Why women play the rough/risky game of AF? How can we get more?/Improve the AFLW? Any barriers?

[jatz14]

Though not as often in sports where the boot can slide or pivot in contact with the ground

Thats not most sports though. Netball has had a serious ACL problem for like, forever, because they have to plant the foot and specifically not slide it. There are very few physical sports that involve running, where a sliding foot is a good thing. Basketball shoes are grippy, so are netball shoes, all the football codes have spikes, so does cricket.

 

[owen87]

1.
What the AFL have constantly stated, what its own Charter Of The Game states, & what a multitude of MSM AFL experts have stated, is that they want ball movement to be faster, & more free-flowing, with less stoppages. They do not want players (male & female) getting to more contests, in much larger nos., with increasing, average speed throughout the game.

Many examples of this more free-flowing ball movement desire are cited in this Thread... but I'm glad you enjoy more incessant stoppages & ball-ups, & seeing the stars on the bench. For c. 80 years, we had ruckmen & rovers having their regular rests in the pockets, not on the bench.

eg L. Matthews, a widely regarded "hard man" has said hits & collisions now, on average, have greater force than previous eras- because players, on average, are heavier, stronger, more explosive, having had lots of rests, & are thus hitting harder.

There is no acceptance in the AFL for the record tackling/stoppages/scrappy/low scoring very congested style that has become increasingly common since c.2005- & the attendant big rise in tackling/bumping/pushing /collision injury rates.









2. This article below, on female AF injury problems is depressing, & quite gruesome. These concerns will NOT dissipate, & will increase- unless significant improvements occur.

"The problem has only gotten worse — the AFLW Injury report found there 5.1 ACL injuries per 1,000 hours in 2019 — that increased to 7.5 in 2020. It has been labelled a knee injury crisis within the AFLW and I think the numbers support the claim," researcher Tess Rolley said.


"A third of the injuries came when a player was wrong-footed when defending. Players losing their balance while tackling or being tackled was responsible for just under a third of all cases.

There is a clear contrast with the men's game.

"The key difference that we found was landing isn't a predominant injury characteristic in the AFLW," Ms Rolley said.

"In AFLW, they are playing a more ground style of play, more congested football, there's more contested possessions, there's less contesting marking situations. (Massive congestion is a major problem, & major contributory factor, in injury rates- my words, & emphasis)"

The injury that sidelined Ash is a 'crisis' in women's footy. New research could explain why

When Ash Brazill ruptured her ACL it ended her 2020 football and netball seasons, but new research may be able to reduce the risk of injury.

www.abc.net.au

Females should, if they wish to play AF, not be consigned to female" tackle bags". Female AF requires adjustments, for females physical & psychological health.

I mean, you quote things, then take them entirely out of context to reach your predetermined conclusion. Every road leads to 'tackleball' with you.

Leigh Matthews;

has said hits & collisions now, on average, have greater force than previous eras- because players, on average, are heavier, stronger, more explosive, having had lots of rests, & are thus hitting harder.

So you want players to be slower, lighter, weaker, less explosive and less rested?

How do you propose fully professional athletes become less athletic and get to less contests, move slower and less far, and either weigh less or don't use their full strength when trying to stop an opposition player?

Do you think through the implications of what you say when you go on ad nauseum about these things?

I note your silence on the very concerning & frightening (to most) high female AF injury rates- & the possible, or probable, negative implications for this on the long term future growth of female AF.

What a strange accusation to level at someone.

The girls consistently say they want to play football. Not touch football, not modified football, not girls football. Football.

I'm advocating for the girls to do what they want, not taking a strange paternalistic position of trying to tell the girls wanting to play football that I know better than them.

"The problem has only gotten worse — the AFLW Injury report found there 5.1 ACL injuries per 1,000 hours in 2019 — that increased to 7.5 in 2020. It has been labelled a knee injury crisis within the AFLW and I think the numbers support the claim," researcher Tess Rolley said.

There's little doubt more could be done to pre-hab female footballers to limit the risks for serious injuries, we know there's plenty that can be done to stabilise the muscles supporting the knee to limit the risks of doing an ACL, but that doesn't remove the underlying physical-biological issue that female anatomy is more prone to ACL injury than males. So short of making AFLW 'walking only' you're always going to run the risk of ACL injuries being at a higher rate than male players irrespective of how the game looks.

Females should, if they wish to play AF, not be consigned to female" tackle bags". Female AF requires adjustments, for females physical & psychological health.

Do these adjustments involve making it non-contact? We could make it so that the girls only have to touch the opposition player with the ball and they have to hand it over.

 

[owen87]

Thats not most sports though. Netball has had a serious ACL problem for like, forever, because they have to plant the foot and specifically not slide it. There are very few physical sports that involve running, where a sliding foot is a good thing. Basketball shoes are grippy, so are netball shoes, all the football codes have spikes, so does cricket.

That stopping rule in Netball is horrific, how they've persisted with it for so long i'll never know.

If you could think of one single rule for a sport that was going to maximise the number of ankle and knee injuries, I'm not sure you could come up with a better one than that.

 

[jatz14]

I mean, you quote things, then take them entirely out of context to reach your predetermined conclusion. Every road leads to 'tackleball' with you.

Leigh Matthews;



So you want players to be slower, lighter, weaker, less explosive and less rested?

How do you propose fully professional athletes become less athletic and get to less contests, move slower and less far, and either weigh less or don't use their full strength when trying to stop an opposition player?

Do you think through the implications of what you say when you go on ad nauseum about these things?



What a strange accusation to level at someone.

The girls consistently say they want to play football. Not touch football, not modified football, not girls football. Football.

