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Fixture Why the proposed split the ladder into thirds after 18 games is stupid.

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For years now, whenever someone brings up the idea of evening out the fixtures to eliminate some teams getting an easier run (ie. Brisbane having 5 double up games vs top 8 teams this year, compared to 2 with Geelong) the argument always rears it’s head to say ‘play everyone once, plus a rivalry game, followed by splitting the league into thirds and you all play the same schedule’

But what these people fail to realise is that it’s effectively logistically impossible to work.

You’re creating the split once everyone has played 18 games. 9 teams will have 9h, 1n (Gather Rd) and 8a. Whereas 9 teams have 8h, 1n (Gather Rd) and 9a. But it’s almost certain that at least one of the thirds would have an uneven amount of teams within this split.

Say we reach this stage and Collingwood, Geelong, Adelaide, Brisbane, Western Bulldogs and Hawthorn are the first group. But they have all played 9h, 1n, 8a after their games. How do you split their games now? They can only play each other, so 3 teams will finish on 12h, 1n, 10a and the other 3 will be 11h, 1n, 11a. So 3 teams get an advantage, and 3 are disadvantaged in just that group of 6 teams. But at the same time, you can have the bottom 6 entering at 8h, 1n, 9a. Which leads to 3 teams finishing 10h, 1n, 12a with the other 3 having an even amount (11/1/11). By doing the split, you can not ensure all teams have an equal h:a record.

And on another point, what happens when you fall in the same group as your rival. You get 3 games in a year? Under the logic that’s presented atm, GWS and Sydney would be in the same group this year. They would’ve played early, then they would have played each other as rivals, then again in the group? Again, a statistical anomaly people don’t want.

This idea, despite coming from a good place, and trying to do better, has more flaws in it than just about any idea I’ve seen for a fixture, and to be frank with you, is sheer stupidity.

There are ways to twist the concept and make it work (Basing it off the previous years ladder - 1 group being 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th. Another being 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th. With the remainder being the other group. Then using the remaining game to get the best rivalry game you can get) But any idea brought up where you create the groups mid year would require a miracle to even create a fixture which ensures that all teams have the same amount of home and away games, as well as not getting 3 matchups vs a team.

I know people are trying to find ways to fix a flawed system. But this idea is lunacy and almost certainly create an option which is much worse than the status quo.

The fact that this idea still gets brought up time and time again after about one and a half decades since first being suggested, and has fans, media and players alike all liking it. Shows just how stupid many are.

You can not guarantee that everyone plays the same amount of home and away games if you split the league into thirds after 17/18 games. You cant.
 
Since I was proposing this when the year consisted of 22 rounds, there was never a risk of a triple-up.

When you look at Brisbane’s draw this year - as a top six team they play 2-3 teams from last year’s top six as double-ups (they got Sydney, Geelong and Bulldogs, which is roughly an average return), 1-2 teams that finished 7-12 (they got Colllingwood and Hawthorn) and 1-2 teams that finished 13-18 (they got Gold Coast), we might as well stop kidding ourselves that the current fixture system is fair.
 
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Since I was proposing this when the year consisted of 22 rounds, there was never a risk of a triple-up.

When you look at Brisbane’s draw this year - as a top six team they play 2-3 teams from last year’s top six as double-ups (they got Sydney, Geelong and Fremantle, which is roughly an average return), 1-2 teams that finished 7-12 (they got Colllingwood) and 1-2 teams that finished 13-18 (they got Adelaide and Gold Coast), we might as well stop kidding ourselves that the current fixture system is fair.
One option is when doing the fixture split the 2024 finishing position into 3 groups of 6. Play the others in your group twice (10 games) and a 'rival' outside your group twice (2 games) All other teams once (11 games). That makes 23 games.

Crows would have had double ups against Port (Rival) along with Gold Coast, Melbourne, West Coast, North and Richmond.

Issue.... the sides finishing 13th/14th would get a big leg up for the next season promoting tanking.
 
Since I was proposing this when the year consisted of 22 rounds, there was never a risk of a triple-up.

When you look at Brisbane’s draw this year - as a top six team they play 2-3 teams from last year’s top six as double-ups (they got Sydney, Geelong and Fremantle, which is roughly an average return), 1-2 teams that finished 7-12 (they got Colllingwood) and 1-2 teams that finished 13-18 (they got Adelaide and Gold Coast), we might as well stop kidding ourselves that the current fixture system is fair.
They got Hawks twice, not Freo.
 

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One option is when doing the fixture split the 2024 finishing position into 3 groups of 6. Play the others in your group twice (10 games) and a 'rival' outside your group twice (2 games) All other teams once (11 games). That makes 23 games.

Crows would have had double ups against Port (Rival) along with Gold Coast, Melbourne, West Coast, North and Richmond.

Issue.... the sides finishing 13th/14th would get a big leg up for the next season promoting tanking.
It makes more sense to have the split after 17 rounds - 18 if we really want the rivals rematch. Have workarounds if somebody would play their rival a third time.
 
For years now, whenever someone brings up the idea of evening out the fixtures to eliminate some teams getting an easier run (ie. Brisbane having 5 double up games vs top 8 teams this year, compared to 2 with Geelong) the argument always rears it’s head to say ‘play everyone once, plus a rivalry game, followed by splitting the league into thirds and you all play the same schedule’

But what these people fail to realise is that it’s effectively logistically impossible to work.

You’re creating the split once everyone has played 18 games. 9 teams will have 9h, 1n (Gather Rd) and 8a. Whereas 9 teams have 8h, 1n (Gather Rd) and 9a. But it’s almost certain that at least one of the thirds would have an uneven amount of teams within this split.

