Expansion Why the National comp can never be national

[Carringbush2010]

Solution: Relocate North Melbourne to Tasmania, making it 9 interstate teams and 9 Vic teams. The people winning here would be North Melbourne and generally everyone.

I don't think the 40K north members would agree with you not to mention the many more paying supporters

 

[Carringbush2010]

The game itselIf will survive but I can see a time when a "Packer" type super league will come into play because people will get sick and tired of the garbage the AFL hierarchy spews out to the games holders...us the supporters

That would only happen if the same teams are in it that we have now, would you go follow it if there was no West Coast? I know I wouldn't if Collingwood were not in it. If it were all to fall down as you say because of supporter back lash it'd probably go back to state leagues and you know what that means - the VFL would be once again the biggest league in the land

 

[Carringbush2010]

3 teams in every state is fair is it?

So fair is cutting the attendance figures by 50% at least?

Fair is depriving fans of watching their team play at all?

Our average attendance would be lower then the NRLs, many fans would be disillusioned forever and the game would be worse off.

If the OP wants a game that is regressing go follow rugby league.

Read it again, I clearly stated that this how I think it would look like not what I want it to be

 

[telsor]

It'll happen eventually, I guarantee that. But I wouldn't be surprised if we're waiting another 15 years or more.

I just pray that the AFL doesn't royally **** up and try to relocate a club there. It'd be an unmitigated disaster if they tried to pull that off.

The longer it takes, the less likely it'll be.

The Tasmanian market is shrinking, relative to almost everywhere else, so given that the numbers barely add up now, they'll be even sketchier in 15 years.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The grand final next weekend highlights the inherent unfairness of our national competition. Adelaide finished top of the ladder, smashed their two finals, and now have to travel to play Richmond at their home ground in front of what is likely to be a rabid crowd.

I don't know the answer but I don't get paid hundreds of thousands to run the competition.

This is exactly my point and I don't think it can ever be equitable and sustainable at the same time

 

[telsor]

I just can't see why North Melbourne even exist. They just shouldn't be a thing. There is no reason for them. Should have been merged with Footscray eons ago.

Sentiment.


Which is also the reason Port has a team in the AFL.

 

[Carringbush2010]

The AFL has to be based somewhere, made all the sense in the world for it to be Melbourne as the AFL was morphed out of the VFL.
It was not set up perfect but nothing is perfect in this world and there is little that can be done to make it perfect.
It is still a little Victorian bias but again they have half the clubs in the league.
Grand Finals are still an issue as game being played st the MCG gives an advantage to a Victorian side in what should be a completely neutral game. How much is the advantage? Big enough that the result could be different if the game was played at the other sides ground. But then we get the advantage back the other way. The MCG is the right place for the GF but it is also why I weight any GF win by an interstate club far above any Victorians win in a GF. There is no solution to it all unfortunately.
With not playing every side twice, massive home ground advantages in finals I can safely say you can make an argument in the modern era of footy that you are not sure if the best side in the comp wins the GF. Something that was once never in doubt.

Great post! Sums up exactly what I'm pointing out

 

[PerthBoy86]

West Coast have won more than half their GFs at the venue.

That’s better than Collingwood over the same period.

Granted to the Cats and Swans, neither of whom calls the MCG home.

 

[PerthBoy86]

Not sure what the point of this post is. Obviously the AFL grew out of the VFL, the biggest state league in the biggest football state in Australia (by a margin, with more people than WA, SA and TAS combined back then and now). It's unlike most national sports leagues here or say in the US which began as truly national. In fact it's rather unique that way. We also have quite a unique situation in this country where half the population lives in Aussie rules heartland, and half in rugby league heartland, which obviously limits it outside the rules states.

 

[Norwood1878]

Live in WA, add up the member numbers of each club and then look at the populations of each state. TBH you can not quantify actual supporter but you can for members

Don't forget clubs have members that hail from outside their home states.

 

[kreglze]

As far as moving the GF, these days though it is impossible and would cost billions of dollars. In a perfect world I would of loved the MCG to be used as a Wembley type of ground like in English football. It is only used in Semi Finals/Finals. So it is no teams home ground, and is there for the massive occasions. Every team would still have their own suburban ground to play in and dream to play on the MCG pitch like they do with Wembley. Not every player in the round ball game gets to play on the Wembley deck, unless you are playing Tottenham this year

With the way the league and teams are set up and how so many teams use the MCG as their home ground, it is impossible for this to happen however, and there will always be an air of fairness when it comes to playing MCG tenants on the G in the last Saturday in September.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Don't forget clubs have members that hail from outside their home states.

Yep, am one such member

 

[bh90210fan]

Of course the grand final could be moved. If the AFL approached the states of WA, SA, NSW and QLD and said they wanted to have the grand final played all around Australia, these are our minimum requirements to host it I am positive each state would comply for the opportunity. Then the Afl announce the move and give the states 3 years or so to get ready to host. The grand final is then played in a different state every year on a rotating basis.
Another option is to have a grand final series, say best of three and the team who finishes higher gets the first final and the decider.
At the moment you have to have rocks in your head if you don't think some of the Vic teams have an advantage in the finals playing at home every year

 

[King Brown]

Granted to the Cats and Swans, neither of whom calls the MCG home.

I always thought it was the travel argument that mattered for West Coast fans, not the familiarity of surroundings.

 

[Tom_Thumb]

That would only happen if the same teams are in it that we have now, would you go follow it if there was no West Coast? I know I wouldn't if Collingwood were not in it. If it were all to fall down as you say because of supporter back lash it'd probably go back to state leagues and you know what that means - the VFL would be once again the biggest league in the land

I would follow a WA state side no problems at all, I can still remember before the WCE come into the competition I just followed South Fremantle and watched about 4 VFL teams that had WA boys in them. If the Eagles and Freo merged back into the WAFL and we had a super team in a super league you would unite the whole state which would be good for the game. The talent now is too confined to a couple of teams like GWS and most clubs don't bat deep anymore so I think personally the quality of the game has taken a step backwards.