I'm advocating for the girls to do what they want, not taking a strange paternalistic position of trying to tell the girls wanting to play football that I know better than them.



There's little doubt more could be done to pre-hab female footballers to limit the risks for serious injuries, we know there's plenty that can be done to stabilise the muscles supporting the knee to limit the risks of doing an ACL, but that doesn't remove the underlying physical-biological issue that female anatomy is more prone to ACL injury than males. So short of making AFLW 'walking only' you're always going to run the risk of ACL injuries being at a higher rate than male players irrespective of how the game looks.



Do these adjustments involve making it non-contact? We could make it so that the girls only have to touch the opposition player with the ball and they have to hand it over.

Of course, the leading cause of ACL injury is a player being wrong footed as they go to tackle, and having to suddenly prop and change direction. A situation more likely to happen in open play where the player with the ball has speed and room to change direction. A situation also likely to happen in tag footy, as it specifically ISNT the actual tackle that is the most risk, but suddenly changing direction prior to the tackle.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[owen87]

Of course, the leading cause of ACL injury is a player being wrong footed as they go to tackle, and having to suddenly prop and change direction. A situation more likely to happen in open play where the player with the ball has speed and room to change direction. A situation also likely to happen in tag footy, as it specifically ISNT the actual tackle that is the most risk, but suddenly changing direction prior to the tackle.

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app

Ban running.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. Netball is now not making its traditional, very short dresses & "skimpy" tops compulsory. NA claims this has been a deterrant to some females playing netball, negatively affecting their player nos. Shorts, leggings, & less-revealing tops will now be permitted.

Will this netball uniform change now result in more girls playing netball? Will it cause some girls to prefer netball over AF, & thus lower female AF growth rate increases?

J. Campbell, Women's Health site said

"...women’s uniforms are largely sexualised and for many, it’s far from inclusive. It makes a recent move by Netball Australia to unveil a new uniform cause for celebration. Just recently, Netball NSW unveiled a new range of apparel that offers players more flexibility and broadens the appeal of the game. The traditional netball dress might now be a thing of the past.

As Netball NSW CEO Tain Drinkwater explained to The Guardian, “Netball NSW believes that all participants should, as far as possible, be supported in wearing a uniform that allows them to participate in netball in the manner in which they feel most comfortable.”


Drinkwater added, “The key aim of this is to make sure we advance our position as a sport for people not just of all cultural backgrounds and gender identities, but all shapes and sizes too. It is clear that rigidity when it comes to clubs only allowing dresses is holding back our participation numbers" (My emphases).

Netball NSW Unveils New Uniforms That Champion Inclusivity - Women's Health Australia

The new range of on-court apparel options now include singlets, T-shirts, long-sleeve tops, shorts and compression wear, while the dress is also still available for those who want to wear them. In offering such an extensive range of choices, Netball NSW has presented players with a uniform that...

www.womenshealth.com.au

2.

Seemingly innocuous change of direction [Exactly!] in wide open space = torn ACL [Exactly!]. The faster the game is [The AFL etc., & I, are arguing only for faster ball movement- we want players to slow down!Less interchange = lower average running speeds], the more injuries of that type are going to occur... in any sport!

Refer to my above post#423- the AFL, their Charter Of The Game, a multitude of experts in the MSM etc. want faster ball movement, with much less stoppages & congestion. They do not want the players to be running faster, but to have average slower speeds, with less interchange.
Force = Mass X Acceleration- as L. Matthews & many others have said, players now are hitting etc. harder than ever!

Your quoted comment actually reinforces what I have said about the very high, & worrying, rate of female knee injuries in AF.

Because their is so much larger player nos. involved in more constant congestion now, to avoid the multitude of opponents tackling/ threatening to tackle, blocking your space, it is now necessary for more female players to take more evasive action. These female players must, much more often, change direction, swerve & baulk their multitude of opponents in the horrific congestion- directly contributing to females having up to 9 times the incidence of serious knee injuries.

It is essential that the no. of serious knee injuries in females playing AF be vastly reduced (now up to 9 times greater, cf males). These injuries, which also require very long rehab., are also causing severe psychological issues for many females; ditto, concussions (c. double the rate, cf males).

I mean, you quote things, then take them entirely out of context to reach your predetermined conclusion. Every road leads to 'tackleball' with you.

Leigh Matthews;



So you want players to be slower, lighter, weaker, less explosive and less rested?

How do you propose fully professional athletes become less athletic and get to less contests, move slower and less far, and either weigh less or don't use their full strength when trying to stop an opposition player?

Do you think through the implications of what you say when you go on ad nauseum about these things?



What a strange accusation to level at someone.

The girls consistently say they want to play football. Not touch football, not modified football, not girls football. Football.

I'm advocating for the girls to do what they want, not taking a strange paternalistic position of trying to tell the girls wanting to play football that I know better than them.



There's little doubt more could be done to pre-hab female footballers to limit the risks for serious injuries, we know there's plenty that can be done to stabilise the muscles supporting the knee to limit the risks of doing an ACL, but that doesn't remove the underlying physical-biological issue that female anatomy is more prone to ACL injury than males. So short of making AFLW 'walking only' you're always going to run the risk of ACL injuries being at a higher rate than male players irrespective of how the game looks.



Do these adjustments involve making it non-contact? We could make it so that the girls only have to touch the opposition player with the ball and they have to hand it over.

