Opinion Why we're shit...

[Captain Jack]

Let's go easy on calling 2010-11 "brilliant" and "fantastic" seasons... Some are looking through rose-coloured glasses here to justify their anti-Neeld point. As others have said, we showed some great signs, but in between we were the flakiest and least convincing team going around.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

I stand by the fact that under Bailey,we simply needed to narrow our best performances from our worst, and we would've become a decent side. Now, the lengths you go, to actually achieve this isn't so simple, but it's unfortunate that the big loss against Geelong, where Bailey essentially sat there, to prove a point in fact ended his reign as coach.

I disagree based on the fact that Bailey had NFI how to add some decent defensive coaching to his repertoire. We looked terrific when we were on the attack but I can still recall plenty of games where I was left angry at the amount of times we were smashed on the rebound and we only ever seemed to run one way. He had 4 years at the club and nothing changed in that regard. He got us to play a brand of football that allowed us to be in games for longer, and even win a few, but we were never actually going to get anywhere meaningful with it.

Even in your post you admit that we would have been a "decent" side - but we would never have been close to a premiership side.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I disagree based on the fact that Bailey had NFI how to add some decent defensive coaching to his repertoire. We looked terrific when we were on the attack but I can still recall plenty of games where I was left angry at the amount of times we were smashed on the rebound and we only ever seemed to run one way. He had 4 years at the club and nothing changed in that regard. He got us to play a brand of football that allowed us to be in games for longer, and even win a few, but we were never actually going to get anywhere meaningful with it.

Even in your post you admit that we would have been a "decent" side - but we would never have been close to a premiership side.

That's just the thing though - we had one season (2010) where we held up well defensively in the main, and against good sides like Collingwood and the Dogs.

We had one season where we were put to the sword by strong teams (2011), Bailey was never given the chance to implement defensive structures - he sure couldn't do it during the season for risk of confusing the players.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

That's just the thing though - we had one season (2010) where we held up well defensively in the main, and against good sides like Collingwood and the Dogs.

We had one season where we were put to the sword by strong teams (2011), Bailey was never given the chance to implement defensive structures - he sure couldn't do it during the season for risk of confusing the players.

So we were okay defensively in 2010 and then regressed totally in 2011?

Doesn't look much better from my perspective.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

So we were okay defensively in 2010 and then regressed totally in 2011?

Doesn't look much better from my perspective.

Basically, yes.

A good football club would have said; yep, we can play - we have some skillful players and we need to improve their defensive game significantly - that's what North Melbourne did, they got belted around just as much as us (bar 186) against the strong teams 100+ losses to Collingwood and Hawthorn.

But we sacked the coach and tried to reverse the game plan.

It's irrelevant now.

Neeld should be given time to turn us around, he certainly has some good ideas - whether they can be implemented or not is the question.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Basically, yes.

A good football club would have said; yep, we can play - we have some skillful players and we need to improve their defensive game significantly - that's what North Melbourne did, they got belted around just as much as us (bar 186) against the strong teams 100+ losses to Collingwood and Hawthorn.

But we sacked the coach and tried to reverse the game plan.

It's irrelevant now.

Neeld should be given time to turn us around, he certainly has some good ideas - whether they can be implemented or not is the question.

It's irrelevant now, true, but the above doesn't back Bailey up. He coached us for the majority of 2011 after we had looked good in 2010 and we, as a club, regressed. He had the opportunity to implement a defensive strategy, as evidenced by 2010, but it was either a fluke or he tried to do something totally different and we went backwards. That's his fault IMO.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

It's irrelevant now, true, but the above doesn't back Bailey up. He coached us for the majority of 2011 after we had looked good in 2010 and we, as a club, regressed. He had the opportunity to implement a defensive strategy, as evidenced by 2010, but it was either a fluke or he tried to do something totally different and we went backwards. That's his fault IMO.

Sure, I think it's simpler then that though.

I think clubs started to take us more seriously after 2010 and we didn't have a Plan B.

Sure, a bad look for Bailey - but we could have learned from that rather then give up, which is where I think Schwab comes in to sell Bailey out to save himself (all opinion, granted).

 

[RedLegs#5]

You have to give Neeld and the list until the end of the season. I'd personally give him all of next year as well. He needs another pre-season with this team. I do think some of our assistant coaches are sub par and need some upgrading (get some experienced heads like chocco or sheedy in some capacity, or if we can, someone like Ling would be amazing), but we were ALWAYS going to be terrible this year. It's a complete rebuild. Unless Paul Roos says he'll coach us next year, give Neeld a shot.

P.S. I am still very pissed off Neeld didn't upgrade Magner from the Rookie list. That I have no time for.

