Roast Why Why Why?

["The Roar Is Back"]

If Nahas can consistently reproduce intensity like he has the last two games he is well and truly worth playing, can't believe people are having a crack at him for Saturday's game.

You can't complain about his size if he's regularly beating bigger opponents in contested situations at ground level, he won a lot of 40/60 30/70 contests and was excellent in that regard. You can't complain about his tackling when he's laying heaps more than most other players and really adding to the pressure we apply. You can't complain about his hit-and-miss ball use when your supposed best ball users are doing much worse and far less to make up for their errors.

Consistency will be the tough part for him as it has been in the past. If he can bring that to the table each week then he's won me over and deserves his spot in the 22. If and when we have a bigger bodied, more skilled player who can bring the same repeat efforts and intensity, I'll be happy to revise that opinion.

There is no way Nahas won more contests than he lost , in the first quarter alone he was pushed off the Footy way to easily, which directly resulted
in unpressurized inside 50 entries , fantastic attitude However .
He most likely won't be dropped due to the amount of others who simply had no desire for the contest . Our mids at congestions gave up front position way to easily and players like Houli , Connors and Edwards squibbed it , quite often .

 

[dean33]

Well you can forget about taylor he's gone walkabout once too often, I'm pretty sure we've seen the last of him.

Sure we haven't seen the last of him, sure we'll see him in a few years dominating games for a collingwood, port adelaide or the like...

 

[Bazzar]

If Nahas can consistently reproduce intensity like he has the last two games he is well and truly worth playing, can't believe people are having a crack at him for Saturday's game.

Top 10 Pressure Acts for Saturday night (Tackles in brackets)

Nahas 30 (12)
Jackson 19 (11)
White 15 (7)
Gus 15 (7)
Martin 15 (5)
King 10 (6)
Morton 10 (4)
Riewoldt 10 (1)
Batchelor 9 (3)
Connors 9 (3)

 

[Madtiger2006]

Nahas is way too small and lacks skill to be a permanent member of the side. We need Post and Griffiths to force their way in over the next 2-3 weeks

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Top 10 Pressure Acts for Saturday night (Tackles in brackets)

Nahas 30 (12)
Jackson 19 (11)
White 15 (7)
Gus 15 (7)
Martin 15 (5)
King 10 (6)
Morton 10 (4)
Riewoldt 10 (1)
Batchelor 9 (3)
Connors 9 (3)

Just on this... I'd be interested to see the same list for Hawthron. Is it available anywhere?

Where I think we lack is that we need good players (ie. good users & decision makers) also being high on the list of defensive/pressure acts. These days, it's no use having good defensive players who turn it over. Just as it's no use having good flashy footballers who don't know how to apply pressure. I fear that's what we currently have, and thus we get found out in tough games.

I'd have thought we'd want at least 5 or 6 players in the 20's on that list, and to not see any of Lids, Cotch or Axel in there at all probably sums up our game.

 

[_RT_]

Nahas is way too small and lacks skill to be a permanent member of the side. We need Post and Griffiths to force their way in over the next 2-3 weeks

Griffiths and Post aren't going to put on the same sort of defensive pressure that Nahas it putting on.

 

[Bazzar]

Just on this... I'd be interested to see the same list for Hawthron. Is it available anywhere?

Ask and you shall receive.

Sewell 14 (9)
Ellis 14 (3)
Shies 13 (5)
Burgoyne 11 (6)
Renouf 11 (5)
Suckling 11 (5)
Savage 11 (4)
Young 11 (3)
Gilham 11 (2)
Roughead 10 (2)

Your point about the quality of our better pressure players is correct. Cant blame Nahas, White etc, but yes our better players need to lift

Total tackles Hawks 88 - Tiges 75. We have the extreme, to many with high count, and to many with stuff all. The Hawks have an even spread. Thats how we should be.

Out of curiosity I had a look at the top 3 center clearance players for both teams and compared it with their total eff% , pressure acts and tackles (again in brackets)

Lewis 7 - 59% - 9 - (3)
Sewell 5 - 71% - 14 - (9)
Shiels 5 - 74% - 13 - (5)


Martin 7 - 68% - 15 - (5)
Jackson 6 - 68% - 19 - (11)
Grigg 6 - 58% - 2 - (1)

More pressure but slightly less eff% Comparable except for Grigg, whos workrate is good, but going by this simple stat needs to lift his defensive pressure.

