Opinion Will either Carlton or Essendon be the bolter in 2022?

Which club is more likely to win another flag first?


  • Total voters
    314

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RobR

Mr Guinness
Sep 16, 2014
16,717
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What's precious? You shifting the goalposts every time you don't like something someone says? Moving them to something you can try to 'win'.

That's exactly the kind of thing people are discussing when they say replying to someone who spams this thread is a waste of time.
You never ever had a go at Fadge mate, is it because he always agreed with you?
 

owen87

Brownlow Medallist
Apr 23, 2016
20,354
26,181
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Essendon
You never ever had a go at Fadge mate, is it because he always agreed with you?

Fadge has 1/3 of the posts in this thread so I doubt I've seen as many of his comments. I'm sure I've argued with him elsewhere over things though.
 

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Yoda_

Hall of Famer
May 6, 2007
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How precious

I currently rate Shiel with better output, but both fully fit, Curnow with better xfactor, more valuable player

I rate Harrison Jones with better xfactor, more valuable player compared to Dow who currently has better output

Not that hard is it
I'll just leave this here which seems you've finally agreed to what we've been going around in circles for days about now.

I’d just like to reiterate my original point that Shiel’s best is better than Curnow’s on performance as evidenced by Shiel having an AA guernsey.

We can all agree that Curnow’s potential is elite but we haven’t seen it.

That was my original point. No hypothetical’s, no opinions. Facts.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RobR

Mr Guinness
Sep 16, 2014
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Carlton have the players to be a top 4 team. Just need direction and someone to bring them together and get them playing the right way. Thats why Voss is key. His performance this year is more important than any individual player imo.
Spot on mate, i hope that's what we need to make the eight.
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
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I'll just leave this here which seems you've finally agreed to what we've been going around in circles for days about now.

Still pissing? This started from you completely omitting Curnow in your player comparisons, then stated that Shiel was the better player, then backtracked to better output, then trying to justify it further by using individual awards. Mind blowing. And you still can't get the cherry picking right

What other crap comparisons do you want to undertake?
 

Yoda_

Hall of Famer
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No, the circle jerk started from you omitting Charlie and when challenged, decided to add the comparison to Shiel, who you had already mentioned in your initial so called summary of why Essendon are so much better than Carlton, get it yet?

Shiel is 29 start of next year, Charlie 25, so stating Shiel is better due to an AA at the age of 24, where Charlkie was injured for most of that time is highly flawed and another cherry pick, still with me?

Re read what that initial post said

I even dug it up for you.

Shiel's best is better than Charlie's. You can shift the goal posts as much as you like but I have maintained that right throughout
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
22,408
45,254
AFL Club
Carlton
t really isn't crap though. You seem to be in the minority that thinks Charlie's output is better than Dylan's.

This was my initial post when this round about circle jerk went. Now don't tell me I've shifted the goal posts. I have maintained all along that Dylan's exposed form (hence the AA Guernsey in 2016) is better than Charlie Curnow's.
When Shiel kicks 7 goals in a match you could say his best is the same as Charlie Curnow.
 

Yoda_

Hall of Famer
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When Shiel kicks 7 goals in a match you could say his best is the same as Charlie Curnow.

My extended point was the extension of time in which they have played at there best. Shiel literally has an All Australian. Curnow looks capable of doing so but hasn't yet done it.
 

JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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My extended point was the extension of time in which they have played at there best. Shiel literally has an All Australian. Curnow looks capable of doing so but hasn't yet done it.
Charlie hasn't played much over the last 3 years though has he- so the 'extension of time' phrase could be interpreted as a narrative convenience.
 

Yoda_

Hall of Famer
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Charlie hasn't played much over the last 3 years though has he- so the 'extension of time' phrase could be interpreted as a narrative convenience.
That was the basis of my point when sumising the players missing from each list. Curnow is cancelled out by Shiel, Doc is cancelled out by Hurley etc.


All guys who are more than capable of improving both sides significantly.



If we wish to be pedantic, we can cancel out Curnow (4 games) with Hurley (14 games) in the past two years whilst Shiel's (23 games) could be cancelled out by Docherety's (30 games) past two years.
 

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JustaBattler

Everyone Looks Better In Blue
May 31, 2012
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That was the basis of my point when sumising the players missing from each list. Curnow is cancelled out by Shiel, Doc is cancelled out by Hurley etc.


All guys who are more than capable of improving both sides significantly.



If we wish to be pedantic, we can cancel out Curnow (4 games) with Hurley (14 games) in the past two years whilst Shiel's (23 games) could be cancelled out by Docherety's (30 games) past two years.
It is a fair call and why all the sophistic banter disguised as discussion is just that
When Cripps or Walsh kicks 7 goals in a match you could say their best is the same as Peter Wright.
Exactly so.

SO if anyone is interested in actually discussing the OP thread title - literally...it was stated above..Essendon moving into top4 would be a genuine 'bolter' and Carlton moving into finals the same.
 

Bjchan13

Premiership Player
Jul 23, 2018
4,481
5,017
AFL Club
Essendon
Dons made the 8 in 2021 so unless they make it to top 4 it's not really a 'bolter'.
Agree, and i think most Essendon supporters are realistic that it isnt likely we jump into the top 4. Most would be happy to make the 8 again and have another crack at a final. Reasons for that are that we still have a coach early in his career trying to embed his own gameplan and culture, we still have a relatively young inexperienced list, and we would actually be breaking a pattern since 2017 of making finals then missing the next year. Also making finals with 11 wins doesnt happen very often so to make it this year would most likely require and couple of extra wins. Our draw should theoretically be harder due to finishing 8th last year and the competition in general is very even. % will be an indicator that a lot of our supporters will be hoping stays in the positive as well. I think 6th - 12th is our range.
 

Arr0w

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Nov 13, 2015
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That's what Curnow is capable of if he can just get a clean run

Been a while since a 21 year old KPF at Essendon has averaged 1.7 goals a game
 

Daine

Debutant
Aug 24, 2020
64
64
AFL Club
Essendon
The OP asks if 'Carlton more or less likely to see a return to on field success before Essendon do?'. My view is that Carlton has more question marks. New Coach, more injury prone players and worse depth. If Weitering is injured, who will be their KPDs? They have some good starting mids now such as Walsh, Cerra, Cripps and Hewett, but the depth looks ordinary to me.
Despite that, if some of their young players take the next step, and if they get more out of their injury prone players, it wouldn't surprise me if they surpass Essendon in the short term.
Longer term I would pick Essendon though, as our young developing players are significantly better imo. Draper, Cox, Perkins, Caldwell, Jones, Hobbs and Reid have all played around 20 games or less and have a lot of potential. I like the look of them a lot more than the equivalent Carlton players at a similar point in development, such as De Koning, Kemp, Stocker, Philp, Young, Honey and Motlop. But only time will tell.
 

WillHayward

Norm Smith Medallist
Suspended
Aug 13, 2018
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I think Carlton are ready to go now with their list age profile. Cerra is a big get. Should be aiming for top 5.

I really like what the Bombers have done with their list but they are a little younger overall with their talent.

Jones, Draper, Ridley, Parish, Reid are all very good and young.

Need both Hobbs and Caldwell to be good if they want to start to be legit contenders. This is still an unknown.

Could be still another year or two away.