 

[Black Dynamite]

You have to give Neeld and the list until the end of the season. I'd personally give him all of next year as well. He needs another pre-season with this team. I do think some of our assistant coaches are sub par and need some upgrading (get some experienced heads like chocco or sheedy in some capacity, or if we can, someone like Ling would be amazing), but we were ALWAYS going to be terrible this year. It's a complete rebuild. Unless Paul Roos says he'll coach us next year, give Neeld a shot.

P.S. I am still very pissed off Neeld didn't upgrade Magner from the Rookie list. That I have no time for.

Don't know that would be entirely Neelds call, certainly would have a large say but surely list management is not all his fault, agree Magner would be handy but not the difference between competitive and 100 point beatings.

 

[Cannon82]

Then Schwab pounces and kicks Junior, Miller, Bruce to the curb - we stagnate in 2011, while our youngsters continue to improve.

Junior was a mistake. Miller not really. Bruce was just about done, unfortunately. From memory, we offered him a one year deal and the Hawks offered him two. He didn't play much for them and when he did, he struggled to have an impact. Reminded me of Yze's last bit part season - the silky skills were gone and he just couldn't get the body to do the things it used to do.

 

[BETON5]

We are not shit we are just underperforming. We will come good very son I hope

 

[CowboyFromHell]

We are not shit we are just underperforming. We will come good very son I hope

Interesting take. I would have thought that being beaten by around 300 points in 3 rounds means we're pretty shit.

 

[Black Dynamite]

Have discovered another reason why we may be shit - see Demons involved in drugs scandal thread.
Its not the drugs but the way we have handled it, another example of amateur hour by the administration.

 

[Big_Ed]

It's irrelevant now, true, but the above doesn't back Bailey up. He coached us for the majority of 2011 after we had looked good in 2010 and we, as a club, regressed. He had the opportunity to implement a defensive strategy, as evidenced by 2010, but it was either a fluke or he tried to do something totally different and we went backwards. That's his fault IMO.

Yeah, it was when the forward press was in vogue too (Mick's Pies, 2010 Premiers). Almost every club in the league adopted a forward press that year, with varying degrees of success. We were still trying rebound off half-back footy, and it was being torn apart by every club that put on a decent amount of forward pressure.

I remember we had a forward press going in our first game against the Tiges that year, and had a big win over them. Petterd had like, 14 tackles or something. We never did that again.

2011 was a frustrating year.

 

[PureFooty]

S

I disagree based on the fact that Bailey had NFI how to add some decent defensive coaching to his repertoire. We looked terrific when we were on the attack but I can still recall plenty of games where I was left angry at the amount of times we were smashed on the rebound and we only ever seemed to run one way. He had 4 years at the club and nothing changed in that regard. He got us to play a brand of football that allowed us to be in games for longer, and even win a few, but we were never actually going to get anywhere meaningful with it.

Even in your post you admit that we would have been a "decent" side - but we would never have been close to a premiership side.

So exactly which part do you disagree with?

 

[jhong]

Yeah, it was when the forward press was in vogue too (Mick's Pies, 2010 Premiers). Almost every club in the league adopted a forward press that year, with varying degrees of success. We were still trying rebound off half-back footy, and it was being torn apart by every club that put on a decent amount of forward pressure.

I remember we had a forward press going in our first game against the Tiges that year, and had a big win over them. Petterd had like, 14 tackles or something. We never did that again.

2011 was a frustrating year.

This .

 

[richskee]

If we continue to play like this no doubt there will be a mass exodus of players. Our club is pathetically run, our development and handling of our young players is the worst in the comp. I couldn't name 1 reason why you would want to play for Melbourne at the moment.

I used to love this Club and Game, now I'm just numb to it. Over it

 

[Topkent]

Remember the days when we used to lose by just 20-30 points.... Sighhhhhh

 

[wowlace]

For me it's obvious that the club is a shambles. From the top to the bottom. I understand it makes it difficult for the players. But I would like to see them show some professional pride in their own work. Show some respect to us - the members who have supported them through lose after lose. We have sat in the rain watching flogging after flogging. Only recently have we turned on them, only because the frustration has finally boiled over.

I ask the players, to disregard the distractions and just go hard on the field like they did in the first half against the WCE. Take pride in their own work and give us something to be proud about.

 

[Wonaeamirri33]

now I'm just numb...

Don't relate, retaliate. Be great. Don't be Matty Bate...

