Roast Why Why Why?

[Kapital city TIGER]

Delilah

indeed.

tho I just watched GWS PUMP Ainslie FC yesterday so glad i didint see the Tiges loss too.

ps GO TIGES! (next week....obviously...oh crap...the Pies ...pps- there were NO PIES at AINSLIE (had to have a sausage sanga...)

 

[happy_punter]

Calling it first, occasions for the record books in 2011. Collingwood will beat richmond or gold coast with the biggest margin in history or highest score in history or both! Also, Richmond may be the first to lose to the gold coast suns!

 

[Cathal Brugha]

I would add this to the 'why's': Damien, why would you goad Hawthorn by publicly predicting that we were a big chance to defeat them?????

 

[Rubber Hips]

I would add this to the 'why's': Damien, why would you goad Hawthorn by publicly predicting that we were a big chance to defeat them?????

agree...talk about sucking yourself in!

Dimma's learnt a lesson here I bet

 

[_RT_]

Calling it first, occasions for the record books in 2011. Collingwood will beat richmond or gold coast with the biggest margin in history or highest score in history or both! Also, Richmond may be the first to lose to the gold coast suns!

Seriously are you actually a Tigers supporter?

 

[santa claws]

I agree about Morton RT, playing such a talented player in starvation corner doesn't add up, he looked better when moved into midfield later in game. Dunno about midfield setup, must admit Ive found it starnge that cotch and martin look to be spending inordinate periods in front half, i can only assume it is aimed at packing some talent down there as we need to manufacture some goals.

and......time to add miller to the mix, He was put onto the list for this, the kids need expereinced help...tuck and miller a MUST

of course it adds up. what other 30 40 goal a yr forward do we have outside of jack. you guessed it morton.
weather we like it or not morton must spend significant time forward. what i dont understand is why he is not a permanent part of rotations. he went midfield only after being starved. 5 or 10 minutes in the midfield each quarter is the way to go.

we dont have have many genuine goal kickers we have to rotate mids who have genuine goal kicking ability thru the forward line. those mids are morton cotchin and possibly conca and houli.
its not rocket science.

also we dont have to play without structure people keep saying we had no other key back to play including hardwick. not true why could we not play either gourdis or post down back. yeah big deal they are out of form so is edwards and any number of players we could have dropped to play them.
why not miller why not browne. why not tuck we didnt have to drop kids to play these blokes and make some better structure.

for sure and certain play as many kids as is PRACTICABLE but dont play kids with out adequate experience structure and size around them we want them to be able to go out and get a kick not get beaten up.

i still havent looked at the game but i dont really need to the same problems we suffered in the first two roundswill be the same problems we suffered against hawthorn.

15 of our players gave us an average possesion count of around 10 it did not include the sub edwards.

the obvious problems are and have been for ages lack of size, lack of height lack of polish lack of possesions and obviously lack of experience.

hypothetically we could play the exact same side next week and beat collingwood but the problems will still be the same.

 

[CamTinley]

With regards to Morton, I think the intention is for him to be a hard running mid-forward. Provide an extra man around the ball at times between CHB-CHF, but then when possible, move deeper forward when we are rebounding.

Last year's stint purely in the midfield was to help him develop into this role.

It may just be case of him not being good enough. He is not very quick, and maybe can't sustain the running component.

I think they identify him as an important asset around goals, just as many on here do, but also realise that we need an extra body around the contest at times.

The boy is at the crossroads.

I can only assume they are waiting for Griff to return before going with the 3 tall structure. Lets admit it, more than half this board would go into meltdown if Miller was picked. Only those behind the doors of the selection room can explain why guys like Post and Dreickx are not in the mix for now. I also think Dimma and co treat the second half of the season more seriously than the first, with regards to winning. By that I mean I think they will use the first 5-10 games purely for development, playing all the young kids whilst they are fresh. Later in the year, others will be given a go, hoping to get some better performances before heading into the next year. That's more of an intuitive guess on my part.

I love having Dusty and Cotch in the forward line, but I do agree that we need to get the formula right. That may take some time, especially with guys on limited fitness levels due to being so young.

I can't understand this. Morton was played at HF at the start of 2010, didn't do much and got dropped. He went to the midfield late in the season and it was like a duck to water. He got plenty of possessions, hit plenty of targets and kicked goals ...

then he goes back to HF and he is "at the cross roads". Just play him where he plays best and everyone will be a winner. You experiment to see if something works. If it works why then go back to square one?

 

[Bazzar]

what other 30 40 goal a yr forward do we have outside of jack. you guessed it morton.

You forgot to add Jake King. Already averaging 2 a game, theirs 42.

 

[Tigerland]

Have to agree, some of the coaching decisions have been mistakes.

Why are will still the worst and least effective tacklers in the AFL and why hasn't Dimma improved this one bit in 2 pre seasons?

People will look at the stats and say something like" hey but Morton did 8 tackles". Yeah and 6 of those the player stood up in the tackle and handballed it to a teamtate.
Note to Dimma and coaching staff - Grabbing a players jumper is not a tackle.