Say we reach this stage and Collingwood, Geelong, Adelaide, Brisbane, Western Bulldogs and Hawthorn are the first group. But they have all played 9h, 1n, 8a after their games. How do you split their games now? They can only play each other, so 3 teams will finish on 12h, 1n, 10a and the other 3 will be 11h, 1n, 11a. So 3 teams get an advantage, and 3 are disadvantaged in just that group of 6 teams. But at the same time, you can have the bottom 6 entering at 8h, 1n, 9a. Which leads to 3 teams finishing 10h, 1n, 12a with the other 3 having an even amount (11/1/11). By doing the split, you can not ensure all teams have an equal h:a record.

And on another point, what happens when you fall in the same group as your rival. You get 3 games in a year? Under the logic that’s presented atm, GWS and Sydney would be in the same group this year. They would’ve played early, then they would have played each other as rivals, then again in the group? Again, a statistical anomaly people don’t want.

This idea, despite coming from a good place, and trying to do better, has more flaws in it than just about any idea I’ve seen for a fixture, and to be frank with you, is sheer stupidity.

There are ways to twist the concept and make it work (Basing it off the previous years ladder - 1 group being 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th. Another being 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th. With the remainder being the other group. Then using the remaining game to get the best rivalry game you can get) But any idea brought up where you create the groups mid year would require a miracle to even create a fixture which ensures that all teams have the same amount of home and away games, as well as not getting 3 matchups vs a team.

I know people are trying to find ways to fix a flawed system. But this idea is lunacy and almost certainly create an option which is much worse than the status quo.

The fact that this idea still gets brought up time and time again after about one and a half decades since first being suggested, and has fans, media and players alike all liking it. Shows just how stupid many are.

You can not guarantee that everyone plays the same amount of home and away games if you split the league into thirds after 17/18 games. You cant.
Tell me if I'm wrong, but it looks likes this entire post is based on an 18-5 model. And then you declare at the end that a 17-5 is also unworkable.

A 17-5 would work fine. Teams are split into groups after having played each other once: all clubs have had 8 home, 8 away and 1 neutral (gather round), so we're even there. You then have two options for the second bracket of 5 games.

Option 1:
The 3 teams in the top half of each group of six play 3 home, 2 away; the 3 teams in the bottom half play 2 home, 3 away. Sure, an uneven number of home and away games. Still, it's a rule-based, even-handed means of determining this, with teams rewarded for finishing higher after 17 matches.

Option 2:
Have a second round of neutral matches (i.e. a second gather round) in the final block of 5 games. Hence, everyone plays 2 home, 2 away, one neutral. Leaving all 18 teams with 10 home, 10 away, 2 neutral over the course of the season.

In other words, all the problems you mention are resolved by doing away with the 18th 'Rivalry round' (which I always thought was a dumb idea anyway).

Obviously things get more complicated when they move to 19 clubs.
 
The only reason these shit ideas keep getting brought up because x team whines they had a tougher draw than y team in the double ups.

And if it ain't the double ups it's the who played who where or how many 6 day breaks vs 7 day breaks. Everyone's always looking for something outside there own control to blame on why they missed finals or top 4 by percentage or by a game.
 
The only reason these shit ideas keep getting brought up because x team whines they had a tougher draw than y team in the double ups.

And if it ain't the double ups it's the who played who where or how many 6 day breaks vs 7 day breaks. Everyone's always looking for something outside there own control to blame on why they missed finals or top 4 by percentage or by a game.
Yep,
Everyone except for Collingwood fans who get 17 games at the G and a very nice free kick count ratio.

Maybe add in Geelong fans too.
 
Yep,
Everyone except for Collingwood fans who get 17 games at the G and a very nice free kick count ratio.

Maybe add in Geelong fans too.

The team who plays less games at their home ground/city than everyone else and win more wherever we play than every other team. Right. Yeah we sure have it set up for us season after season.

Be better and win more.
 
Rivalry round is made up bullshit. I couldn't give a toss whether we only play the Eagles once some years. So the rant in the OP about possibly playing a team 3 times is a complete distraction. Remove rivalry round from fixture consideration.

The fixture currently is a joke, because double ups are based on a combination of last years form and manufacturing "blockbusters".

The purest solution is to have either double ups with everyone (play every team twice ) or no one (play every team once).

But if we can't have the purest solution, it is better to have double ups based on this years form than last years. Hence the 17-5 fixture is fairer. It isn't perfect but it's better than what we have.
 
Rivalry round is made up bullshit. I couldn't give a toss whether we only play the Eagles once some years. So the rant in the OP about possibly playing a team 3 times is a complete distraction. Remove rivalry round from fixture consideration.

The fixture currently is a joke, because double ups are based on a combination of last years form and manufacturing "blockbusters".

The purest solution is to have either double ups with everyone (play every team twice ) or no one (play every team once).

But if we can't have the purest solution, it is better to have double ups based on this years form than last years. Hence the 17-5 fixture is fairer. It isn't perfect but it's better than what we have.
That's great and all, but lets not throw out a guaranteed double up against West Coast until after they stop winning spoons.
Cheers.
 

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The AFL fixture is structured to maximise revenue, not fairness.
you know what maximises revenue? finals games. higher priced seats.
play everyone once.
then top 8, all best of 3 finals. more finals, more money, makes up for lost H&A games.
 
I like the 17/5 model. Top 6 can sort themselves last 5 rounds, middle 6 can play for final 3 spots , bottom 6 id give top placed a wildcard after those last 5 rounds.
On top of that, top 6 sides can play thurs Fri n sat last five rounds the two other groups off broadway sat n sun.
 

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Fixture Why the proposed split the ladder into thirds after 18 games is stupid.

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