Expansion Why the National comp can never be national

[JackOutback]

I'm not arguing they should or would I'm arguing they are already. Thought that was pretty evident, given the bulk of the teams are centralised in one state.



I'd agree IF and WHEN the population outside of vic outstrips vic, currently the vic population is larger than all other footy states and territories combined and likely always has been and by more than a million people.

And that's why we don't have an equitable national comp - it's catered to the bulk of the market.

This has nothing to do with short term dollars, even more pronounced chasing $$ in rl states in seeming futility - that's long term stuff right there.

If we agree there’s more money to be made in a truly national competition, then forgoing it in favour of where the dollars are today is precisely short term thinking. I understand why it is the way it is too. It’s still bad business in the long term.

Moves like taking the grand final on the road would absolutely build interest, fans and dollars. Forgoing that for some shekels now is silly.

 

[Carringbush2010]

If we agree there’s more money to be made in a truly national competition, then forgoing it in favour of where the dollars are today is precisely short term thinking. I understand why it is the way it is too. It’s still bad business in the long term.

Moves like taking the grand final on the road would absolutely build interest, fans and dollars. Forgoing that for some shekels now is silly.

I get what you're saying Jack and like I said I'd agree IF there was the population outside of Vic to make that viable. If it was viable it would already be happening wouldn't it.

Yes there is more money in a true national comp IF the market buys in - seem HQ think the bulk of it (vic) won't.

Of course moving the GF would create interest, problem is that there's way less people to create an interest for.

Fact of the matter is unless NSW and QLD all of a sudden take an interest in footy over rl and / or the other footy states apart from Vic breed like rabbits and out populate Vic (which likely has never happened and won't in the foreseeable future) then Vic will be the centre of the competition.

It's only bad business in the long term if the market shifts from where it is currently, which it seems HQ have made up their mind that it won't shift.

 

[LoungeLizard]

I get what you're saying Jack and like I said I'd agree IF there was the population outside of Vic to make that viable. If it was viable it would already be happening wouldn't it.

Yes there is more money in a true national comp IF the market buys in - seem HQ think the bulk of it (vic) won't.

Of course moving the GF would create interest, problem is that there's way less people to create an interest for.

Fact of the matter is unless NSW and QLD all of a sudden take an interest in footy over rl and / or the other footy states apart from Vic breed like rabbits and out populate Vic (which likely has never happened and won't in the foreseeable future) then Vic will be the centre of the competition.

It's only bad business in the long term if the market shifts from where it is currently, which it seems HQ have made up their mind that it won't shift.

It's funny how some think that Victorians will just change clubs and follow the nation comp, it won't happen, a few maybe, but most will just give up footy.

And like you are trying to get through, this is where the majority of support is.

 

[Marcel Proust]

People just whinge and look for excuses as to why their team underperforms.

Adelaide will be raging favourites no matter who they play and the ground shouldn’t matter.

Four straight years of non Vic teams losing to Victorian ones has enabled a kind of victim mentality, but no one outside Victoria was complaining when non Vic teams dominated between 1992-2006.

The tide will turn. Unlikely to be many Vic teams celebrating in the next few years.

Adelaide was spoken up like the greatest team of all time in the run up to the grand final

amazing forward line, great mid, stoic defence etc.

 

[Marcel Proust]

It's funny how some think that Victorians will just change clubs and follow the nation comp, it won't happen, a few maybe, but most will just give up footy.

And like you are trying to get through, this is where the majority of support is.

like how many Fitzory fans just stopped following the game

 

[deltablues]

Lol. Are you guys that stupid? It's about money. It's always about money. The move into NSW and Queensland is to make more and more money in the long term. The whole comp is designed to propagate and promote the big 5 or 6 Victorian sides. The other 3 or 4 are used to prop up the bigger ones and know not to step out of line because they can't afford to and are just happy to still have a seat at the big table.

It is true the AFL don't mind Sydney doing well because they covet the money and acceptance from Australia's most important city, but outside of that they just want the "interstate" sides doing well enough to keep rolling up and paying their money but not really contending. Despite all this West Coast have risen to be the biggest and richest club in the country. Will be interesting to see whether the AFL move to curb them in the near future. Maybe they are happy with one "interstate" bogeyman?

Similar to Formula 1 GP.

 

[Pessimistic]

Historically australia was dominated by melbourne and sydney, the rivalry being the biggest story.
Gepgraphically isolated from each other they developed different codes. Had there been just one code, it would have been dominated mostly by melbourne and sydney teams

 

[Gavin Excell]

There is an alternative, it’s called forward thinking. There is more money to be made in the long term from an equitable national competition. You seem to be arguing that the AFL would/should chase the maximum Vic dollars today and become equitable only when there is just as much cash to be made from outside Vic. Alternatively, creating an equitable competition may actually hasten the addition of fans outside Vic and more money overall.

