Opinion Brian Cook - Carlton's rebuild still has a fair way to go

[Gralin]

Be interesting to see the proportion of posts on thread topic v just direct spam back at poster team supported (no relevance).

Turn on ignore, and thread is readable!!

It's certainly unusual when 1 poster is ~ three times as prolific as the next, who also is a Carlton supporter.

Especially when said prolific poster often appears to totally move goalposts or miss the point in their comments.

A lot of opposition supporters have their say so can he, right or wrong it will all be resolved by September.

I respond/challenge a poster's opinion with factual evidence, rather than "all sides can, except Carlton", is that moving goal posts?

Lets all move on to discussing the topic instead of each other please

 

[Gethelred]

Probably right. Hopefully for the necessary list cleansing at the Blues, Voss uses Boak and Butters as benchmarks. Neither may be A graders talent wise but are A+ for absolute commitment.

Working my way through the thread...

If you think that Boak and Butters aren't A grade talent wise, you need your head examined.

 

[owen87]

Lets all move on to discussing the topic instead of each other please

As a Buffalo Bills supporter you would say that...

 

[Gralin]

As a Buffalo Bills supporter you would say that...

 

[doppleganger]

If you can't handle a Carlton supporters opinion on a season that hasn't began yet maybe you should just forget the ignore button and find another thread where it's only your opinion that counts.

??
More than happy to discuss differences of opinion on projection for Carlton 2022, and engage with them.

Stopped engaging with those who only want to reply based on team supported, for me Collingwood.

My opinion is that 2022 will be a consolidation year - will take Voss time to make significant change, Hewett and Cerra good steps in the right direction. But mistakes from past, underwhelming draft picks and mature recruits (won't list then all again), which IMHO have left Carlton's list still skinny and reliant on too few, will prevent any breakout in 2022.

I don't see Essendon jumping up to top4 year either, but they will finish above Carlton as they have a stronger and deeper list heading into 2022.

 

[Yoda_]

??
More than happy to discuss differences of opinion on projection for Carlton 2022, and engage with them.

Stopped engaging with those who only want to reply based on team supported, for me Collingwood.

My opinion is that 2022 will be a consolidation year - will take Voss time to make significant change, Hewett and Cerra good steps in the right direction. But mistakes from past, underwhelming draft picks and mature recruits (won't list then all again), which IMHO have left Carlton's list still skinny and reliant on too few, will prevent any breakout in 2022.

I don't see Essendon jumping up to top4 year either, but they will finish above Carlton as they have a stronger and deeper list heading into 2022.

People in here don't like predictions though

 

[Arr0w]

I predict that Essendon & Carlton will have similar output, 11-13 wins, due to the belief they have similar overall quality

 

[JustaBattler]

I predict that trolling in threads like this will continue for ever and ever and ever...

 

[The_MCG]

I predict that Essendon & Carlton will have similar output, 11-13 wins, due to the belief they have similar overall quality

I can see this happening as well.
Not sure i'd be putting my house on either one of them making finals in 2022.

 

[White Dogg]

You've forgotten how easily Carlton put Essendon away last season.

Selective memory me thinks.

Imagine if we had Voss coaching instead?! Would have belted the Bombers by 10 goals.

Teague did his best to lose it in the opening half.

It's about the players/list, history shows coaches are only as good as the list they have available to them

Michael Voss getting another job as senior coach just shows how hard Carlton had to scrape the bottom of the barrel searching for a new coach. Carlton right now are exactly where Richmond were at 1999 off season/2000 pre season.

No coach wanted to touch Richmond with a 10 foot pole back then due to their senior coach revolving door and no coach wanted to touch Carlton with a 10 foot pole when they were looking for a senior coach recently. Richmond had to scrape the bottom of the barrel really hard for Danny Frawley to get a job as a senior coach much like Carlton had to do with Voss.

Carlton better hope and pray Voss isn't a flop, because either way they'll be stuck with him for 5 years much like how Richmond were stuck with Frawley for 5 years. Although Frawley took Richmond to a preliminary final and the odds of Voss taking Carlton to a preliminary final in the next 5 years are about 500 to 1.

 

[BLUEALLTHRU]

Michael Voss getting another job as senior coach just shows how hard Carlton had to scrape the bottom of the barrel searching for a new coach. Carlton right now are exactly where Richmond were at 1999 off season/2000 pre season.

No coach wanted to touch Richmond with a 10 foot pole back then due to their senior coach revolving door and no coach wanted to touch Carlton with a 10 foot pole when they were looking for a senior coach recently. Richmond had to scrape the bottom of the barrel really hard for Danny Frawley to get a job as a senior coach much like Carlton had to do with Voss.

Carlton better hope and pray Voss isn't a flop, because either way they'll be stuck with him for 5 years much like how Richmond were stuck with Frawley for 5 years. Although Frawley took Richmond to a preliminary final and the odds of Voss taking Carlton to a preliminary final in the next 5 years are about 500 to 1.

 

[JustaBattler]

Michael Voss getting another job as senior coach just shows how hard Carlton had to scrape the bottom of the barrel searching for a new coach. Carlton right now are exactly where Richmond were at 1999 off season/2000 pre season.

No coach wanted to touch Richmond with a 10 foot pole back then due to their senior coach revolving door and no coach wanted to touch Carlton with a 10 foot pole when they were looking for a senior coach recently. Richmond had to scrape the bottom of the barrel really hard for Danny Frawley to get a job as a senior coach much like Carlton had to do with Voss.