I have had these discussions with you several times- perhaps you can respond directly, & relevantly to my issues/citations raised, to my comments in my post#423, which (again) refute your views.
No one is suggesting that female AF become a non-contact sport, or that players can only run slowly (average speeds should be lower & less ballistic, cf with the current, constant speeds (permitted by constant interchanges, after refreshing rests on the bench). Force= Mass X Acceleration).

What do you know, that the AFL, The AFL Charter Of The Game, AF historians, huge no. of AFL MSM experts etc. don't (ie latter who want to see much faster ball movement, much less stoppages, more scoring, & less ballistic speed/hits from players)?

 

[Teen Wolf]

Refer to my above post#423- the AFL, their Charter Of The Game... They do not want the players to be running faster, but to have average slower speeds, with less interchange.

Au contraire. If you are going to incessantly invoke da charta, I'd suggest you also familiarise yourself with it every once in a while, including these snippets...

FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENTS OF AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL

As Australia’s only indigenous code, Australian Football has unique characteristics to be maintained and encouraged:

• Features players running at high speed while bouncing the ball

Australian Football at AFL level to be maintained as a physically tough and contested game through:

• The physical demands of fast and extended play

Nothing about players running at slow speeds, no mention of minimal interchange.

It does claim that 18 players is a feature that ought to be maintained though, funnily enough. Maybe not such an infallible document after all.

 

[owen87]

I have had these discussions with you several times- perhaps you can respond directly, & relevantly to my issues/citations raised, to my comments in my post#423, which (again) refute your views.
No one is suggesting that female AF become a non-contact sport, or that players can only run slowly (average speeds should be lower & less ballistic, cf with the current, constant speeds (permitted by constant interchanges, after refreshing rests on the bench). Force= Mass X Acceleration).

What do you know, that the AFL, The AFL Charter Of The Game, AF historians, huge no. of AFL MSM experts etc. don't (ie latter who want to see much faster ball movement, much less stoppages, more scoring, & less ballistic speed/hits from players)?

Why would I bother?

You take weeks to reply, usually do so without discussing a single issue beyond raising "The Charter of the Game" and inevitably do so completely ignoring any and all context around what you're quoting.

You don't like that players tackle, but tackling wins games. You don't like that players run fast, but running fast wins games. You don't like that players run far, but running far wins games. You don't like modern defensive zoning, but modern defensive zoning wins games.

I don't know what you expect anyone to 'discuss' to comment in regards to your posts given your abject refusal to actually you know, engage in a discussion, and use your own brain to provide your own comments in your own words with your own opinions.

Fortunately, it's very obvious to everyone else what you want.

You want 1980s semi-professional AFL back. It's that simple, your comments on AFLW all lead back to semi-professional 1980s AFL being the peak and pinnacle of the game.

You demand teams actively play in a way that is less likely to win games, and that the AFL legislate rules such that teams cannot play in a way that is more likely to win games.

You want an exhibition league, basically, where the girls play like the 1970s and 1980s semi-professional men played.

You're simply an old man yelling at the clouds.

 

[BringBackTorps]

Essendon FC has announced that there will be a $50m upgrade of Windy Hill- & that its AFLW & VFLW sides will have their home games at Windy Hill.
The Essendon Cricket Club & Essendon Bowls Club will be relocated, permanently, to "improved" facilities in the area (inc. in the $50m total cost).

Bold vision revealed for Windy Hill precinct

Essendon outlines a bold vision for the re-development of the iconic Windy Hill precinct.

www.essendonfc.com.au

The AFLW, Essendon's AFLW & VFLW teams, & GR female AF will receive a major boost in northern & western Melbourne from this revival. Note the accompanying photos above are almost all female players- the female GR AF boom, essentially, is driving this Windy Hill revival.

I was dreading the possibility of AFLW games at EFC's Tullamarine Hangar complex- in a very isolated, windswept, flat, no crowd-covered, soulless, industrial estate.

EFC's AFLW team will attract much more enthusiastic & better crowd nos., by returning to its spiritual home: & female GR AF will be a major beneficiary.

C. Wilson is completely correct, when she writes "Bomber lost their soul... Tullamarine has no heart".

Bombers lost their soul with their move from Windy Hill

Essendon's decision to abandon their spiritual home at Windy Hill hasn't worked.

www.theage.com.au

 

[owen87]

Essendon FC has announced that there will be a $50m upgrade of Windy Hill- & that its AFLW & VFLW sides will have their home games at Windy Hill.
The Essendon Cricket Club & Essendon Bowls Club will be relocated, permanently, to "improved" facilities in the area (inc. in the $50m total cost).

Bold vision revealed for Windy Hill precinct

Essendon outlines a bold vision for the re-development of the iconic Windy Hill precinct.

www.essendonfc.com.au

The AFLW, Essendon's AFLW & VFLW teams, & GR female AF will receive a major boost in northern & western Melbourne from this revival. Note the accompanying photos above are almost all female players- the female GR AF boom, essentially, is driving this Windy Hill revival.

I was dreading the possibility of AFLW games at EFC's Tullamarine Hangar complex- in a very isolated, windswept, flat, no crowd-covered, soulless, industrial estate.

EFC's AFLW team will attract much more enthusiastic & better crowd nos., by returning to its spiritual home: & female GR AF will be a major beneficiary.

C. Wilson is completely correct, when she writes "Bomber lost their soul... Tullamarine has no heart".

Bombers lost their soul with their move from Windy Hill

Essendon's decision to abandon their spiritual home at Windy Hill hasn't worked.

www.theage.com.au

Should be good for local support for the Essendon AFLW team. Lots of families in the area that can wander down to watch games and build a connection with the team.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1.
"The injury affecting half of all AFLW players that no one is talking about"
By Dariya Salmin
Thursday 25 March 2021

Wollongong AF player U. McKay, re breast injuries/pain, said

"So I get bruising, swelling, and the pain can be there for say up to 48 hours afterwards," she said.
"The knock has come from either an elbow or a boot or just myself running into someone as well. And the football, the football always gives you a stinger."