 

[Engimal v3]

Solution: Relocate North Melbourne to Tasmania, making it 9 interstate teams and 9 Vic teams. The people winning here would be North Melbourne and generally everyone.

Two reasons why this statement is ridiculous:
1. Any team relocated to Tasmania would be a failure. Slapping on a 'Tasmanian' prefix to an existing team might work if Tasmania wasn't an existing AFL market, but we've been following the game down here since it began. No amount of calling them the 'Tasmanian Kangaroos' will ever make an Essendon or Carlton supporter want to watch a North game, or buy a membership. It's such a silly idea.

2. If North couldn't be relocated a decade ago despite the AFL trying its hardest, while North had one foot in the grave financially and were being offered $100million+ to do so, why do you think it will happen now that North are doing pretty well, off-field?

 

[falcons2]

Firstly, fairness is for 6year olds wanting a turn on the swings.
In sport the aim should be for an equal playing field. With this the AFL do a pretty good job.

We have a national competition. To be so does not need every little town, territory or state to have a team.

Perhaps Perth could relocate to Albury/Wodonga then the Eagles and Dockers fans can stop whinging as they wouldn't have to travel too far for away games. (Getting ships that far up the Murray to get to the new Fremantle harbour will be a challenge though)

 

[JackOutback]

Firstly, fairness is for 6year olds wanting a turn on the swings.
In sport the aim should be for an equal playing field. With this the AFL do a pretty good job.

We have a national competition. To be so does not need every little town, territory or state to have a team.

Perhaps Perth could relocate to Albury/Wodonga then the Eagles and Dockers fans can stop whinging as they wouldn't have to travel too far for away games. (Getting ships that far up the Murray to get to the new Fremantle harbour will be a challenge though)

I don't think you understand what equal playing field means. When two teams travel substantially more than any other, 10 teams barely travel at all and the most important game is played at the home ground of several teams, things aren't remotely equal.

I understand how we got here and don't know a way back, but it's hardly equal.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

The AFL will never be a national competition without a Tasmanian side in it.

It depends on what you mean by national, but if that is your criteria there will never (well, not this century without a major shift in economies) be a national competition.

 

[Garry Barry]

Saturday's prelim would have done nothing to promote AFL in Sydney. Shown only on digital channel, all about Richmond, commentators barracking for Richmond.

All it reinforces to Sydney people is that it's a Victorian comp run for Victorians.

 

[PerthBoy86]

As far as moving the GF, these days though it is impossible and would cost billions of dollars. In a perfect world I would of loved the MCG to be used as a Wembley type of ground like in English football. It is only used in Semi Finals/Finals. So it is no teams home ground, and is there for the massive occasions. Every team would still have their own suburban ground to play in and dream to play on the MCG pitch like they do with Wembley. Not every player in the round ball game gets to play on the Wembley deck, unless you are playing Tottenham this year

With the way the league and teams are set up and how so many teams use the MCG as their home ground, it is impossible for this to happen however, and there will always be an air of fairness when it comes to playing MCG tenants on the G in the last Saturday in September.

Ground size standardisation would remove a lot of that advantage, but unfortunately too late for that. Crowdwise there usually isn't much advantage on GF day.

 

[SBD Gonzalez]

Realistically it will never be truly national nor truly even and fair, but there's no reason not to keep striving for both of those goals.

 

[FootyJunkie]

VFL
(10 Vic sides
+
3 interstate from WA, NSW, QLD)
Carl, Coll, Ess, Gee, Haw, Mel, NthMel, Rich, Stk, WB
+
Frem, GC, Syd

SANFL
(9 SA sides
+
4 interstate from WA, TAS, NSW, QLD)
CD, Glen, NthAdel, Norw, PortAdel, SthAdel, Sturt, WstAdel, WWT Warriors
+
Bris, GWS, Tasmania Devils, WC

22 game HA with each team getting 4 games against sides in the other league

Final 5 in each league with GFs at the MCG and AO respectively, winners meet in the AFL GF at the MCG

 

[MarkT2]

As soon as you start with an even spread of teams you are trying to base a competition fantasy.
Population and financial capacity isn't evenly distributed.
Do we really want 3 teams from each state and territory?
How many Tassie teams let alone ACT teams and NT teams does that mean we need?
Or is National only for States?
If Tassie had the same amount of teams as Victoria you'd have 3 Vic clubs making $50M a year. As it is GWS are subsidised to the tune of $10m+ per year.

 

[Topkent]

Its pretty simple to fix, West Coast and Fremantle travel the furthermost by a fair margin. In 30 Years there has only been one player to play over 300 games from this state in the AFL, players don't want to come here for a start for that reason. WA boys are now no longer wanting to come back to WA to play out there careers so we are even further behind. This one week away and then one week home has to stop, we have a new ground that we should be looking to fill up and playing 2 games a weekend here should not be dismissed.

Give us bigger list's so we can manage the hours in the air or look at divisions like the Premier League. The AFL can't be taken seriously if there is such inequities like a draw designed to make money over fairness. Geelong ( although they still won ) should never of been made to travel to the MCG, its simple if the AFL wont let them play finals at home then they should financially compensate them back.

The game itself will survive but I can see a time when a "Packer" type super league will come into play because people will get sick and tired of the garbage the AFL hierarchy spews out to the games holders...us the supporters.

Melbourne has only ever had 1 300 game player in its 150 year existence so your theory is incorrect.