Why we will win the premiership in 2015

[MarkT2]

Speaks 15 times better than Buckley. When he talks you listen. Thats even just watching a simple video grab. Buckley to me comes across uninspiring when he talks. The smirk on his face when Bucks talks I just can't take him seriously. That's just me so I don't know what the players are thinking..

I don't think that is relevant. What is relevant is whether they subscribe to his ways. The fear I have is that if we are trying to build a list that does it might take 20 years to stumble across enough players of enough quality that do. There aren't many Buckley's in footy. "This is Buckley's list" was last years year's mantra but it clearly wasn't then - is it now?

 

[jmac70]

Speaks 15 times better than Buckley. When he talks you listen. Thats even just watching a simple video grab. Buckley to me comes across uninspiring when he talks. The smirk on his face when Bucks talks I just can't take him seriously. That's just me so I don't know what the players are thinking..

It is interesting that you have formed such strong opinions about two people who you have never spoken to....

 

[BEEG]

Not in the next 3 years 2018 is my guess

 

[THATSGOLD]

It is interesting that you have formed such strong opinions about two people who you have never spoken to....

Do you need to speak personally to them to form an opinion? You form opinions based on what you see and the results that follow.

 

[jmac70]

Do you need to speak personally to them to form an opinion? You form opinions based on what you see and the results that follow.

You have formed the opinion that Tapping is 15 times a better speaker than Buckley based on watching some video footage of him. The scary thing is that you think this is rational.

 

[noideaatall]

That may be true in part although it is impossible to be entirely true. That is not the issue though. The whole MM v Buckley debate is a furphy. IMO neither are probably the right person for us now and good Mick was or wasn't is relevant to the debate about whether he should have got another year or two not whether Buckley should be the coach now. The latter is the real issue for our club. To me that has to be answered this year by results. Not so much where we finish but on and off field cohesion and buy in. It is the job of those in charge to actively monitor measure and judge that. That is their absolute priority.

Good post, totally agree the Bucks/MM stuff is completely irrelvant, as are expectations of what we think might/could/should have been. Agree with the on and off field cohesion but how is that judged? Surely if things we really bad internally the club wouldn't have extended his contract in a hurry. I suspect if there is an issue it is far more subtle and about the difference between players/team working at 98% vs 100%. Not sure if it is something supporters can judge.

 

[MarkT2]

Agree with the on and off field cohesion but how is that judged?

That's the job of those paid a lot of money to make these decisions. Footscray made the call albeit too late. Saints made it the previous year. Look at the difference at Port. Adelaide made the call. If you are inside the club charged with these responsibilities you can and must make the judgements.

Surely if things we really bad internally the club wouldn't have extended his contract in a hurry.

You would hope so but I have no confidence myself.

I suspect if there is an issue it is far more subtle and about the difference between players/team working at 98% vs 100%. Not sure if it is something supporters can judge.

If that is all it was we'd have lost less players. We didn't push Shaw out over 2% and Thomas, O'Brien or Beams didn't leave over 2%.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

And look at the difference at StKilda.. Wait. There is no difference. Its just the vibe.

Or Carlton for that matter.

 

[Laurie Holden]

Respect is a pretty handy first step though.

Look, there's no doubt that Mick Malthouse is a great coach. You're right, he had the squad of 2010/2011 eating out of his hand. But so did Ross Lyon in 2009/10/11. Clubs evolve, personnel changes, all good things come to an end. Whilst I agree that our good thing came to an end prematurely, the succession plan was in place before any grand final appearances. What would we all be saying today if we finished outside the 8 in 2010/11? We'd be saying "good riddance Mick is gone", "12 seasons as coach and no premierships, Mick was overrated anyway." It was a win/loss situation either way. Win a flag, lose a coach or miss out on a flag and get a new coach with new philosophies. It just so happens that we got the ultimate glory and the changes went ahead.

Nathan Buckley has always had Collingwood's best interest at heart all through his coaching and playing days. He is a competitive beast and very intellectual. People need to start living in the present and stop comparing him to Mick. He has his own style, and a list he has built. No man is bigger than the cause, so if guys like Daisy, Harry and Beams want to go, then i'll gladly show them the door. If it's all over a struggling relationship, then I don't want them at our club.