Carlton better hope and pray Voss isn't a flop, because either way they'll be stuck with him for 5 years much like how Richmond were stuck with Frawley for 5 years. Although Frawley took Richmond to a preliminary final and the odds of Voss taking Carlton to a preliminary final in the next 5 years are about 500 to 1.

Right now Essendon are exactly where they have been for over 6300 days - nowhere

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Essendon did have very easy double ups, but we also travelled interstate or to Geelong eleven times, vs only five times for the blues. Big difference there. You also only had one double up against a top 8 team (Giants), so not exactly difficult either.
Our two worst losses were to Power (54) and Brisbane (57) away early in the season (we were poor early in the season with only two wins from the first eight games). In the game against Brisbane we had 12 players with under 50 games experience, vs four for Brisbane. In fact Brisbane's players averaged 112 games vs only 68 for us. No shame for a young and inexperienced team to lose badly against top 4 teams away.
Your worst losses were against Power by 95 points (Ouch!) and North Melbourne by 39. North only won three other games, with the highest margin being a 10 point victory. You had the worst performance against the wooden spooners by far.

It is also true that we only won against a top 8 side once (Bulldogs). However we did have close losses to Sydney (3 and 7 points) Giants (2) and Demons (11).
You only had one win vs a top 8 side too - Essendon, the weakest team in the top 8. The closest you got against any other top 8 side was 14 points.

Well you better hope you finish higher after all of that. Seems there's no excuses for your mob now

 

[Yoda_]

Well you better hope you finish higher after all of that. Seems there's no excuses for your mob now

Uhh, another unhinged Carlton supporter with Essendon living rent free in there head

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Uhh, another unhinged Carlton supporter with Essendon living rent free in there head

Unhinged? Oh that's right, Shiel is better than Charlie Curnow when both at their best. Now that's rent free in the head

 

[Yoda_]

Unhinged? Oh that's right, Shiel is better than Charlie Curnow when both at their best. Now that's rent free in the head

One an All Australian at his best, the other not even in the AA squad in a niche position

 

[HereComesJuddy]

One an All Australian at his best, the other not even in the AA squad in a niche position

This is just too funny now. Thanks for the comedy gold.

 

[Yoda_]

This is just too funny now. Thanks for the comedy gold.

Facts are facts


You're welcome

 

[Ambrosia]

Unhinged? Oh that's right, Shiel is better than Charlie Curnow when both at their best. Now that's rent free in the head

Shiels best season >>> Curnow’s best season don’t see how you can argue otherwise.

I mean you can try and turn it around to who’s best in a single game but almost every AFL player is capable of a blinder.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Shiels best season >>> Curnow’s best season don’t see how you can argue otherwise.

I mean you can try and turn it around to who’s best in a single game but almost every AFL player is capable of a blinder.

Again, you should have no issue finishing higher than Carlton. No excuses

 

[Arr0w]

Judging players on AA, seen it all

 

[La Dispute]

I reckon Truck Rutten will be the man to snap Essendon’s 7000 day losing streak.

Bookmark it.

 

[Ambrosia]

Again, you should have no issue finishing higher than Carlton. No excuses

Based on the rating of one player? I’ve been pretty clear that I see the two sides at a similar level.

Heck other pro Carlton opinions I have:

- McKay is a top 5 player in the game

- I’m bullish on McGovern, Martin and Williams turning it around

- I think Saad was better at Essendon and will regain that form under Voss

- I think Fisher and Cunningham assuming they stay fit could give Carlton a point of difference off the HFF/rotating mid next year

- I’m very open to the idea of Cripps getting back to his best

- Cerra will likely be a steal at the price Carlton paid.

- TDK is too big, skillful and athletic not to make it as a ruckman.

- Hewett a defensive minded player who has shown the ability to play a variety of roles well fits perfectly.

Plenty to like at Carlton doesn’t change the fact Curnow has never put together a full year of quality football.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

Based on the rating of one player? I’ve been pretty clear that I see the two sides at a similar level.

Heck other pro Carlton opinions I have:

- McKay is a top 5 player in the game

- I’m bullish on McGovern, Martin and Williams turning it around

- I think Saad was better at Essendon and will regain that form under Voss

- I think Fisher and Cunningham assuming they stay fit could give Carlton a point of difference off the HFF/rotating mid next year

- I’m very open to the idea of Cripps getting back to his best

- Cerra will likely be a steal at the price Carlton paid.

- TDK is too big, skillful and athletic not to make it as a ruckman.

- Hewett a defensive minded player who has shown the ability to play a variety of roles well fits perfectly.

Plenty to like at Carlton doesn’t change the fact Curnow has never put together a full year of quality football.

You might be right. Injuries have prevented him from hitting the peaks most throughout the football world thought he would.

34 goals in only his 3rd year is a pretty good year. Maybe it wasn't quality enough in your opinion for a 21 year old in a team that won only 2 games that year.

I know who I'd be choosing I'm my team out of the 2 players for the next few years

 

[Ambrosia]

You might be right. Injuries have prevented him from hitting the peaks most throughout the football world thought he would.

34 goals in only his 3rd year is a pretty good year. Maybe it wasn't quality enough in your opinion for a 21 year old in a team that won only 2 games that year.

I know who I'd be choosing I'm my team out of the 2 players for the next few years

None of his potential shown is relevant to the discussion though.

I mean Cripps best has been clearly better then Walsh’s but everyone would take Walsh ahead of Cripps

I’d probably take Curnow going forward as well given his age and pre injury form but that wasn’t what was argued. If you confine it down who’s going to be better in 2022 I’d probably take the safe bet in Shiel.