 

[Madtiger2006]

Griffiths and Post aren't going to put on the same sort of defensive pressure that Nahas it putting on.

Do you really think Nahas defensive pressure makes much difference? A player like Swan could run from full back to full forward with Nahas clinged to him

 

[_RT_]

Do you really think Nahas defensive pressure makes much difference? A player like Swan could run from full back to full forward with Nahas clinged to him

Makes more of a difference than a 'star' like Morton does.

 

[Cathal Brugha]

Do you really think Nahas defensive pressure makes much difference? A player like Swan could run from full back to full forward with Nahas clinged to him

Funny and astute

 

["The Roar Is Back"]

Pressure Acts :
" A player will score a point for a physical pressure act when he lays an effective tackle or lays a hand on the opposition ball carrier as he tries to get the ball away.
With implied pressure being tracked for the first time, the ability to corral an opponent will be rewarded.
Players chasing an opponent from behind, forcing them to hurriedly dispose of the ball, also will be rewarded with a "pressure act". "

Make your own judgement whether it rewards players who attack the footy or those who are 2nd to the footy or unable to win contested footy ?

 

[santa claws]

Kicked 15 in his last 7 games average of 2.14.

Kicked 2, 2, 3, 3, 1, 2, 2 since his move as a defensive goal kicker.

Mortons last 7 games as a comparison. 7 goals at an average of 1 goal.

Kicked 0, 1, 2, 3, 0, 0, 1.

So to answer your question, yes with Jake i think we have a goal kicker.

good for you needless to say i dont.not n one anyway.

 

[santa claws]

Just on this... I'd be interested to see the same list for Hawthron. Is it available anywhere?

Where I think we lack is that we need good players (ie. good users & decision makers) also being high on the list of defensive/pressure acts. These days, it's no use having good defensive players who turn it over. Just as it's no use having good flashy footballers who don't know how to apply pressure. I fear that's what we currently have, and thus we get found out in tough games.

I'd have thought we'd want at least 5 or 6 players in the 20's on that list, and to not see any of Lids, Cotch or Axel in there at all probably sums up our game.

ah some common sense.we have the battlers who try hard and even lay the odd tackle and we have the so called well skilled blokes who fail to apply pressure.
how about we find some players that are are both.
whats that we have been saying again oh yeah we are full of glass half fulls.

what we need is an abundance of well rounded players not a team full of players who are okay at one thing but lousy at the other.nahas is your typical glass half full and we wont go anywhere with the likes of him.

too small mostly ineffective in a contest poor skills and just does not find enough of the ball. the trouble is he has a fair few mates.
i still have not seen the hawthorn game so i cant comment on how well he tackled or didnt but i bet my bottom dollar he was ineffective in far too many contested situations.
secondly i would expect a reasonably high tackle count for all players in the wet and most certainly by richmond players with such a lousy possesion count.

even if one was inclineed to say yep nahas deserves a spot despite his weaknesses why do we insist on playing so many others just like him.
you can understand one but 4 or 5. what outstanding attribute does he bring to the table to offset all those deficiencies.

 

[Bazzar]

good for you needless to say i dont.not n one anyway.

It must cut you so bad Kingie has turned into a very valuable member of our team and our future.

 

[santa claws]

It must cut you so bad Kingie has turned into a very valuable member of our team and our future.

not at all and i have said recently hes done enough to earn his place.you only have to look at the sides i name each week to see this.
but despite him making a small contribution each week hes still an ordinary footballer.
if he and others like him are part of the long term i will bet right now we will be in 5 or 6 yrs time wondering why we are still a bottom 4 side.

to me we should be actively looking for a rioli or a garlett or a milne or many others who are infinately better players than king.

yep kingy has earnt his spot for now but hes no part of the future not if we are serious about becomeing a genuine contender.

and ya know what if he kicks 30 goals not 42 and regular nullifys his opponents run of the back line i will be more than happy to give him another season but for sure and certain at the same time id be looking for his upgrade.