I also wonder how many of the players were 'Micks boys' and that he didn't keep them in check enough. Look at the playing culture he left when he finished at the Eagles (yes WA had/has massive drug problems too) then Pies and even this year with some of the peanuts down at Blues.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Do you need to speak personally to them to form an opinion? You form opinions based on what you see and the results that follow.

I've formed an opinion but you really don't want to know what it is TG!

 

[THATSGOLD]

You have formed the opinion that Tapping is 15 times a better speaker than Buckley based on watching some video footage of him. The scary thing is that you think this is rational.

And VFL speeches and various other media posted around especially on the Collingwood FC website.

 

[MarkT2]

And look at the difference at StKilda.. Wait. There is no difference. Its just the vibe.

Or Carlton for that matter.

No vibe = no flag. It is one of the imperatives. We had it and now we don't.

The point wasn't about whether they made the right replacement choice though it was about recognition of a need and acting on it. Their list build battle is well and truly ahead of them though. They stared behind us and had more age driven imperative but their course changed because their coach left unexpectedly. I suspect it would be quite different now had they resigned Lyon when they had the chance.

As for Carlton, they have been a rubbish club for all of this century. Even now they board wants to control who can stand. Then again, at least they want to do it overtly.

 

[Laurie Holden]

No vibe = no flag. It is one of the imperatives. We had it and now we don't.

The point wasn't about whether they made the right replacement choice though it was about recognition of a need and acting on it. Their list build battle is well and truly ahead of them though. They stared behind us and had more age driven imperative but their course changed because their coach left unexpectedly. I suspect it would be quite different now had they resigned Lyon when they had the chance.

As for Carlton, they have been a rubbish club for all of this century. Even now they board wants to control who can stand. Then again, at least they want to do it overtly.

They've been rubbish since losing draft picks after the salary cap crap. Essendrugs, look into your future!

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Victoria Police weren't kidding about the ice epidemic were they?

 

[jmac70]

Do you need to speak personally to them to form an opinion? You form opinions based on what you see and the results that follow.

It helps if you don't want your opinions to be rubbish.

 

[MarkT2]

They've been rubbish since losing draft picks after the salary cap crap. Essendrugs, look into your future!

Off topic but the salary cap penalties are massively over stated. They lost picks which they then got in the following years. They had plenty of early picks in the end. They have just been poorly run. Their list was crap when they lost the picks because they couldn't draft and when they got the picks they drafted consensus early picks and got little return on later picks. That's just drafting - they have been poorly run in every aspect for 20 years.

 

[Laurie Holden]

Off topic but the salary cap penalties are massively over stated. They lost picks which they then got in the following years. They had plenty of early picks in the end. They have just been poorly run. Their list was crap when they lost the picks because they couldn't draft and when they got the picks they drafted consensus early picks and got little return on later picks. That's just drafting - they have been poorly run in every aspect for 20 years.

Very valid points and yes I agree.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Off topic but the salary cap penalties are massively over stated. They lost picks which they then got in the following years. They had plenty of early picks in the end. They have just been poorly run. Their list was crap when they lost the picks because they couldn't draft and when they got the picks they drafted consensus early picks and got little return on later picks. That's just drafting - they have been poorly run in every aspect for 20 years.

How beautiful has it been to witness & long may they rot in their own filth!

 

[noideaatall]

That's the job of those paid a lot of money to make these decisions. Footscray made the call albeit too late. Saints made it the previous year. Look at the difference at Port. Adelaide made the call. If you are inside the club charged with these responsibilities you can and must make the judgements.
You would hope so but I have no confidence myself.If that is all it was we'd have lost less players. We didn't push Shaw out over 2% and Thomas, O'Brien or Beams didn't leave over 2%.

Thanks for your reply. You seem to be from the 'bucks is the problem' camp whereas I am a 'swinging voter' having shifted from 'pro bucks'. I don't have the knowledge to form a strong opinion. I agree the club has the responsibility to make the judgement, not sure if they have got it wrong yet. That is a big call but I have seen them get it wrong before. What leaves you with 'no confidence'? If you are right then maybe its time for some changes to the board?

