- May 6, 2012
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Opinion Why we're s**t...
- Thread starter ThePuppetMaster
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Wonaeamirri33
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Absolutely right mate. This point really does deserve reinforcement I reckon.
I remember Sydney during the late 80s/early 90s very well. Easily the most noteworthy of their various debacles over that time happened in 1993, in Round 8, when they were thumped by the Bears to the tune of 162 points.
To put this in proper context, the Bears finished third-last that season, with 4 wins from 20 games.
The same Bears team who scored 33 goals that day, 19 in the first half, while holding Sydney goalless until the third quarter.
THAT is how bad Sydney were.
Sir Hugh Percy
BigFooty Aristocrat
I remember it well also, though not fondly exactly. There was a comp held by the Monash Uni paper to guess how many games the Swans losing streak would get to before they won a game. I merely had to look at a fixture and see when they were playing Melbourne. If they had lost to the Dees, that would make it 27 losses in row, so I entered the comp saying the streak would be 26 games. Sure enough, the Swans gave us a hiding and I collected a slab of Melbourne Bitter (ironing, I know) for winning the comp. Melbourne have barely changed at all while the Swans have two premierships.
Not sure if serious .... We were a competitive side against easy-beats, and interstate sides travelling to the MCG. We couldn't beat anyone at Etihad, and except for a fluke against Essendon when they were performing badly - the exception that proves the rule - we didn't beat ANY side that finished in the 8, and were easily beaten by most of them.
We were not even close to being consistently competitive against any of the decent sides, and the root of our problems now goes back to the Bailey/Bogdan years.
For all that, IMHO it wasn't entirely Bailey's fault, and it's unfortunate for him that he was surrounded by an under-performing and under-resourced FD.
wowlace
Norm Smith Medallist
I don't know why we are so s**t. All I know is we shouldn't be. We played well for a half of football against a top 8 possibly top 4 team. The Weagles were not playing that badly. This team has shown they are capable RIGHT NOW. They just need some belief and desire to work for their mates. I would love to see an all time great to spend the rest of the year at the club and put a rocket up them in a positive way of course.
- May 6, 2012
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Ok, let's just forget that we pushed the premiers of 2010 to a 1 point loss (we got screwed that day) and a draw.
Let's also forget we beat the Lions who were 4-0 by 50 points. But there no good anymore, so it doesn't count? Well then, how about our annihilation of Sydney and Adelaide, who were premiers and top four respectively 2 years later. The interstate theory is crap, we still beat them, doesn't matter where, an 80 point win is an 80 point win. Hell we gave Paul Roos his biggest losing margin in the history of his coaching tenure. Not to mention we also lost by 3 goals in a really brave effort to the Hawks, who when the rain set in were able to run over the top of us.
Sylvia Saint
Cancelled
Yep and under Neeld even the easy-beats take us to the cleaners. Hell, most people will probably be tipping GWS this week.
As I have said Bailey was not the answer, but Neeld has taken a flaky team and turn them into the worst side in 20 years. And yet people are still defending him?? What exactly has he done since getting here to give you so much faith??
Black Dynamite
Team Captain
Don't necessarily think people are defending him per se but who will replace him and will we be better off? Can we afford another payout? Are we just changing for changes sake? Will the playing group respond to another coach after burning both Neeld and Bailey?
There are many other questions the club need to ask before they pull the trigger because if they do just to placate the mob then it is for the wrong reasons.
Most coaches will struggle at Melbourne because the bulk of our list simply don't seem to have enough c#$% in them to compete at this level and don't hurt enough when they lose.
Hey guys, I don't like writing on other teams boards because it almost always taken the wrong way but as my clubs in the same/worse position with list development I feel as though I'll be heard out. I don't have any answers and I'm just spitballing here.
I've recently been going over some data for the past 4 years from all clubs and have noticed that the Dee's average age/average games played tends to stay low especially compared to the majority of the comp. In theory a team that's young gets more experienced every year as the new brigade get games under their belt and then you get to a point when your best 22 is around the 100 average games mark with or without injuries and you seem to be competitive against anyone and play finals.