 

[Rayzorwire]

Where I think we lack is that we need good players (ie. good users & decision makers) also being high on the list of defensive/pressure acts. These days, it's no use having good defensive players who turn it over. Just as it's no use having good flashy footballers who don't know how to apply pressure. I fear that's what we currently have, and thus we get found out in tough games.

I'd have thought we'd want at least 5 or 6 players in the 20's on that list, and to not see any of Lids, Cotch or Axel in there at all probably sums up our game.

Well said DD, and quite a few more players old enough to do better which you could add to the 'missing intensity' list, including our captain sadly.

Games where nothing goes right for you and you play terribly now and again are excusable, happens to every player, but the best kind of player starts working harder to make up for letting the side down. We don't seem to have enough of those yet and I'm sure Hardwick and the coaching staff are working to address it.

 

[_RT_]

ah some common sense.we have the battlers who try hard and even lay the odd tackle and we have the so called well skilled blokes who fail to apply pressure.
how about we find some players that are are both.
whats that we have been saying again oh yeah we are full of glass half fulls.

what we need is an abundance of well rounded players not a team full of players who are okay at one thing but lousy at the other.nahas is your typical glass half full and we wont go anywhere with the likes of him.

too small mostly ineffective in a contest poor skills and just does not find enough of the ball. the trouble is he has a fair few mates.
i still have not seen the hawthorn game so i cant comment on how well he tackled or didnt but i bet my bottom dollar he was ineffective in far too many contested situations.
secondly i would expect a reasonably high tackle count for all players in the wet and most certainly by richmond players with such a lousy possesion count.

even if one was inclineed to say yep nahas deserves a spot despite his weaknesses why do we insist on playing so many others just like him.
you can understand one but 4 or 5. what outstanding attribute does he bring to the table to offset all those deficiencies.

Nahas' stats from Saturday night: 15 disposals (10k/5hb) 1 mark 12 tackles 3 frees for 1 clanger 11 contested possessions 5 I50 60%DE.

Season averages: 14.6 disposals 2 marks 7 tackles 2 clangers 6.67 contested possessions 2.33 I50 68%DE

Not bad numbers for a bloke you say is too small mostly ineffective in a contest and just does not find enough of the ball.

Oh and before you talk about what you see with your own eyes, so let me just say that I've been to 2 of the 3 games live and have seen the work that Nahas does that doesn't get shown on TV.

 

[_RT_]

Well said DD, and quite a few more players old enough to do better which you could add to the 'missing intensity' list, including our captain sadly.

Games where nothing goes right for you and you play terribly now and again are excusable, happens to every player, but the best kind of player starts working harder to make up for letting the side down. We don't seem to have enough of those yet and I'm sure Hardwick and the coaching staff are working to address it.

I think we need to remember that Cotchin, who we all expect to be that player who not only wins the pill but also applies the defensive pressure that we lack, has only just completed his first full preseason. Not only that but Martin another who should be doing the same has just started his second season. When they finally get to that level where they can run a full game like Jackson & Foley can then we'll have that core midfield group that can put that pressure on for full games.

Alongside them I think Helbig and Contin are 2 more who can join that group and give us some real depth, the problem is that they are still a good 2-3 seasons away from having the tanks to do that. The good thing is that Jackson Foley Martin & Cotchin are young enough to still be around when this happens.

 

[santa claws]

Nahas' stats from Saturday night: 15 disposals (10k/5hb) 1 mark 12 tackles 3 frees for 1 clanger 11 contested possessions 5 I50 60%DE.

Season averages: 14.6 disposals 2 marks 7 tackles 2 clangers 6.67 contested possessions 2.33 I50 68%DE

Not bad numbers for a bloke you say is too small mostly ineffective in a contest and just does not find enough of the ball.

Oh and before you talk about what you see with your own eyes, so let me just say that I've been to 2 of the 3 games live and have seen the work that Nahas does that doesn't get shown on TV.

im more than happy for ya rt to back him in. me ive seen more than enough.
hmm playing as a small mid with good game time. 15 possesions hmm not good enough and only added to an area we got spanked in.
supposedly made 7 tackles in the wet yep second to the ball. only 2 clangers sheesh that is an improvement. 68% de lets not go there its been done to death.
2 inside 50s is that good for a mid or bad. yeah he may have went okay but hardly passable it seems.

i will say again id trust my eyes over your stats anyday of the week. trouble is i havent seen the game but do i really need to.

the stats you offer up are barely passable and thats one of his good games apparently.