For each of the players mentioned there are explanations for their departure that don't centre entirely on Bucks. Is it possible that the club figures Bucks is the best person to lead the group through the next two years - not realistic premiership contenders during that time IMO. The T Shaw period seemed a total disaster but did it actually set the ground work for 2002/3 which were pertty good tilts at a flag? Changing coach now may be more destabilising than two years hence.

 

[MarkT2]

What leaves you with 'no confidence'? If you are right then maybe its time for some changes to the board?

Big topic in itself. Lets just say members haven't cast a vote this century.

For each of the players mentioned there are explanations for their departure that don't centre entirely on Bucks. Is it possible that the club figures Bucks is the best person to lead the group through the next two years - not realistic premiership contenders during that time IMO. The T Shaw period seemed a total disaster but did it actually set the ground work for 2002/3 which were pertty good tilts at a flag? Changing coach now may be more destabilising than two years hence.

As I have said individually it is easy to justify pretty much everything but nothing happens in a vacuum. Beams didn't leave because Shaw was sacked but his manager has said it was part of his "issue". It's more what drives the decision to exit Shaw IMO (yes just my opinion).

 

[TazHawk15]

What about back2back?

What about it?

 

[Laurie Holden]

There's nothing wrong with the board or running of the club. We are the envy of all sporting clubs in the nation. It's been well documented that they'll give Buckley until 2017 and think we should see improvement in 2016 and then be back amongst it in 2017 (2015 about the same as this year). Let's keep our club stable and work towards the next tilt.

Lets remember we were all calling for MM's head when we bottomed out after the 2002-2003 GF's but in 2005-2006 we got 4 top ten draft picks that were all part of our 2010 flag.

Perennial losers like the Dees and dogs continue to sack coaches and now look how well they're going. That's on the back of countless high draft picks.

 

[100volt1]

If we win the premiership next season i will go to the intersection of napier street in essendon and i will light a fire cracker up my ass while being filmed in a collingwood guernsey! (don't hold me to it)

 

[MarkT2]

There's nothing wrong with the board or running of the club. We are the envy of all sporting clubs in the nation.

Nothing? This is what worries me at times. People just take for granted that the board does a great job and are unchallengeable because we make a lot of money. We are not the benchmark we just have the most supporters and the most haters. Hawthorn for what it is worth are the benchmark.

Yes a lot has been done right over the last 10-15 years. But we have a board containing barely any voted representatives. We have had appointments to the board like Brad Cooper. Would anyone have voted Sally Capp onto the board? We lost $12m on the pubs. That's before you consider how we went from the youngest premiership side in decades to where we are now with (IMO) a very premature rebuild which has become a question of necessity.

Does the good outweigh the bad? Perhaps so but lets not kid ourselves there have not been some real mistakes made.

 

[ClaytonM]

That's the job of those paid a lot of money to make these decisions. Footscray made the call albeit too late. Saints made it the previous year. Look at the difference at Port. Adelaide made the call. If you are inside the club charged with these responsibilities you can and must make the judgements.
You would hope so but I have no confidence myself.If that is all it was we'd have lost less players. We didn't push Shaw out over 2% and Thomas, O'Brien or Beams didn't leave over 2%.

It all depends on what the right decision is. The easy decision is to sack the coach when things are not meeting supporter expectations. The difficult decision is to back the coach. The Cats backed Bomber and two (+1) flags later they were proven right.

Clubs that regularly turn over their coaches are rarely successful. If you look at all of the premiership winners since 2007 they have had relatively stable coaching appointments. Two have managed transitions from one coach to another and still achieved the ultimate success. Buckley may not be the right person for the job but at this stage I think the damage that sacking Buckley would cause far outweighs the benefits.

The club is undertaking a rebuild. From what I have seen Buckley seems to be a good fit to undertake that role. Whether he is the right person as we move from this position to genuine contention is yet to be seen. But I see no benefit at this point in time sacking the coach. Not sure this would serve the young playing group well.