Now obviously there is no point in having a bunch of a duds that average 100 games but if a player can get to 100+ games they've survived 5+ years of culling and most of the time....but not always...they deserve to be there..unless they're being culled by another AFL team and brought in to yours.
I don't remember the ins and outs of the Melbourne players over the past 4 years but whoever has come and gone is the reason the average games played stays so low. Of course there can be many reasons why such as uncontrollable events like losing Scully or young guys getting delisted after a few season because they simply aren't going to make it anywhere.
From a statistical point of view, the loss of Bate, Moloney, Petterd, Scully, Rivers, Green and Maric have hurt on paper. I am by no means saying these guys are good players or should be playing now and I know a lot of these losses have been out of Melbourne's hands from Scully to Green and everyone inbetween.
For what it's worth, I think Melbourne are further along the track than most consider. Yea, this season might be rough again but there is a massive chunk of young guys getting games under their belt..and they're good young guys too who already had a few seasons of experience.
I've recently been going over some data for the past 4 years from all clubs and have noticed that the Dee's average age/average games played tends to stay low especially compared to the majority of the comp. In theory a team that's young gets more experienced every year as the new brigade get games under their belt and then you get to a point when your best 22 is around the 100 average games mark with or without injuries and you seem to be competitive against anyone and play finals.
Now obviously there is no point in having a bunch of a duds that average 100 games but if a player can get to 100+ games they've survived 5+ years of culling and most of the time....but not always...they deserve to be there..unless they're being culled by another AFL team and brought in to yours.
I don't remember the ins and outs of the Melbourne players over the past 4 years but whoever has come and gone is the reason the average games played stays so low. Of course there can be many reasons why such as uncontrollable events like losing Scully or young guys getting delisted after a few season because they simply aren't going to make it anywhere.
From a statistical point of view, the loss of Bate, Moloney, Petterd, Scully, Rivers, Green and Maric have hurt on paper. I am by no means saying these guys are good players or should be playing now and I know a lot of these losses have been out of Melbourne's hands from Scully to Green and everyone inbetween.
For what it's worth, I think Melbourne are further along the track than most consider. Yea, this season might be rough again but there is a massive chunk of young guys getting games under their belt..and they're good young guys too who already had a few seasons of experience.
rhaz
Cancelled
- Jun 30, 2008
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The AFL ladder predictor is back up and I just had a play around with the next few rounds.
By Round 8 we will have played both GWS and GC, both very good chances of getting wins.
The Saints meanwhile have the Bombers, Sydney, Collingwood and Carlton.
Reasonable chance the Sainters could lose all 4 of those, and if we managed to beat GWS and GC in that time, we'd go above them on the ladder (and possibly be above both GC and GWS too). This would surely take a whole heap of pressure off us and direct it the Saints way. Even temporary relief is better than none. It's only a couple of wins but i'd take that. Just wanna see our boys out of the media.
By Round 8 we will have played both GWS and GC, both very good chances of getting wins.
The Saints meanwhile have the Bombers, Sydney, Collingwood and Carlton.
Reasonable chance the Sainters could lose all 4 of those, and if we managed to beat GWS and GC in that time, we'd go above them on the ladder (and possibly be above both GC and GWS too). This would surely take a whole heap of pressure off us and direct it the Saints way. Even temporary relief is better than none. It's only a couple of wins but i'd take that. Just wanna see our boys out of the media.
Bluelegs
Celebrating what we're good at
We did, however draw with sydney.
ThePuppetMaster
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- #38
We drew against Sydney, drew against Collingwood, lost by 1 point to Collingwood, lost by 4 to the Dogs (when they were top four)...
Topkent
Confirmed ITK Drafting King
We also got belted by numerous sides
ThePuppetMaster
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Sure, but we had the youngest list in the comp - sacking Bailey was a knee-jerk decision... you know what I did yesterday?
I watched a couple of 2011 matches, and let me tell you - our young players were looking a lot better (first quarter vs WCE in 2011).
