Why we will win the premiership in 2015

[THATSGOLD]

Do you have to take your bollocks out of your mouth when you're having a drink each time??

3am & back on the Anti Bucks bullshit.

I've never jumped off the anti Bucks bs. I still don't believe he's up to it as a coach or has the people skills to keep a team together. Yes Hine is getting the younger guys and that's good scope for the future but I'll be surprised if Buckley can keep them all togther.

 

[jjsmitty8]

The question isn't whether they respect him....it's whether they will play for him. The master used to have the team eating out of his hand. He could ask Dane Swan to bark like a dog and he'd do it. He could ask Alan Didak to recite the alphabet backwards. The current coach couldnt even get the players to kick the ball to each other. The master could have got the team to do a lap of the oval on their knees. There may be respect for the current coach, but no devotion.

Respect is a pretty handy first step though.

Look, there's no doubt that Mick Malthouse is a great coach. You're right, he had the squad of 2010/2011 eating out of his hand. But so did Ross Lyon in 2009/10/11. Clubs evolve, personnel changes, all good things come to an end. Whilst I agree that our good thing came to an end prematurely, the succession plan was in place before any grand final appearances. What would we all be saying today if we finished outside the 8 in 2010/11? We'd be saying "good riddance Mick is gone", "12 seasons as coach and no premierships, Mick was overrated anyway." It was a win/loss situation either way. Win a flag, lose a coach or miss out on a flag and get a new coach with new philosophies. It just so happens that we got the ultimate glory and the changes went ahead.

Nathan Buckley has always had Collingwood's best interest at heart all through his coaching and playing days. He is a competitive beast and very intellectual. People need to start living in the present and stop comparing him to Mick. He has his own style, and a list he has built. No man is bigger than the cause, so if guys like Daisy, Harry and Beams want to go, then i'll gladly show them the door. If it's all over a struggling relationship, then I don't want them at our club.

 

[mike123]

I've never jumped off the anti Bucks bs. I still don't believe he's up to it as a coach or has the people skills to keep a team together. Yes Hine is getting the younger guys and that's good scope for the future but I'll be surprised if Buckley can keep them all togther.

I thought the younger guys Hine is getting looked up to Bucks.

 

[THATSGOLD]

I thought the younger guys Hine is getting looked up to Bucks.

What are they meant to say?

 

[MarkT2]

Nathan Buckley has always had Collingwood's best interest at heart all through his coaching and playing days. He is a competitive beast and very intellectual. People need to start living in the present and stop comparing him to Mick. He has his own style, and a list he has built. No man is bigger than the cause, so if guys like Daisy, Harry and Beams want to go, then i'll gladly show them the door. If it's all over a struggling relationship, then I don't want them at our club.

No man including the coach?

IF Buckley is the reason some of our best players want out then Buckley has to go. No if, buts or maybe's. If you can't coach your players, let alone a number of your best players, you can't coach.

At what point would you daw the line? If 1 more leaves? if 2 or 4 more leave?

 

[PieBeast]

Funny how Buckley has all of a sudden turned from being the guy who destroyed a dynasty, into a guy who's building his own.

I'll just stand back and say I've always been of the opinion that he has our best interest at heart, and I've always been a Buckley supporter.

You and your soulmates can get chirpy all you like when and if Bucks turns us into a powerhouse we were at the time of the take over, until then you'd be best advised to keep your delusions of superior judgement to yourself.
And while no one of the sane mind can question he has our best interests at heart we can certainly question his methods and people skills as the current state of play suggests they are far from perfect.

 

[Maggie5]

Is this going to turn into another anti-Bucks thread?

 

[jjsmitty8]

No man including the coach?

IF Buckley is the reason some of our best players want out then Buckley has to go. No if, buts or maybe's. If you can't coach your players, let alone a number of your best players, you can't coach.

At what point would you daw the line? If 1 more leaves? if 2 or 4 more leave?

No man means no man.

I do see where you're coming from, but what do you and I know about the reasons for Beams, Lumumba and Thomas leaving? What do we really know about the inner sanctum? As far as I'm aware, Beams wanted out for 'family reasons', Lumumba didn't get along with Buckley, Thomas wanted to be reunited with Mick and earn more money (can't blame him), Buckley couldn't see a place for Didak, Jolly and Krakouer, add Shaw to that list too but we did bring in Taylor Adams. So if i'm not mistaken, that makes one guy who left purely because he didn't get along with Nathan.

You and your soulmates can get chirpy all you like when and if Bucks turns us into a powerhouse we were at the time of the take over, until then you'd be best advised to keep your delusions of superior judgement to yourself.
And while no one of the sane mind can question he has our best interests at heart we can certainly question his methods and people skills as the current state of play suggests they are far from perfect.