Many a business has lost out in the long run chasing short term dollars. An example of this is the terribly shortsighted decision to lock the grand final in at the MCG for 50 years just to get some cash upfront in the way of upgrades.

Can equity be achieved without reducing number of Victorian clubs?

 

[JerryRapidRiser]

It's entirely possible but it requires some short term pain.

No CEO is going to have the balls to do it on their watch. Best leave it for the next person.

And repeat.

 

[Pessimistic]

If instead of one expensive stadium at docklands the afl had built 2 or 3 less expensive smaller ones spread around melbourne with three tenants each, the MCG could be more of a neutral ground where every club gets 3-4 games each season

But then youd be up against the mcc and its connections

So most melbounte clubs would play home games at 40k stadiums, often locking the away teams supporters out. Except for 2-4 games each year when they play at the mcg. But those games would be 50:50 against non melbourne teams as the away team

 

[Marc_Remillard]

It's a competition where the administrators deliberately manipulate the results to increase revenue, it not being national is the least of our concerns.

 

[JackOutback]

Can equity be achieved without reducing number of Victorian clubs?

Probably not, but that would be the end game, 50 to 100 years away. It would take serious vision to start laying the groundwork for that competition though and that’s a rare commodity these days.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's funny how some think that Victorians will just change clubs and follow the nation comp, it won't happen, a few maybe, but most will just give up footy.

And like you are trying to get through, this is where the majority of support is.

Yeah there does seem to be a narrative of "build it and they will come". And as I've tried to explain if it were possible to have a truly equitable and national comp without losing the supporting market we'd have it already.

Some can't see the big picture though.

 

[Carringbush2010]

like how many Fitzory fans just stopped following the game

And many South Melbourne supporters, HQ didn't realise their error until too late and it's probably why they're averse to the idea merging/folding/relocating current clubs to suit a national comp.

 

[Marcel Proust]

And many South Melbourne supporters, HQ didn't realise their error until too late and it's probably why they're averse to the idea merging/folding/relocating current clubs to suit a national comp.

You still seem to meet a lot of elderly that are 'South Melbourne fans' that follow the swans

but i often wonder about the hoards that died off. Certainly a massive % of Lions fans gave it away

 

[Carringbush2010]

Can equity be achieved without reducing number of Victorian clubs?

It can't be achieved without doing so! It's losing the fan and member bases HQ are concerned about.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Probably not, but that would be the end game, 50 to 100 years away. It would take serious vision to start laying the groundwork for that competition though and that’s a rare commodity these days.

Hypothetically would you be in favour brand new start up clubs or bastardise the current V/AFL to achieve a truly national and equitable comp? Answer honestly.

 

[Pessimistic]

Probably not, but that would be the end game, 50 to 100 years away. It would take serious vision to start laying the groundwork for that competition though and that’s a rare commodity these days.

Youd have to wait for melbourne to be the fastest growing city in australia first

 

[Pessimistic]

And many South Melbourne supporters, HQ didn't realise their error until too late and it's probably why they're averse to the idea merging/folding/relocating current clubs to suit a national comp.

Particularly after trying to white ant certain clubs in order to achieve those idealogical aims

 

[Pessimistic]

It's a competition where the administrators deliberately manipulate the results to increase revenue, it not being national is the least of our concerns.

Its also to allow maximum numbers of fans to attend games (except the grand final of course)

 

[Marc_Remillard]

Its also to allow maximum numbers of fans to attend games (except the grand final of course)

Yep, it's entertainment masked as a competition to generate as much revenue as possible so the administrators can earn as much as they possibly can through their bonuses

 

[Freomaniac]

It won't be national for the simple fact that it isn't! NSW and QLD are rugby states and will remain so. A niche may exist, but Gold Coast and GWS will eventually fold. Western Sydney is NRL heartland.

GWS wont fold anytime soon, eapecially making the 2019 GF.

GWS have 30,000 members. Gold coast only has 13,500 members. Shows the difference between running a club well.

Impressive GWS have 30,000 members in 8-9 seasons. shows how a bit of success can go a long way.

Lol. Are you guys that stupid? It's about money. It's always about money. The move into NSW and Queensland is to make more and more money in the long term. The whole comp is designed to propagate and promote the big 5 or 6 Victorian sides. The other 3 or 4 are used to prop up the bigger ones and know not to step out of line because they can't afford to and are just happy to still have a seat at the big table.

It is true the AFL don't mind Sydney doing well because they covet the money and acceptance from Australia's most important city, but outside of that they just want the "interstate" sides doing well enough to keep rolling up and paying their money but not really contending. Despite all this West Coast have risen to be the biggest and richest club in the country. Will be interesting to see whether the AFL move to curb them in the near future. Maybe they are happy with one "interstate" bogeyman?