Watts was playing with intensity (tackling, chasing, contesting), and having an impact with few touches (and he was looking big as well - I swear he's lost ridiculous amounts of weight and strength under Neeld, especially in his legs).
It shits me to tears that Mark Neeld came out and said a 20 year old KPF was under-performing the moment he came on board.
Trengove was looking quick and clean on the inside, Tapscott was playing off half back well.
Garland and Frawley were playing with purpose.
Sylvia Saint
Cancelled
I don't agree that Bailey was a knee-jerk decision, although the rest of your post is spot on. The teams of 2010-2011 were flawed and inconsistent, but they were good to watch and occasionally brilliant. Like most optimistic fans I saw 2012 and 2013 as the years we'd start pushing for finals, and now look at us.
Neeld has taken this club so far backwards and is simply covering his tracks by claiming a "rebuild of a rebuild" like I said earlier in the thread. It honestly staggers me that some people are still defending him.
Watts is a pea heart and having a horrible year but Neeld's decision to sub him off in the Essendon game reminded me of when that a-hole teacher singles out the kid he doesn't like in his class and humiliates him in front of the rest.
Topkent
Confirmed ITK Drafting King
Mate I understand your point and the games against collingwood were the most entertaining matches melb has played in years ,
But there's 2 ways to look at the 2011 yr, i prefer to look at the fact that even though we did win those games we were also horrible in other games to the point where we were non competitive , there were serious floors an losing by 186 in a professional era is not good enough ( for whatever reason that was )
Maybe your right about neeld and maybe blokes like watts jamar and frawley don't wanna play for him I don't know but I think moving bailey on was the right decision
ThePuppetMaster
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The more I think about it - the more I come to this line of thinking...
Why wasn't Bailey given a chance to have the resources that Neeld currently has? Why wasn't Bailey given a mentor like Neil Craig to help him add a defensive element to his game plan? Why wasn't he given the funds to go get a high performance manager with the credentials of Misson?
It doesn't make any sense - we had a fantastic year in 2010, we weren't uncompetitive often...
Then Schwab pounces and kicks Junior, Miller, Bruce to the curb - we stagnate in 2011, while our youngsters continue to improve.
Bailey's sacking reeks of Schwab's desperation to save his job and find a scape goat for his divisive actions.
It was the decision of a weak football club, a knee-jerk reaction to a situation that was created by the executive by supporting Schwab's purge of our experienced leaders with strong work ethics.
rhaz
Cancelled
- Jun 30, 2008
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I am the only one who feels there were huge differences between 2010 and 2011? Like... 2010 was a good year, 2011 was not. Just feels like a few people are blending them into one year
2010 was the year with the Collingwood games and the WB "pink umpires" game. We also nearly came back from 40 points down at half time down to roll Fremantle, at Subiaco. If we won just 1 of those 4 games, and didn't have a few silly losses (WC, NM @ The MCG), we really would've pushed for finals that year.
In 2011 we had nearly 400 more points kicked on us than in 2010, and that included 2 games against the Gold Coast.
2010 was the year with the Collingwood games and the WB "pink umpires" game. We also nearly came back from 40 points down at half time down to roll Fremantle, at Subiaco. If we won just 1 of those 4 games, and didn't have a few silly losses (WC, NM @ The MCG), we really would've pushed for finals that year.
In 2011 we had nearly 400 more points kicked on us than in 2010, and that included 2 games against the Gold Coast.
Wait what year was it that you belted us by 14 goals?
ThePuppetMaster
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In any event - 2011>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2012 and 2013
2011 was not a good year, but our young players were still taking positive steps at the very least - Trengove 5th and Watts 9th in the BnF, etc.
ThePuppetMaster
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- #49
2010 - I was mixing our results over the last two years under Bailey.
- May 6, 2012
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I stand by the fact that under Bailey,we simply needed to narrow our best performances from our worst, and we would've become a decent side. Now, the lengths you go, to actually achieve this isn't so simple, but it's unfortunate that the big loss against Geelong, where Bailey essentially sat there, to prove a point in fact ended his reign as coach.
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