Ass. Prof. D. McGhee said about 48% of female AF players are experiencing breast injuries- but only 10% report them!

La Trobe Uni Researcher D. Patterson, a former AFLW player, said

"I think we definitely need to increase the awareness of these potential issues amongst coaches, and then being aware of it and if [their tackling- from Patterson, but my emphasis] has to be modified, or whether you know, wearing some protective garments and sports bras to give the girls confidence to go into those contact situations."

The injury affecting half of all AFLW players that no one is talking about - triple j

Nearly 50 per cent of AFLW players are experiencing breast injuries, but most women aren't reporting them.

www.abc.net.au

This very high level of breast injuries, & pain & discomfort that a large no. of females experience whilst playing AF, is very disturbing- & is totally unacceptable.

This high frequency of breast injuries etc. is directly attributable to the horrific, constant, heavily congested, & huge rate of tackling, bumping, pushing, & collisions etc. that are occurring in (older) female GR AF, & the AFLW. It is clear that changes to the Rules, & game styles, in female AF are required.

As an immediate response, proper marking technique (with upper arms covering most of the breast area, as boys are taught, to assist in marking the ball- which also reduces the impact caused by the ball) must be thoroughly practised in training. And, when an opponent is sweating on you, take the mark in front, with hands outstretched- not a chest mark.

Also, there will probably be need for greater use of breast coverings eg the highly acclaimed Zena vest.

The constant flooding & running, part of the ugly constant congestion, is also causing lateral movements & pain in many women's breasts.

These are some of the reinforced breast protection vests available for females.

Why women play the rough/risky game of AF? How can we get more?/Improve the AFLW? Any barriers?

And K O'Hallaran. She posted something that suggested the Matilda's getting the same pay as the Socceroos meant AFLW players should be paid the same as the AFL. I replied and pointed out the W league is the appropriate comparison. She blocked me. I didn't even suggest AFLW players didn't...

www.bigfooty.com

2.

Why would I bother?

You take weeks to reply, usually do so without discussing a single issue beyond raising "The Charter of the Game" and inevitably do so completely ignoring any and all context around what you're quoting.

You don't like that players tackle, but tackling wins games. You don't like that players run fast, but running fast wins games. You don't like that players run far, but running far wins games. You don't like modern defensive zoning, but modern defensive zoning wins games.

I don't know what you expect anyone to 'discuss' to comment in regards to your posts given your abject refusal to actually you know, engage in a discussion, and use your own brain to provide your own comments in your own words with your own opinions.

Fortunately, it's very obvious to everyone else what you want.

You want 1980s semi-professional AFL back. It's that simple, your comments on AFLW all lead back to semi-professional 1980s AFL being the peak and pinnacle of the game.

You demand teams actively play in a way that is less likely to win games, and that the AFL legislate rules such that teams cannot play in a way that is more likely to win games.

You want an exhibition league, basically, where the girls play like the 1970s and 1980s semi-professional men played.

You're simply an old man yelling at the clouds.

I have refuted all your comments previously, citing AF experts etc, several times, after you have challenged mine.
You continue to make the same illogical, poorly conceived, claims- uncorroborated by any links etc. You are unable to dispute my many facts, links, citations etc., from AF experts, with any of your own independent sources.

You are now making ridiculous, & completely false & absurd, statements about my alleged desire for a semi-professional AFL etc. None of what you said is true.

 

[owen87]

I have refuted all your comments previously, citing AF experts etc, several times, after you have challenged mine.
You continue to make the same illogical, poorly conceived, claims- uncorroborated by any links etc. You are unable to dispute my many facts, links, citations etc., from AF experts, with any of your own independent sources.

You are now making ridiculous, & completely false & absurd, statements about my alleged desire for a semi-professional AFL etc. None of what you said is true.

I missed this the other week.

Quite simply, you've done none of the above.

You spam the same old links, out of context, complaining about the same old things, with no ability to convey your own opinion in your own words, or apply any form of reality to the commentary you're making.

I respect that you're a keen supporter of Women's Football, and appear to want it to genuinely grow, but your comments on how the game looks, feels and unfolds, is incredibly out of touch with reality and modern professional sport.

There's a reason not a single poster here supports your views on these things, no matter how much you quote Charter Of The Game documents that were never intended to support the argument you're trying to shoehorn it in to.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. https://netball.com.au/news/diamonds-shine-new-balance-apparel

The Aust. Diamonds will be wearing a "brand new vibrant Uniform" from Jan.2022.
From the teaser "limited" photo of the women's team (who are not wearing dresses, but shorts), it appears that the Netball Australia is continuing its move away from very short dresses.

Various NA officials have been stating in recent times that many females dislike wearing very short dresses, & it may be hurting their GR participation levels.

It is interesting to speculate how much of an issue this has been in GR netball?
And how much has this issue contributed to the growth of female GR AF?
If shorts now become the common uniform for GR females playing netball, will it hurt the strong growth of female GR AF?




2.

I missed this the other week.

Quite simply, you've done none of the above.

You spam the same old links, out of context, complaining about the same old things, with no ability to convey your own opinion in your own words, or apply any form of reality to the commentary you're making.

I respect that you're a keen supporter of Women's Football, and appear to want it to genuinely grow, but your comments on how the game looks, feels and unfolds, is incredibly out of touch with reality and modern professional sport.

