TradeDraft
Post-Human
Well would of been better then have Keeffe run around in a Postion he has hardly ever played
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Why was Keeffe up forward last night?
- Thread starter suspect footskills
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Well would of been better then have Keeffe run around in a Postion he has hardly ever played
- Aug 11, 2008
- 8,962
- 12,264
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
Played three talls since Essendon (massive win), Sydney (massive win), West Coast (massive win). It's just that instead of Lynch, who was injured, we had Keeffe - there are no more options on our list. Collingwood's desired setup has always been three talls. Players should be able to play in different spots, it's what Hawthorn have been trying for the last couple years.
Next part's not directed at you Kenno, but if anyone had been paying attention all year Port flood back and put numbers on Cloke - most teams have worked this out and since our midfield is incapable of clean delivery we have had to set up big targets for them. If we had Cloke up there by himself and Reid or Keeffe or both in the backline it would've been way worse than it was. Buckley didn't have a choice.
The real issue was not Keeffe up forward, it was the deplorable "effort" and turnovers...Pies had decided they had already won this final before turning up and got ahead of themselves. Then crumbled when Port applied the clamps. Pies have shithouse skills and are mentally weak. Gameplan tonight was not the issue, Buckley mentions this in the presser.
Would've been the slowest and most unaccountable forward line in the history of AFL with Ben Reid, Cloke, Didak, Witts. Especially since Port are so fast
Williamc99
Rapscallion
My question is probably why the hell was Maxwell up forward in various stages of the game? At least Keefe can mark it and is a tall player so he's less likely to get get outbodied by a stronger defense. Keefe is also, I'd say, a better kick of the football than Maxwell so that's the main question I'd probably ask.
- Aug 11, 2008
- 8,962
- 12,264
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
The same reason, Port have a tiny forward line - Maxwell is accountable back there so they pushed him up as a defending forward. Problem is Maxwell is well past it and I think it would look pretty silly to drop the captain in finals.
We may see quite a list overhaul this summer.
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Williamc99
Rapscallion
Maxwell may well be accountable down back but he did absolutely nothing of note in the forward line. I'd just keep him where he has some idea of what he's doing, even if he doesn't do it well.
My other question would be: Why was Brown always a metre behind his opponent? He got carved up last night and nothing was done about it. He should have been the sub, not Elliot.
My other question would be: Why was Brown always a metre behind his opponent? He got carved up last night and nothing was done about it. He should have been the sub, not Elliot.
I'd like to know why there were no talls in the emergencies when Lynch was clearly under an injury cloud. Ben Hudson wouldn't have gone too badly last night playing Lynch's role. Ah well, what's done is done, I guess we should all move on to thinking about what's on offer next season.
Resting ruckman, but his not good forward at all.
Pera
⚪️⚫️⚪️⚫️⚪️⚫️
The biggest question mark was why Dane was playing forward for 80% of the game.
Williamc99
Rapscallion
Well Swanny seemed to be one of the only ones doing anything up Forward.
Agree, and i will also add that we went to the well once too often with Reid forward all game, should have been sent back at some stage, Keefe subbed and a smaller forward unit around Cloke.
Port just walked the ball out so often and we did nothing to change it.
Big targets? nah don't agree here, Port clog up the whole backline so 3 big targets are less likely to be able to find space, are usually gone once it hits the ground, and the defensive pressure drops because they are well.. big and slow.
There are different ways to skin a cat mate, hypothetically say Cloke and Reid miss 10 games together what happens? the results may drop off but you find different options and ways of scoring.
This is put into practice by REALLY GOOD sides when things are not going right during a game or during a season for their incumbent structure, its called flexibility and options and we have neither.
I'm not talking about players but structure and avenues that differ from the norm and can be implemented to great effect.
It was all about finally putting to rest that old chestnut that Keefe could be our mobile second ruck.
Maxwell/Keeffe forward, Swan forward, the continued bombing to outnumbered contests, there were many weird things about last night.
It's over, I'll be disappointed if we don't act in the off season. Make a play for a free agent. Trade for picks. Something. Going around again as is could be a disaster.
It's over, I'll be disappointed if we don't act in the off season. Make a play for a free agent. Trade for picks. Something. Going around again as is could be a disaster.
Next part's not directed at you Kenno, but if anyone had been paying attention all year Port flood back and put numbers on Cloke - most teams have worked this out and since our midfield is incapable of clean delivery we have had to set up big targets for them. If we had Cloke up there by himself and Reid or Keeffe or both in the backline it would've been way worse than it was. Buckley didn't have a choice.
The real issue was not Keeffe up forward, it was the deplorable "effort" and turnovers...Pies had decided they had already won this final before turning up and got ahead of themselves. Then crumbled when Port applied the clamps. Pies have shithouse skills and are mentally weak. Gameplan tonight was not the issue, Buckley mentions this in the presser.
Beg to differ on this point. If you have 3 marking talls, the imperative is kick the ball to them with long kicks as fast as possible. Our game plan is for the midfielders to hold on to the ball by kicking short to each other and wait for that opening in the forward line. In finals, it's very difficult to keep an open forward line unless you flood the defensive half.
It is also strange to see a team whose disposal is poor by AFL standards, keen to gather high possession numbers that are full of ineffectual disposals and/or turnovers.
Our switch of play also works against our forwards because it only ever retains possession, and slows us down, so the opposition flood back onto Cloke. If you are going to switch play it needs to set up fast breaks into the forward line.
Let's not get started on the Heath Shaw kickouts to the back pocket. They destroy any advantage we may have gained from the ball being our hands after a point.
So I do think our gameplan is not a good one for the strengths and weaknesses of this team. I really think this team needs to go back to long kicking style it played in 2010/2011 and have a play on at all costs mentallity in order to cover our weaknesses.
Also don't agree we are mentally weak. It was simply the poor execution of the basic skill of kicking and a game plan that that has led to very slow ball movement that caused this loss.
Keeffe, Cloke, Reid and Maxwell were all forward to stretch Port in height and to try implement the Hawthorn forward line in Hale, Roughead, Franklin and Gunston. In theory it was a decent plan but it didn't work because unlike Hawthorn our Midfielder's cant kick and our Forwards cant mark, 15 more insides 50's backs this fact.
jmac70
On the porch
CREDIT....showing improvement.
Thank you, though in my defence the earlier comments I made were rage induced. Apologies.
jmac70
On the porch
We are all hurting. Having been around for a fair while I can promise you that following the Pies is not an easy task. There will be plenty more bad days to come, hopefully with a few good ones thrown in.