 

[santa claws]

Have to agree, some of the coaching decisions have been mistakes.

Why are will still the worst and least effective tacklers in the AFL and why hasn't Dimma improved this one bit in 2 pre seasons?

People will look at the stats and say something like" hey but Morton did 8 tackles". Yeah and 6 of those the player stood up in the tackle and handballed it to a teamtate.
Note to Dimma and coaching staff - Grabbing a players jumper is not a tackle.

ah runts is the answer runts. we have players who are credited with tackles because they attempt it but in effect their tackles are meaningless and insignificant.

 

[santa claws]

You forgot to add Jake King. Already averaging 2 a game, theirs 42.

oh deary we arent reading too well tonight are we. how many has kingy kicked in a season again.
typical of some 4 goals in two games and suddenly we have a goal kicker.
how about before you proclaim him he actually kicks those 42 in a season. or how about we insist he do it for a couple of seasons in a row.

ya know what thank god hes managed to kick a couple because hes getting stuff all of the ball other wise.

 

[Spluff]

ah runts is the answer runts. we have players who are credited with tackles because they attempt it but in effect their tackles are meaningless and insignificant.

I don't think tackles are credited by Champion Data unless they force a ball up or a free kick.

 

[Bazzar]

oh deary we arent reading too well tonight are we. how many has kingy kicked in a season again.
typical of some 4 goals in two games and suddenly we have a goal kicker.
how about before you proclaim him he actually kicks those 42 in a season. or how about we insist he do it for a couple of seasons in a row.

ya know what thank god hes managed to kick a couple because hes getting stuff all of the ball other wise.

Kicked 15 in his last 7 games average of 2.14.

Kicked 2, 2, 3, 3, 1, 2, 2 since his move as a defensive goal kicker.

Mortons last 7 games as a comparison. 7 goals at an average of 1 goal.

Kicked 0, 1, 2, 3, 0, 0, 1.

So to answer your question, yes with Jake i think we have a goal kicker.

 

[happy_punter]

Seriously are you actually a Tigers supporter?

Yes I am! What I have decided to do here is say what others don't dare say and bring in some reality! Just telling it how it is!

 

[SleepingGiant]

3 weeks in and I've got a few questions.

1. Why have we moved away from playing Morton up the ground as an extra midfielder when it was clearly working so well in the last 6 games of 2010? Its even more puzzling that he has been moved back to almost a fulltime HF when Dimma said that this role was pretty much non exsistant.

2. All summer Dimma spoke about how he wanted to play 3 talls up forward, yet the first 3 rounds we've played only 2, 3 if you count Morton, but he isn't really a tall. So I have to ask when are we going to start playing the structure than we spent all summer practicing?

3. Why have we moved Cotchin and Martin out of the centre square at the start of games? They are ball hunters and yet we have had them starting outside the square nearly every game. Surely having one of them in the guts alongside Jackson & Foley is a better way to go, especially when we've been smashed in clearances early in games.

Now I understand that we're trying to develop the side but surely when we find things that work like the Morton move and we move away from it for no specific reason, you have to start wondering why. At the same time you also have to wonder why when things don't work why we continue to try them in the hope that somehow it will change.

1) He has to play there given the non-form/injury of players who could play there. For example Miller is only for emergency's, and Post does not deserve a game. It is better to give this role to Morton so he can work on goal-kicking aspects of his game while other players get opportunities in his midfield role. When players like Griff and Post are ready to step up he could move back to the midfield where he would have potent attacking abilities.

2) Once again there is nobody suitabile to come in and play as the 3rd tall so this forces us to play Morton in that role. He will benefit by playing up there and mastering his attacking craft more before moving back to the midfield. This is more beneficial to the team then bringing in Miller at the expense of a younger player.

3) I'm not too sure on the 3rd point but it is no big deal. I believe Grigg, Foley, and Jackson should be able to get the clearances? Martin and Cotchin probably need to improve their outside games?

Everyone needs to settle the **** down. We have injuries and suspensions exposing our lack of depth right now. Structures are not ideal right now due to this but players are benefiting still as a result (i.e. getting games into Grimes, Astbury, etc. Morton improving his attacking game) What is occuring is what we should expect this year. We are going to be average at best and shit most of the time while Hardwick experiments structures and the like to get things right (i.e. not doing things to win games like put numbers back and play players like Tuck). It takes time. I reckon we are going to struggle to the mid-season break and then get some momentum like last year when Hardwick settles the line up and releases the handbreak a bit.

I put my reputation on the line saying we will make finals in 2012. We will improve, mark my words.

 

[_RT_]

ah runts is the answer runts. we have players who are credited with tackles because they attempt it but in effect their tackles are meaningless and insignificant.

From Champion Data:

Tackle: When a player stops an opposition player with the ball from getting his kick or handball away in a legal manner, or reduces the effectiveness of the oppositions disposal. The tacklers action must change the course of play. Only effective tackles are recorded.