 

[Topkent]

Wasn't sure were to put this but here goes

Jack grimes is a horrible midfielder, I've been saying it for a long time and people continue to look through rise coloured glasses at him
He lacks composure, he is indesicive, he he not great inside at feeding the ball out , and is not great outside as his foot skill are average at best
His continual poor kicking gets overlooked , In the west coast game he was in the back pocket an tried cantering to McDonald under no pressure and missed him from 30m away, he Ran backwards like a deer in headlights and got mowed down in the first leading to a le cras goal.. This is supposed to be our captain

However , when played across the half back flank he is a remarkably better player , he oozes leadership and takes on responsibility ... Please mark neeld please play him in the back line for the sake of our midfield and get mckenzie an magner back in there

 

[Tiger08]

My two cents.. As I said in this Tigers thread in 2010.. it's darkest before the dawn.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hardwick-i-feel-sorry-for-him.693355/#post-17406495

I'd seen my team apparently bottom out in 2004, 2007 and 2010. We'd been smashed for the first 6 games and Sam Newman was saying we wouldn't win a game for 3 years. The media were talking about given us special assistance draft picks as well.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/richmond-plans-for-long-haul-20100505-uamo.html?skin=text-only

This really doesn't seem too long ago and at that point, we already had Cotchin, Deledio, Martin and Riewoldt on our list. Don't get me wrong.. we're not world-beaters yet either! But there's one reason why we seem to have actually improved this time. His name is Brendan Gale.

You need someone off the field to get the club's finances in order so you can properly fund your footy department and provide some stability. I never really understood how important that was until the last couple of years. I always just blamed our poor drafting. Richard Tambling had all the talent in the world but we just couldn't afford to develop him. Sadly for him, he probably would have been a star at Hawthorn. Selling those home games to Queensland was part of changing that process for us. That money, combined with a stable couple of years after Gale came in, helped attract guys like Mark Williams and Ross Smith. That's where our improvement came from. Not because Jordan McMahon kicked that goal and we ended up with Dustin Martin, rather than Jack Trengove.

Melbourne supporters are barking up the wrong tree blaming the current coach - or even the current players. There's no question you've already got enough talent on the list. You need to sort out your off-field stuff first. If you don't, you can have all the top picks in the world, and they'll all turn out to be duds.

 

[Crafted]

it's darkest before the dawn.

well it's been pretty ****ing dark for a while.

not angry at you mate I just don't understand why people say that

 

[Black Dynamite]

My two cents.. As I said in this Tigers thread in 2010.. it's darkest before the dawn.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/hardwick-i-feel-sorry-for-him.693355/#post-17406495

I'd seen my team apparently bottom out in 2004, 2007 and 2010. We'd been smashed for the first 6 games and Sam Newman was saying we wouldn't win a game for 3 years. The media were talking about given us special assistance draft picks as well.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/richmond-plans-for-long-haul-20100505-uamo.html?skin=text-only

This really doesn't seem too long ago and at that point, we already had Cotchin, Deledio, Martin and Riewoldt on our list. Don't get me wrong.. we're not world-beaters yet either! But there's one reason why we seem to have actually improved this time. His name is Brendan Gale.

You need someone off the field to get the club's finances in order so you can properly fund your footy department and provide some stability. I never really understood how important that was until the last couple of years. I always just blamed our poor drafting. Richard Tambling had all the talent in the world but we just couldn't afford to develop him. Sadly for him, he probably would have been a star at Hawthorn. Selling those home games to Queensland was part of changing that process for us. That money, combined with a stable couple of years after Gale came in, helped attract guys like Mark Williams and Ross Smith. That's where our improvement came from. Not because Jordan McMahon kicked that goal and we ended up with Dustin Martin, rather than Jack Trengove.

Melbourne supporters are barking up the wrong tree blaming the current coach - or even the current players. There's no question you've already got enough talent on the list. You need to sort out your off-field stuff first. If you don't, you can have all the top picks in the world, and they'll all turn out to be duds.

This is something I've thought for a while, until we get ourselves better organised off field we will never get better on field. May sound simplistic but looking around the league the one thing successful clubs enjoy is a settled off field who set standards that the whole club follows and clubs who have stepped up e.g. Richmond have managed to do this and the turn around is there for all to see. Hardwick is no magician, he has turned over the list and bought in some hardness but everything has really blossomed after getting off field settled.
How does this relate to MFC? At the moment I believe most of our ills are emanating from poor decisions being made at an executive level over a long period and no matter who we have coaching, under those circumstances, they are doomed to failure. I understand the torch and pitchfork mob may not like it but changing Neeld will accomplish nothing just like Daniher to Bailey and Bailey to Neeld really accomplished nothing. I actually think Mark Neeld could be an excellent coach but under the current circumstances, with the way we lurch from one drama to the next, he will never be given the environment to do so.

 

[demonsize]

Its the same deal across every business/ company and sporting club, if the administration/management is not functioning correctly it flows down to the rest of the business, sadly the MFC has massive problems with all areas of its administration, this has been proven once again with the latest drug dramas.
I have loved this club with a passion for 35 years but they are making it very hard to continue, we just lurch from one disaster to another, it just makes you wonder just what is coming next!
I will be there tomorrow to cheer on the team i love but i just dont have the same passion i once had.
Just sad really.