There's a reason not a single poster here supports your views on these things, no matter how much you quote Charter Of The Game documents that were never intended to support the argument you're trying to shoehorn it in to.

Your comments are incorrect.

You want to ignore, without any validity, the AFL's Charter of the Game.
You also want to ignore, without any validity, the experts & the Charter's very strong proponents: the AFL Commission, multiple AFL Officials, AFL Vic. etc. (who have anti-congestion Rules in the U18 NAB League), & an overwhelming no. of MSM AFL experts etc.

Because you have no expert corroboration, your only "defense" is to resort to a very small no. of BF posters who might support your views (& some others support mine). This actually reinforces the strength of the points I have made- & exposes the fragility of your views: you can only find solace in a few anonymous posters on a social media platform!

As usual, you are unable to provide any expert links supporting the horrific congestion, record tackle/bump/push/collision etc. rates, & related record injuries. The injury consequences are dire for female (& male) AF.

As usual, you ignored my above post- with links by medical experts- on the very serious, high rate of breast injury & breast pain issues in female AF.
Prof. McGhee, above, said c. 48% of women suffered from these.
Just as you have similarly ignored other earlier links I provided, from medical experts, on the very high rates of serious knee injuries (up to 9 times) & concussions (c. double, cf males) in female AF.
Why do you not address these issues, when I put them to you? Are you not interested in these disturbingly very high female injury rates?

 

[owen87]

Your comments are incorrect.

You want to ignore, without any validity, the AFL's Charter of the Game.
You also want to ignore, without any validity, the experts & the Charter's very strong proponents: the AFL Commission, multiple AFL Officials, AFL Vic. etc. (who have anti-congestion Rules in the U18 NAB League), & an overwhelming no. of MSM AFL experts etc.

Because you have no expert corroboration, your only "defense" is to resort to a very small no. of BF posters who might support your views (& some others support mine). This actually reinforces the strength of the points I have made- & exposes the fragility of your views: you can only find solace in a few anonymous posters on a social media platform!

As usual, you are unable to provide any expert links supporting the horrific congestion, record tackle/bump/push/collision etc. rates, & related record injuries. The injury consequences are dire for female (& male) AF.

As usual, you ignored my above post- with links by medical experts- on the very serious, high rate of breast injury & breast pain issues in female AF.
Prof. McGhee, above, said c. 48% of women suffered from these.
Just as you have similarly ignored other earlier links I provided, from medical experts, on the very high rates of serious knee injuries (up to 9 times) & concussions (c. double, cf males) in female AF.
Why do you not address these issues, when I put them to you? Are you not interested in these disturbingly very high female injury rates?

As I said.

Incredibly out of touch with reality.

You take disparate pieces of information, then try to mash them together to support your preconcieved notion.

Ultimately, what you're demanding is an exhibition league, not a professional sport.

 

[BringBackTorps]

ACL injuries have, pleasingly, had a very significant decline ("at all-time low") in the 2021 AFLW.
The rate, per 1000 player hours in the 2021 AFLW was 3.22- in 2020, it was 8.83, 2019 5.14.

The raw no. of AFLW overall general injuries are, unfortunately, on the increase. With more AFLW games per season, however, raw no. increases may be inevitable- but pro rata per games played, the overall injuries have still had a big increase.
The overall injuries' incidence (no. of new injuries per club, per season) in the 2021 AFLW was 11.1- in 2020, it was 7.0, 2019 6.8.

The no. of missed matches per club in the 2021 AFLW was 36.7- in 2020, it was 24.4, 2019 17.8. This is another, pro rata of games, very big rise- & their season is short.

AFLW concussions are rising, per 1000 playing hours.
In 2021, 8.27- in 2020, 4.76.
An important mitigating factor is that there is a continuing more conservative approach to concussions/possible concussions now- so comparing previous years' rates of concussions has very limited efficacy.

AFLW Latest News - AFL.com.au/aflw

Latest breaking AFLW news from the official website of the Australian Football League.

www.womens.afl

It is a pity the article did not give reasons for the increases in injury rates (excluding ACL's; & concussions/new protocols) which are much greater, pro rata, than the increase in games.

I would like to see female injury rates, analyses etc. in GR female jnr & adult players

 

[BringBackTorps]

Sydney's North Shore FC is a behemoth in Aust. GR snr sports' clubs (any sport), with c. 480 regd. adult male & female players.

It started its first women's team in 2017- by 2019, it had 5 adult women's teams. It could probably form more, such is its allure in NS, but it has simply ran out of playing ovals in its Lower North Shore catchment.
(Many would say it is not healthy for any GR snr sport, that 1 club can attract so many players, cf its opponents: "spread the love").

P. Gurry has just been appointed NSFC's Head Of Women's Pathways- not a coaching role, but a specialist, discrete role to promote only GR adult female AF pathways for its club. AFAIK, this may be the first GR snr AF club in Aust. to have such a specialist, discrete role, only for female pathways.

There are simply too many areas & strategies for me to list on what P. Gurry/NSFC have formulated, to explain their success in female GR recruitment- particularly meritorious in the (once) "foreign to AF" climes of Sydney.

I will, however, note these points Gurry made on 29.11.21, re his motivation to create a female AF team for NSFC

"...build the type of camaraderie that comes with contact sport and share in the culture of a footy club was a huge attraction for me.

While our launch in late 2016 was a big success it was tough recruiting players through the preseason. My wife tells a story of me coming home from training in February 2017 very upset as numbers weren’t looking good. The AFLW then started and our numbers took off. From memory we had over 40 down to training the Thursday before our first game (all emphases mine)".

