams would remain and the current Vic clubs would go back to the VFL and South Melbourne and Fitzroy would be reinstated into the VFL. The desired result would be that

There would be new teams from Vic, Tas and the NT, all up 21 teams. Much like the big bash, new teams.

Obviously we can see numerous faults in this model. For starters it is highly unlikely that Tasmania and the NT could sustain 3 teams each, hazard a guess the crow eaters and sandgropers would likely go follow the WAFL and SANFL. A certainty would be that in Victoria the VFL would once again be the most attended and watched league in the land. It is more than likely the top end talent would go to the VFL teams in Victoria leaving the 2nd tier players in the National comp.

Like it or lump it, clearly the bulk of football followers are in Victoria. It may leave a sour taste in your mouth but the fact is the game began in Victoria – it is the home of footy, it’s impossible to argue that and the numbers are there to back it up– this cannot be disputed.

Since the inception of the “AFL” the attendance and TV ratings are that of a population 3 or 4 times our current 24 million. For example only 4 years has the attendance been less than 5 million since 1990 regularly 6 million plus and even 4 seasons of 7 million plus. Overall attendance of the AFL is around the 15th mark – take into consideration, our population and the lesser amount of games (by a lot!) compare to other leagues and on average attendance it is 4th, this is very healthy amongst the world leagues.

Point of all that is whether or not the opinion is that it is “unfair” or the term “V/AFL” HQ are doing something right and it is not going to change anytime soon. Admittedly the league did lose a lot of supporters when Brisbane took over Fitzroy and South Melbourne left to go to, and become Sydney and again, hazard a guess HQ won’t be endorsing any mergers or takeovers of current Vic clubs for that reason. Even the lesser Vic clubs have 40K plus members – that’s just too many bums on seats to snub in the name of a “National” and even comp.

On a sidenote the GF is the largest attended single championship event in the world (source Wikipedia) and that is why the GF will stay at the MCG – capacity- and no I won’t be debating on this subject, there are other threads you can post your view on that topic.

Clearly the comp is not as even as would be liked by HQ – regardless of the rhetoric from the mouthpieces that it is “National” and “even”, that’s just insulting our intelligence.

In a nutshell it is what it is and living in WA, being at the coal face I hear it more than those in Vic and the opinions are justified but to have a truly “National” and “equal” comp is simply not achievable. So you have options, if you are not from Victoria you can follow your local league or accept it for what it is and support your team – hard and passionate like! And relish when you win it (deny that WC, Adelaide, Sydney, Brisbane and Port and inevitably GWS fans).


So do you follow or do you snub? Your choice

Dude, the term 'National Competition' means 'larger customer base'.


Therefore, it's a huge success.

 

[Always Ballin]

This is why Interstate premierships are worth twice as much as their Victorian counterparts.

 

[Bokonon_]

If the SANFL had stood up to the VFL a bit in the 70s and 80s, the national comp could have stemmed from both leagues with a bit of a conference set up today between the two...

You'd like to think so but I doubt it. The AFL is a bureacracy and there's natural and unshakable law that bureacracies will not co-exist. One will consume the other. It's all about seeking a bigger empire so the functionaries become more important.
As the smaller entity the SA league was doomed. A delaying action and better entry terms certainly, but that's all.

 

[JackFlash]

People just whinge and look for excuses as to why their team underperforms.

Adelaide will be raging favourites no matter who they play and the ground shouldn’t matter.

Four straight years of non Vic teams losing to Victorian ones has enabled a kind of victim mentality, but no one outside Victoria was complaining when non Vic teams dominated between 1992-2006.

The tide will turn. Unlikely to be many Vic teams celebrating in the next few years.

After playing their 14th game at home in the finals to actually make the GF they should be raging favourites, but less than two weeks ago, nobody thought they could beat the Swans? They won't beat the Tigers either....no doubt they will whinge like crazy about not visiting the MCG since the end of July!

 

[FootyJunkie]

Both feel really good too
View attachment 419801

I would cut myself on that Vee

 

[Carringbush2010]

I appreciate some of your sentiments, but I think you've oversimplified on how things should be "fair". There are other ways things can be more "fair". Here are some examples (in no particular order of importance):
- promoting umpires from all different states (and to umpire games in which the state they don't belong in)
- injecting more money into teams from Non-Victorian states to help counter the higher probability of a "return to Victoria with a good wage offer".
- AFL commentary to lessen the Victorian bias; I personally think this is much improved, but still happening to some extent.

Yep agree with all that, but if I were to unsimplify as you suggest then you'd still be reading it now in fact no you wouldn't I'd still be writing......

 

[Carringbush2010]

Op is too long for me to read.

So i call bullshit

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

OK have a nice day

 

[Carringbush2010]

Is this actually true? Or do you mean there are more football followers in Vic than any other individual state?

OK I'll elaborate, there are more supporter of clubs that are in the league in Victoria

 

[beta_condition]

It's called Victorian Privilege. It's the football equivalent of White Privilege.

So something that doesn't exist?