 

[MightyTiger]

Don't forget Jakobi RT, I think this kid will turn out to be a gem.

 

[IDGAF]

supposedly made 7 tackles in the wet yep second to the ball.

That old chestnut ... come on santa you can do better than that .

If it was a player "you liked" you would pull that stat out and say how hard he worked when we didn't have the ball.

 

[_RT_]

im more than happy for ya rt to back him in. me ive seen more than enough.
hmm playing as a small mid with good game time. 15 possesions hmm not good enough and only added to an area we got spanked in.
supposedly made 7 tackles in the wet yep second to the ball. only 2 clangers sheesh that is an improvement. 68% de lets not go there its been done to death.
2 inside 50s is that good for a mid or bad. yeah he may have went okay but hardly passable it seems.

i will say again id trust my eyes over your stats anyday of the week. trouble is i havent seen the game but do i really need to.

the stats you offer up are barely passable and thats one of his good games apparently.

The stats I've put up just back what I've seen at the game live, not watching on TV, like I said gives a much better indication of what happens away from the play.

As for backing him in, far from it, for now he is doing enough to get him a game the following week. For me to back him he needs to put in a full season like the first 3 weeks.

 

[_RT_]

That old chestnut ... come on santa you can do better than that .

If it was a player "you liked" you would pull that stat out and say how hard he worked when we didn't have the ball.

Come on Iddy, you know that Claws doesn't like any of our players, well maybe a couple.

 

[santa claws]

im sorry boys but i dont see the point in going around in circles. i reckon ive made my position patemtly clear on nahas. no hedging bets for me hes not good enough and the reasons why have been mentioned and are there for all to see if they so wish.

i wouldnt dream of getting on here and try to make a case for a barely passable game it seems as a reason to keep a bloke. the bar is well and truly set low amongst our lot.

ah whitey did okay ah king did okay ah nahas did okay ah edwards did okay ditto connors houli and many others. the accumulative effect of playing so many players who do okay in some areas but poorly in others is a drubbing.

in the scheme of things that is in comparing him against his peers where does nahas stand as a mid. i have no doubt nahas would struggle to get a game at all other clubs yet we give such an obviously deficient player games because he tries really really hard and can produce the odd barely passable game.

 

[_RT_]

im sorry boys but i dont see the point in going around in circles. i reckon ive made my position patemtly clear on nahas. no hedging bets for me hes not good enough and the reasons why have been mentioned and are there for all to see if they so wish.

i wouldnt dream of getting on here and try to make a case for a barely passable game it seems as a reason to keep a bloke. the bar is well and truly set low amongst our lot.

ah whitey did okay ah king did okay ah nahas did okay ah edwards did okay ditto connors houli and many others. the accumulative effect of playing so many players who do okay in some areas but poorly in others is a drubbing.

in the scheme of things that is in comparing him against his peers where does nahas stand as a mid. i have no doubt nahas would struggle to get a game at all other clubs yet we give such an obviously deficient player games because he tries really really hard and can produce the odd barely passable game.

Didn't realise we had suddenly gone from last years 15th placed side that was still trying to find the right 22 to a contender for the 8 or heaven forbid the flag. Guys like Nahas White King and a few others are getting games right now because a) they are doing what is asked of them, b) we don't yet have replacements that are ready to come in and take their spots who are better skilled and able to compete at an AFL level better than what they currently can and c) the few players we do have that can do a better job in terms of competing at this level are either out of form or injured.

Sorry if thats not good enough for you but thats the cold hard facts. Would love to see guys like MacDonald Derickx Dea Webberley O'Rielly Post Griffiths and the like getting games ahead of some others but until their form or bodies allow that to happen we're stuck with the glass half full types that you detest so much yet still give their all every week. Right now as a team that is expected to win no more than 6 games for the season thats all we can really expect.