Oh, i'm sorry. I didn't realise this wasn't an open forum. My bad.

I don't remember saying anti-Buckley people were delirious. I was just saying that if you keep comparing him to Mick Malthouse, then you're going to be sorely disappointed. While I'm at it, how's Mick going at Carlton? Maybe he was just lucky to have a really good group, maybe he did just get lucky and have everyone buy into what he was selling. But that's certainly not that case with his Carlton squad, just like it's not with Nathan Buckley and his Collingwood team.

 

[PieBeast]

^^^ none of this changes anything I said.

Preemptive bragging about something that is yet to happen while taking pot shots at people who aren't happy with the status quo comes across rather silly.

 

[jjsmitty8]

^^^ none of this changes anything I said.

Preemptive bragging about something that is yet to happen while taking pot shots at people who aren't happy with the status quo comes across rather silly.

Pot Shots? haha, okay. Please quote me where I said Buckley was going to lead us to 5 consecutive premierships. Nothing wrong with actually supporting, rather than always pointing out defects.

Will have to agree to disagree.

 

[PieBeast]

Pot Shots? haha, okay. Please quote me where I said Buckley was going to lead us to 5 consecutive premierships. Nothing wrong with actually supporting, rather than always pointing out defects.

Will have to agree to disagree.

Surely your initial post I replied to claimed some sort of moral superiority, at least that's how I read it.
There's also nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade and expressing concerns about our direction.
Optimism based on hopes of brighter future is fine but it certainly isn't the basis for bragging until it becomes a reality.

 

[Vicky Park]

If players keep walking out (they will again no doubt at the end of 2015) then how can you keep a team together as a coach? He's never had any of the group. Ever.

Good to see you back in form TG. For a while there you were being positive. It was unnerving.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Good to see you back in form TG. For a while there you were being positive. It was unnerving.

Just got a bad feeling we a building another good group but the wrong man is in charge of it again. Seeing Tapping talk and introduce the young players to the group gave me more confidence than anything Buckley has said to the group. Strange.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

The question isn't whether they respect him....it's whether they will play for him. The master used to have the team eating out of his hand. He could ask Dane Swan to bark like a dog and he'd do it. He could ask Alan Didak to recite the alphabet backwards. The current coach couldnt even get the players to kick the ball to each other. The master could have got the team to do a lap of the oval on their knees. There may be respect for the current coach, but no devotion.

Mick malhouse got a free ride to a premiership.
He wasn't a good coach, he was a stubborn old codger stuck in old ways, and when bucks came in as fwd line coach and implemented the press we turned it around.
We had a team with elite stars all in the form of their careers, like swan, Pendles, ball, didak, Cloke, Reid, jolly, Thomas, Davis, presti, bj, Harry, Heath, and a fine group of support in guys like Wellingham, Leigh brown, beams, Dawes, Caff, brown, toovey, sidebottom etc, all also peaking in form and consistency.
We didn't need malthouse, if anything he just was holding them back, and he got lucky that the group gelled and peaked. Anyone coaching that group could have taken home the premiership with ourpt much effort.

 

[Vicky Park]

It was interesting to see Tapping had a role in the draftees' first day. I assume that's because they will be spending significant time in the twos. Tapping is an important member of Buck's team. Glad he's hanging in there, coming up for his third year as coach of the twos.

 

[Markfs]

Mick malhouse got a free ride to a premiership.
He wasn't a good coach, he was a stubborn old codger stuck in old ways, and when bucks came in as fwd line coach and implemented the press we turned it around.
We had a team with elite stars all in the form of their careers, like swan, Pendles, ball, didak, Cloke, Reid, jolly, Thomas, Davis, presti, bj, Harry, Heath, and a fine group of support in guys like Wellingham, Leigh brown, beams, Dawes, Caff, brown, toovey, sidebottom etc, all also peaking in form and consistency.
We didn't need malthouse, if anything he just was holding them back, and he got lucky that the group gelled and peaked. Anyone coaching that group could have taken home the premiership with ourpt much effort.

They needed gelling. They needed a master motivator to draw their best. If you want an objective assessment about just good he is, then you should read this
http://www.allenandunwin.com/default.aspx?page=94&book=9781742378145

I know you're just trying to stir the pot when you say that anyone could have coached the Pies to the premiership....

 

[Krueger]

What are they meant to say?

Exactly. You can hardly expect a rookie to storm into Perts office saying they dont respect the coach.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Exactly. You can hardly expect a rookie to storm into Perts office saying they dont respect the coach.

Poor form no matter how long you've been there.

 

[Chief Ten Beers]

If Malthouse was still coach, this thread wouldn't exist and you wouldn't be reading this now.