The psychological attractions of AF, mentioned above, for females playing AF, have universal application around Australia.

Peter Gurry takes on new position of Women's Pathways

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www.northshorefc.com.au

The Swans have a far greater profile in NSW than GWS- so the start of their first AFLW team in December 2022 is a harbinger for the increasing success of female AF, & a further boom in GR female nos. in NSW & ACT, that will follow their entry.

 

[BringBackTorps]

This is a very comprehensive Document from the AFL, which I have only recently discovered. It provides detailed Research on why females want to play AF, & how we can maximise female participation.

A small snapshot

" Fun: the 10 things girls want parents and coaches to know Girls are more likely to stay involved in sport if they receive quality coaching and supportive parents. It is crucial for the adults involved in girls’ sport to understand what they like and what they want from the coach, parents and their AFL experience. We list the 10 most important things that make AFL fun for young female footballers.

1. What fun means

2. Being in an all-girls group – why girls love hanging with girls

3. Socialising

4. Access to female role models

5. Listening to music

6. Ambition

7. Improve skills

8. Simply being able to play

9. Making their own decisions

10. Small-sided games



Let’s break down some of these ideas.

Fun Girls tell us that the No. 1 reason they play sport is to have fun with their friends. It is not about winning or claiming a premiership but simply about fun. Fun is often the first thing that gets lost in the delivery of sport to children. Coaches need to ask: “What do girls mean by ‘fun’? How do I keep my football sessions fun for the players?” If it’s not fun, then why are you doing it?

For young girls, ‘fun’ means:

Feeling connected to their teammates and coach – so let your players come up with a name for their group and provide times to chat

No waiting time during drills and games – girls want to be involved and get their hands on the ball frequently so they can improve

Being applauded for their efforts rather than for being the ‘best’.
Parents and coaches often talk about the fact that children’s sport needs to have a winner and a loser to reflect “real life”. However, kids know whether they win or lose a game, and there is nothing wrong with having a winner or loser in sport. When we talk to girls as to WHY they play sport, and WHY they keep returning to a sport, winning is simply not the motivator behind them playing sport. Being in an all-girls group Research tells us that girls feel safer being in an all-girls group to learn their football. By nature they are less competitive than boys, preferring to focus on skill development rather than winning.

Girls worry less about being teased about their football when in front of girls only

It exposes them to more female role models that are physically active. They tend to have a more-positive experience. This in turn allows girls to grow in confidence.
We encourage clubs to look at setting up an all-girls NAB AFL Auskick group within a mixed gender centre or, where a centre does not exist, establish an all-girls group. That way the specific learning needs of the girls will be well catered for, ensuring they have the best first experience of AFL.

Socialising Females enjoy a sense of connection to people so coaches should allow times for them to simply ‘have a chat’ and enjoy each other’s company.

Female role models Using female role models to help coach your girls or make guest appearances to meet the players exposes them to strong and confident women. This helps them be inspired and aspire to reach their potential.

Listening to music. Girls enjoy moving to music and singing along to popular tunes. The girls may even come up with a team song.
Coaches can incorporate music into their warm-ups and cool downs. Ask the girls for their playlist.

Ambition: meeting expectations Meeting expectations means understanding the differences between what the child wants to get out of NAB AFL Auskick and what you as a coach want to get out of the experience.

Then compare this with parent expectations. Work on bridging the gap between the three different groups of expectations. It’s also important for coaches to understand the differences between what they see as fun compared with what the girls see as fun – in most cases there is a large difference and it is often what leads to players dropping out.
Coaches (and parents) need to sit down with the girls and talk about expectations of their sport experience and what fun is for them, and try to bridge the gap that exists.

Improving their skills.
Girls are no different to boys when it comes to being challenged. It’s how coaches articulate the challenge where there is a difference. If you think the girls are playing to win, then you have missed the point. They want to improve their skills, so challenge them to use both sides of their body, run faster, jump higher, concentrate and be first-grab, clean ball-handlers.
Being able to play. A critical way to provide fun is through unstructured play. This means letting the girls enjoy their physical activity without a large set of rules or boundaries. This does not mean simply ‘playing the game’ all the time.

Small-sided games.
This means providing small-sided games for athletes to grow and develop their skills of the game. Coaching research, along with real-life examples, highlight the importance of small-sided games when it comes to developing the fundamentals of the game (Emphases are mine)".

https://websites.mygameday.app/get_file.cgi?id=36597150

 

[owen87]

This is a very comprehensive Document from the AFL, which I have only recently discovered. It provides detailed Research on why females want to play AF, & how we can maximise female participation.

A small snapshot

" Fun: the 10 things girls want parents and coaches to know Girls are more likely to stay involved in sport if they receive quality coaching and supportive parents. It is crucial for the adults involved in girls’ sport to understand what they like and what they want from the coach, parents and their AFL experience. We list the 10 most important things that make AFL fun for young female footballers.

1. What fun means

2. Being in an all-girls group – why girls love hanging with girls

3. Socialising

4. Access to female role models

5. Listening to music

6. Ambition

7. Improve skills

8. Simply being able to play

9. Making their own decisions

10. Small-sided games



Let’s break down some of these ideas.

Fun Girls tell us that the No. 1 reason they play sport is to have fun with their friends. It is not about winning or claiming a premiership but simply about fun. Fun is often the first thing that gets lost in the delivery of sport to children. Coaches need to ask: “What do girls mean by ‘fun’? How do I keep my football sessions fun for the players?” If it’s not fun, then why are you doing it?