In other words Nahas doesn't get credited with attempted tackles and the ones he does lay aren't insignifigant or meaningless.

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

From Champion Data:


In other words Nahas doesn't get credited with attempted tackles and the ones he does lay aren't insignifigant or meaningless.

The highlighted piece still remains questionable RT. How do they deem reducing the effectiveness of the disposal , is reducing the effectiveness not allowing the player to run around on their preferred foot and kick running straight at the target ?

Tackle: When a player stops an opposition player with the ball from getting his kick or handball away in a legal manner, or reduces the effectiveness of the oppositions disposal. The tacklers action must change the course of play. Only effective tackles are recorded.

 

[_RT_]

The highlighted piece still remains questionable RT. How do they deem reducing the effectiveness of the disposal , is reducing the effectiveness not allowing the player to run around on their preferred foot and kick running straight at the target ?

Tackle: When a player stops an opposition player with the ball from getting his kick or handball away in a legal manner, or reduces the effectiveness of the oppositions disposal. The tacklers action must change the course of play. Only effective tackles are recorded.

It says straight after that the tacklers action must change the course of play. I would suggest this means that if you tackled a player and forced his disposal to go to a contest where the ball was locked up or turned over then its an effective tackle.

In other words, those tackles that get laid where the player has just got his kick/handball away and still hits a teammate aren't counted as they don't change the course of play.

 

[Madtiger2006]

WTF has this got to do with this thread ?

If you read it then you'd have your answer

2. All summer Dimma spoke about how he wanted to play 3 talls up forward

 

[Goldust]

Everyone needs to settle the **** down. We have injuries and suspensions exposing our lack of depth right now. Structures are not ideal right now due to this but players are benefiting still as a result (i.e. getting games into Grimes, Astbury, etc. Morton improving his attacking game)

HERE'S a good point, our structure is lacking because brainless twits like Rance and especially McGuane do the wrong thing by the team and cop silly suspensions which HURT the team!!!
In other words, our problems are self-created.
There's every chance someone like Astbury would move forward to be the third tall on occasions, but because others can't abide by the rules, they create a situation where we are forced to play the only two, albeit inexperienced, tallss we have in defence!!!

 

[Bazzar]

From Champion Data:


In other words Nahas doesn't get credited with attempted tackles and the ones he does lay aren't insignifigant or meaningless.

Gotta laugh at the anti Nahas brigade so far this year. Today’s stats in the paper, Champion Data’s new ‘Pressure Acts” had Nahas 3rd highest of all teams for the weekend on 30. Very impressive. Last week he was Richmond’s highest with 19, so he upped it big time this week. Super quick players who can generate this amount of pressure is invaluable.

Would be interesting to come back to round 3 when the B&F is counted as I reckon he would be around 5 or 6 so far. Ludicrous those who want him out.

 

[I'm the Juggernaut]

Non of us are privy to what is going on behind the scenes, but I believe Dimma has got a plan, and we should have faith and stick with him.

It seems he is sticking hard a fast to this plan, and will introduce players into the mix when the plan dictates.

I'm as frustrated as the rest of you, but i believe he knows what he is doing. Stick fat it will all come together in time.

 

[Rayzorwire]

If Nahas can consistently reproduce intensity like he has the last two games he is well and truly worth playing, can't believe people are having a crack at him for Saturday's game.

You can't complain about his size if he's regularly beating bigger opponents in contested situations at ground level, he won a lot of 40/60 30/70 contests and was excellent in that regard. You can't complain about his tackling when he's laying heaps more than most other players and really adding to the pressure we apply. You can't complain about his hit-and-miss ball use when your supposed best ball users are doing much worse and far less to make up for their errors.

Consistency will be the tough part for him as it has been in the past. If he can bring that to the table each week then he's won me over and deserves his spot in the 22. If and when we have a bigger bodied, more skilled player who can bring the same repeat efforts and intensity, I'll be happy to revise that opinion.

 

[_RT_]

HERE'S a good point, our structure is lacking because brainless twits like Rance and especially McGuane do the wrong thing by the team and cop silly suspensions which HURT the team!!!
In other words, our problems are self-created.
There's every chance someone like Astbury would move forward to be the third tall on occasions, but because others can't abide by the rules, they create a situation where we are forced to play the only two, albeit inexperienced, tallss we have in defence!!!

Granted out structure down back is suffering because of suspension, but up forward we had options that could and should have allowed us to play with the structure we spent all summer working on. Even with the suspensions and injury we still had the options there to gives us the ability to play structure we want to play with in the long run.

We had Miller or Post available to play as the extra tall up forward or in the case of the suspensions either could have gone down back.

It would have also meant we could have used Morton up on the wing where he had showed pretty good form at the end of last season.

Again, I'm not losing faith in what Hardwick is trying to do, just asking why things that we seemed to have spent a lot of time on developing aren't being put in to play when the first 4 weeks was a perfect time to see how things worked.

 

[LegendakaRICHO]

tuck will be with the club until he retires or he ask to be traded and they get a deal done

its that simple