 

[Maggie5]

Mick malhouse got a free ride to a premiership.
He wasn't a good coach, he was a stubborn old codger stuck in old ways, and when bucks came in as fwd line coach and implemented the press we turned it around.
We had a team with elite stars all in the form of their careers, like swan, Pendles, ball, didak, Cloke, Reid, jolly, Thomas, Davis, presti, bj, Harry, Heath, and a fine group of support in guys like Wellingham, Leigh brown, beams, Dawes, Caff, brown, toovey, sidebottom etc, all also peaking in form and consistency.
We didn't need malthouse, if anything he just was holding them back, and he got lucky that the group gelled and peaked. Anyone coaching that group could have taken home the premiership with ourpt much effort.

Getting back to thread title, I share your optimism and this post.
I realise that there may be a few 'ifs' but with a fit Reid, Brown, some new blood, Adams starting off how he finished, a better run with injuries, we will give the final 8 a good shake.

 

[THATSGOLD]

It was interesting to see Tapping had a role in the draftees' first day. I assume that's because they will be spending significant time in the twos. Tapping is an important member of Buck's team. Glad he's hanging in there, coming up for his third year as coach of the twos.

Speaks 15 times better than Buckley. When he talks you listen. Thats even just watching a simple video grab. Buckley to me comes across uninspiring when he talks. The smirk on his face when Bucks talks I just can't take him seriously. That's just me so I don't know what the players are thinking..

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

Getting back to thread title, I share your optimism and this post.
I realise that there may be a few 'ifs' but with a fit Reid, Brown, some new blood, Adams starting off how he finished, a better run with injuries, we will give the final 8 a good shake.

Not the final 8. I'm saying that if we have an injury free year, and guys like Reid, Elliot, varcoe, Pendles, Cloke, sidebottom, freeman, Seedsman, Williams, toovey, brown etc get a good consistent injury free run, and play their best footy, that they are more than capable of, and a few of the other players coming through like greenwood, Adams, frost and Langdon, Armstrong, witts and Grundy, de goey, Maynard, karnezis, show promise and good support we will win the premiership. We have serious depth of talent now. I'm supremely confident we can win it.

 

[Bring_Back_Brad]

They needed gelling. They needed a master motivator to draw their best. If you want an objective assessment about just good he is, then you should read this
http://www.allenandunwin.com/default.aspx?page=94&book=9781742378145

I know you're just trying to stir the pot when you say that anyone could have coached the Pies to the premiership....

No they played for each other because so many were good mates, and as they got better and smelt successmthey worked harder and enjoyed the successes together. Mick was the beneficiary, but it could have been anyone with half a football brain. Easy to be liking the coach when you're doing well but it wasn't because of mick.
His record as a coach is fairly average if you look at win loss percentage, and given the amount of years coaching collingwood he was bound to win one eventually.

 

[MarkT2]

No man means no man.

I do see where you're coming from, but what do you and I know about the reasons for Beams, Lumumba and Thomas leaving? What do we really know about the inner sanctum? As far as I'm aware, Beams wanted out for 'family reasons', Lumumba didn't get along with Buckley, Thomas wanted to be reunited with Mick and earn more money (can't blame him), Buckley couldn't see a place for Didak, Jolly and Krakouer, add Shaw to that list too but we did bring in Taylor Adams. So if i'm not mistaken, that makes one guy who left purely because he didn't get along with Nathan.

As I have said many times on here, in isolation it all makes sense. In combination the odds don't stack up. We have probably had more quality players leave Collingwood in 3 years than in the preceding decade and that is at a time when we had just finished 1st & 2nd and followed with a PF. The last high quality player I recall off the top that we lost was Paul Williams - ironically.

We don't know much for sure. We didn't much about Footscray's issues for sure either.
It's all very well to blame the players but like you and I if we don't like where we work we move. If that happens in numbers it isn't the staff it's the employer. All I asked was what is the tipping point for you? 1 more, 10 more or never?

 

[MarkT2]

No they played for each other because so many were good mates, and as they got better and smelt successmthey worked harder and enjoyed the successes together. Mick was the beneficiary, but it could have been anyone with half a football brain. Easy to be liking the coach when you're doing well but it wasn't because of mick.
His record as a coach is fairly average if you look at win loss percentage, and given the amount of years coaching collingwood he was bound to win one eventually.

That may be true in part although it is impossible to be entirely true. That is not the issue though. The whole MM v Buckley debate is a furphy. IMO neither are probably the right person for us now and good Mick was or wasn't is relevant to the debate about whether he should have got another year or two not whether Buckley should be the coach now. The latter is the real issue for our club. To me that has to be answered this year by results. Not so much where we finish but on and off field cohesion and buy in. It is the job of those in charge to actively monitor measure and judge that. That is their absolute priority.