For young girls, ‘fun’ means:

Feeling connected to their teammates and coach – so let your players come up with a name for their group and provide times to chat

No waiting time during drills and games – girls want to be involved and get their hands on the ball frequently so they can improve

Being applauded for their efforts rather than for being the ‘best’.
Parents and coaches often talk about the fact that children’s sport needs to have a winner and a loser to reflect “real life”. However, kids know whether they win or lose a game, and there is nothing wrong with having a winner or loser in sport. When we talk to girls as to WHY they play sport, and WHY they keep returning to a sport, winning is simply not the motivator behind them playing sport. Being in an all-girls group Research tells us that girls feel safer being in an all-girls group to learn their football. By nature they are less competitive than boys, preferring to focus on skill development rather than winning.

Girls worry less about being teased about their football when in front of girls only

It exposes them to more female role models that are physically active. They tend to have a more-positive experience. This in turn allows girls to grow in confidence.
We encourage clubs to look at setting up an all-girls NAB AFL Auskick group within a mixed gender centre or, where a centre does not exist, establish an all-girls group. That way the specific learning needs of the girls will be well catered for, ensuring they have the best first experience of AFL.

Socialising Females enjoy a sense of connection to people so coaches should allow times for them to simply ‘have a chat’ and enjoy each other’s company.

Female role models Using female role models to help coach your girls or make guest appearances to meet the players exposes them to strong and confident women. This helps them be inspired and aspire to reach their potential.

Listening to music. Girls enjoy moving to music and singing along to popular tunes. The girls may even come up with a team song.
Coaches can incorporate music into their warm-ups and cool downs. Ask the girls for their playlist.

Ambition: meeting expectations Meeting expectations means understanding the differences between what the child wants to get out of NAB AFL Auskick and what you as a coach want to get out of the experience.

Then compare this with parent expectations. Work on bridging the gap between the three different groups of expectations. It’s also important for coaches to understand the differences between what they see as fun compared with what the girls see as fun – in most cases there is a large difference and it is often what leads to players dropping out.
Coaches (and parents) need to sit down with the girls and talk about expectations of their sport experience and what fun is for them, and try to bridge the gap that exists.

Improving their skills.
Girls are no different to boys when it comes to being challenged. It’s how coaches articulate the challenge where there is a difference. If you think the girls are playing to win, then you have missed the point. They want to improve their skills, so challenge them to use both sides of their body, run faster, jump higher, concentrate and be first-grab, clean ball-handlers.
Being able to play. A critical way to provide fun is through unstructured play. This means letting the girls enjoy their physical activity without a large set of rules or boundaries. This does not mean simply ‘playing the game’ all the time.

Small-sided games.
This means providing small-sided games for athletes to grow and develop their skills of the game. Coaching research, along with real-life examples, highlight the importance of small-sided games when it comes to developing the fundamentals of the game (Emphases are mine)".

https://websites.mygameday.app/get_file.cgi?id=36597150

Most of this applies regardless of men or women I'd say, training should be fun for young people first and foremost. Hard work and fun aren't mutually exclusive either.

Also whoever wrote this one comes across as a real middle aged man.

Girls enjoy moving to music and singing along to popular tunes.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. E. Phillips said, re the current AFLW "injury crisis", that being full time in the AFLW would reduce the high rate of serious knee injuries.

Phillips said

"I honestly believe that ,when it does become a full-time role — I'm not saying that ACLs will never be a part of sport, that's just not how it works," she said.

"But I do feel very confident that, if girls were given the opportunity to play year-round and put the time and effort and money and practice into their body just being purely paid as an athlete, you've got to believe that there's going to be less injuries."

Phillips also wants the AFLW to start in October, so players can have full access to AFL clubs' expert personnel (including medical etc.), & facilities. The male AFL players would be away for 8 weeks.

'I couldn't breathe': Erin Phillips on AFLW's injury crisis and part-time demands

Erin Phillips is a two-time league best and fairest and she says that full-time professionalisation would allow for better player injury management.

www.abc.net.au

We will have to wait until this current season is much more advanced, before we can prognosticate on the rate of serious knee injuries in the 2022 AFLW- but the first Round is disturbing.

Being full time in the AFLW, however, would not reduce the very worrying, very high injury rates in female GR AF nos.




2.

Most of this applies regardless of men or women I'd say, training should be fun for young people first and foremost. Hard work and fun aren't mutually exclusive either.

Also whoever wrote this one comes across as a real middle aged man.

Anecdotally, it has been widely noted in GR AF clubs that female AF players are, generally, much more chatty amongst their female team mates, cf male players amongst their male team mates.

The above Document (I only quoted as small part from its 20 pages) is very comprehensive, & excellent. It would have been compiled from many contributors (male & female), who had much experience in female GR AF.

It is appropriate & necessary to listen to, & heed, the views of those with most experience & practical knowledge in AF- who, obviously, will come from persons in older demographics.
You should value acquired experience, wisdom, & expert knowledge.

 

[owen87]

You should value acquired experience, wisdom, & expert knowledge.

Sure.

But saying 'girls like to sing and dance to music' is really not experienced wisdom or expert knowledge.

I can only assume they're trying to explain to 65 year old Mick coaching the D-grade ammos side, how coaching teenage girls today might differ from when he was coached in his 20s.

 

[The_Wookie]

Anecdotally, it has been widely noted in GR AF clubs that female AF players are, generally, much more chatty amongst their female team mates, cf male players amongst their male team mates.

citation for that? Cause ive never heard such a thing ever.

The above Document (I only quoted as small part from its 20 pages) is very comprehensive, & excellent. It would have been compiled from many contributors (male & female), who had much experience in female GR AF.