Bingo. We have 18 teams in the AFL. 10 from Victoria, 2 each from SA, WA, QLD and NSW. The AFL makes money having 1 SA, WA, QLD and NSW side play at home.

The AFL promotes the big 4 or 5 Vic sides. While teams like North and Saints and Dogs get proped up playing teams like Carlton and Collingwood and Essendon twice as they get them each at home and away. Both times they will get 30-40,000 people and the poorer vic clubs get money.

you wont see teams like North or Saints or Dogs get 40,000 plus against non vic sides like Freo, Port or Suns unless that vic side is doing well and is in the top 4.

Your right about the AFL in Sydney. NSW has around 7 millon people and they want a piece of that money. Back in the Early 1990s, Swans struggled to get 10,000 at the SCG. By 2003, they got around 50-60,000 in a prelim loss to Brisbane. Hell Look at GWS, They have 30,000 members. Giants stadium only holds 25,000 seats, that should of been a 30-35,000 seat stadium.

I am glad Brisbane is great again. As a neutral I missed the days of 1999-2004 when the Gabba was constantly sold out. It only had 35,000 seats back then.

West coast are one of the Richest teams in the country due to the Prices of tickets. Freo in their days at subi was getting 30,000 in a 43,000 seat subiaco. Now they get 40,000 in a 60,000 perth stadium. So if Freo filll 2/3s of the stadium, they should be making money.

I remember back in 2011, Seats at Footy park in Adelaide for Crows and Port games were $30-35. I went to a Freo game in 2011 vs the suns and that was $55.

Crows and Port are filling out Adelaide oval mainly because there are cheap seats. and its cheap to get a spot on the hill too.

 

[CarnTheScray]

GWS wont fold anytime soon, eapecially making the 2019 GF.

GWS have 30,000 members. Gold coast only has 13,500 members. Shows the difference between running a club well.

Impressive GWS have 30,000 members in 8-9 seasons. shows how a bit of success can go a long way.




Bingo. We have 18 teams in the AFL. 10 from Victoria, 2 each from SA, WA, QLD and NSW. The AFL makes money having 1 SA, WA, QLD and NSW side play at home.

The AFL promotes the big 4 or 5 Vic sides. While teams like North and Saints and Dogs get proped up playing teams like Carlton and Collingwood and Essendon twice as they get them each at home and away. Both times they will get 30-40,000 people and the poorer vic clubs get money.

you wont see teams like North or Saints or Dogs get 40,000 plus against non vic sides like Freo, Port or Suns unless that vic side is doing well and is in the top 4.

Your right about the AFL in Sydney. NSW has around 7 millon people and they want a piece of that money. Back in the Early 1990s, Swans struggled to get 10,000 at the SCG. By 2003, they got around 50-60,000 in a prelim loss to Brisbane. Hell Look at GWS, They have 30,000 members. Giants stadium only holds 25,000 seats, that should of been a 30-35,000 seat stadium.

I am glad Brisbane is great again. As a neutral I missed the days of 1999-2004 when the Gabba was constantly sold out. It only had 35,000 seats back then.

West coast are one of the Richest teams in the country due to the Prices of tickets. Freo in their days at subi was getting 30,000 in a 43,000 seat subiaco. Now they get 40,000 in a 60,000 perth stadium. So if Freo filll 2/3s of the stadium, they should be making money.

I remember back in 2011, Seats at Footy park in Adelaide for Crows and Port games were $30-35. I went to a Freo game in 2011 vs the suns and that was $55.

Crows and Port are filling out Adelaide oval mainly because there are cheap seats. and its cheap to get a spot on the hill too.

If you believe that those membership numbers are true, then you are kidding yourself.

 

[Yeti]

If you believe that those membership numbers are true, then you are kidding yourself.

Same could be said for all club's membership numbers.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Your right about the AFL in Sydney. NSW has around 7 millon people and they want a piece of that money. Back in the Early 1990s, Swans struggled to get 10,000 at the SCG. By 2003, they got around 50-60,000 in a prelim loss to Brisbane. Hell Look at GWS, They have 30,000 members. Giants stadium only holds 25,000 seats, that should of been a 30-35,000 seat stadium.

The thing about clubs north of the Murray is that they're in RL heartland, so their member numbers are reliant on sustained good on field performances. In essence their fans and members aren't footy fans like those in footy heartlands. Not many of them anyway, I'd argue that most Syd fans that live in Syd wouldn't know Buddy's first name - only know him as Buddy. You've rightly pointed out when the times are good the crowds and numbers go up just as much as they go down in the bad times. Bris is a good indicator of that.

Crows and Port are filling out Adelaide oval mainly because there are cheap seats. and its cheap to get a spot on the hill too.

Really? Crows and Port fans fill out AO because they're mad footy fans - not because of cheap seats.