It is appropriate & necessary to listen to, & heed, the views of those with most experience & practical knowledge in AF- who, obviously, will come from persons in older demographics.
You should value acquired experience, wisdom, & expert knowledge.

The document was designed as a guide to assist in the setup and operation of a female footy club. It is not presented nor should be misconstrued as a comprehensively reseached document.

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. Having many years of neglect/ mismanagement/underfunding from the VFL/AFL has caused GR & male elite AF in Tasmania to become moribund, & in decline. Tas. GR club male player comp. nos. have increased, however, in the last 3 years.

Female GR AF comp. nos., however, have been booming, from an original low base, in Tasmania in the last 3 years. Organic growth? Probably credit to the AFL is also warranted.

I consider it extraordinary that, in the 2021 NAB Girls League U19 comp., Tas. finished second. The Tas. girls are, I assume, not as well resourced etc. & AF "battle-hardened". There are another 12 teams from metro Melbourne & major regional towns in country Vic.

The NAB League will revert to girls' Under 16 & Under 18 comps. in 2022.

NAB League Girls 2022 fixture released: Next generation of women’s talent on show from this weekend

The 2022 NAB League Girls competition will commence earlier this year to more closely align to the NAB AFLW season

www.afl.com.au

This suggests that Tas.'s AF pedigree is still strong, & Tas. female GR, & elite female AF, will probably boom even further with proper pathways & much increased funding.
Female GR AF in Tas. represents a huge opportunity for the AFL- hopefully this gold mine can be cultivated, so it reaches its full potential.





2.

citation for that? Cause ive never heard such a thing ever.

There have been numerous studies from sociologists & psychologists that female speech patterns amongst females only (generalising, of course) reflect, noticeably, much more "Rapport/Empathy" behaviours; &, in contrast, male speech patterns amongst males only (generalising, of course) are more likely, in comparison, to reflect "Report/Task" behaviours.

The document was designed as a guide to assist in the setup and operation of a female footy club. It is not presented nor should be misconstrued as a comprehensively reseached document.

Why do you think the AFL 20 page document is not a "comprehensively researched document"?

Can you please provide any public documents from the AFL, re setting up GR female teams, that is more comprehensive than the one I linked?

 

[The_Wookie]

There have been numerous studies from sociologists & psychologists that female speech patterns amongst females only (generalising, of course) reflect, noticeably, much more "Rapport/Empathy" behaviours; &, in contrast, male speech patterns amongst males only (generalising, of course) are more likely, in comparison, to reflect "Report/Task" behaviours.

Thats all great, Im not sure. Not one sentence or word of that is a citation or reference. If there are numerous studies, let see some of them

Why do you think the AFL 20 page document is not a "comprehensively researched document"?

Its literally a club set up guide, isnt a peer reviewed or published documentation and supplies no references whatsoever.

Can you please provide any public documents from the AFL, re setting up GR female teams, that is more comprehensive than the one I linked?

Dont need to, you've already found the AFLs club setup guide for female teams. Whether or not there is one more comprehensive is irrelevant, this is not presented as a research document of any kind.

Can you supply anything anyone has ever asked you to on this forum?

 

[BringBackTorps]

1. This link provides 3 short videos (c. 1 minute each) of why two 50.y.o.+ women began playing AF (one brought to tears, as she said she wished these GR AF opportunities were available to her when she was much younger).

The other is from an Australian-Pakistani women who began to play, before even ever watching an AFL game.

Learn to play footy and play in an AFL women’s league! ⋆ This Girl Can – Victoria

Has the AFLW league inspired you to pick up a footy? You’re not alone! Many Victorian women are taking up Aussie Rules Football and having an absolute blast.

thisgirlcan.com.au

2.

Thats all great, Im not sure. Not one sentence or word of that is a citation or reference. If there are numerous studies, let see some of them

"Another view on the reason why women outperform men on empathy can be found in proximate mechanisms of empathy, like endocrine and neural differences between men and women. The masculine hormone testosterone is shown to inhibit empathy, while the feminine hormone oxytocin promotes empathic reactions to other".

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/27717381_Gender_differerence_in_human_empathy_Theories_on_the_Timbergen_four_why's

Its literally a club set up guide, isnt a peer reviewed or published documentation and supplies no references whatsoever.

The 20 page Document, on recruiting strategies for GR female club players, has been issued by the AFL, so it is authorative; with experts from GR AF.
It is very authorative, & should be given much weight.

Are there any strategies in it there that you disagree with- if so, what are your reasons?

 

[owen87]

1. This link provides 3 short videos (c. 1 minute each) of why two 50.y.o.+ women began playing AF (one brought to tears, as she said she wished these GR AF opportunities were available to her when she was much younger).

The other is from an Australian-Pakistani women who began to play, before even ever watching an AFL game.




2.


"Another view on the reason why women outperform men on empathy can be found in proximate mechanisms of empathy, like endocrine and neural differences between men and women. The masculine hormone testosterone is shown to inhibit empathy, while the feminine hormone oxytocin promotes empathic reactions to other".

27717381_Gender_differerence_in_human_empathy_Theories_on_the_Timbergen_four_why's




The 20 page Document, on recruiting strategies for GR female club players, has been issued by the AFL, so it is authorative; with experts from GR AF.
It is very authorative, & should be given much weight.

Are there any strategies in it there that you disagree with- if so, what are your reasons?

Did you bother to read The Wookie's post?

Not one sentence or word of that is a citation or reference

supplies no references whatsoever.

Can you supply anything anyone has ever asked you to on this forum?

Apparently he cannot.