Will Europe move towards Centrism instead of the Far Right?

[Lethality]

The growing split between the left and right, the folly of mass immigration, the unravelling of the EU. Rather than looking to the likes of Trump and Wilders, could people start to gravitate towards pragmatists like France's independent candidate, Emmanuel Macron?

I personally hope they do, and we see this change in America as well.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38871095

The centrist candidate shaking up the French presidential campaign has vowed to unite the nation and boost ties with Germany in a major speech.

Emmanuel Macron also promised to boost defence spending when he spoke to a crowd in the eastern city of Lyon.

The former Socialist economy minister set up his own party only last year.

Opinion polls suggest he may face off with the far right's Marine Le Pen, who is to deliver a keynote speech on Sunday, in the second round of voting.

Her National Front (FN) party began a two-day rally, also in Lyon, to promote its manifesto, which promises to restore French sovereignty over the country's budget, borders, money and laws.

However, the party dropped a former pledge to restore the death penalty.

The French go to the polls on 23 April in one of the most open races in decades, with the incumbent Socialist President, Francois Hollande, declining to stand for a second term.

 

[WA ROO]

Any move away from the current status quo will be labelled Far Right Fascism

 

[ClokesShankedIt]

Any politican who does not wish to extend the European welfare state to the entire third world populace will be labelled a vicious neo nazi. Apparently this policy is the sensible center.

 

[The Speaker]

there is no left, centre or right

 

[Power Raid]

The rise of the right is quite worrisome. I can see the extremes both left and right rising, creating a huge divide. This is also evident in the US.

This makes for uncertain times ahead unless we can move back to the centre and fast.

 

[The Speaker]

The rise of the right is quite worrisome. I can see the extremes both left and right rising, creating a huge divide. This is also evident in the US.

This makes for uncertain times ahead unless we can move back to the centre and fast.

liberalism is not a centre ground

 

[Maggie5]

liberalism is not a centre ground

Think you are right in your assessment of left/right etc.

Was half listening to BBC World last night and they were playing old recording by Studs Terkel (I think) and it wasn't until he started giving his definition of Liberalism and Conservatism that I tuned in (was reading at the same time).

Thought to my self, gee I am a little bit of both they way he explained it yet never considered it before.

Sadly the radio was on timer and by the time I switched it back on he had gone onto something else.

Trying to re-listen on BBC site but won't work for some reason.

 

[Malifice]

The growing split between the left and right, the folly of mass immigration, the unravelling of the EU. Rather than looking to the likes of Trump and Wilders, could people start to gravitate towards pragmatists like France's independent candidate, Emmanuel Macron?

I personally hope they do, and we see this change in America as well.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38871095

The centrist candidate shaking up the French presidential campaign has vowed to unite the nation and boost ties with Germany in a major speech.

Emmanuel Macron also promised to boost defence spending when he spoke to a crowd in the eastern city of Lyon.

The former Socialist economy minister set up his own party only last year.

Opinion polls suggest he may face off with the far right's Marine Le Pen, who is to deliver a keynote speech on Sunday, in the second round of voting.

Her National Front (FN) party began a two-day rally, also in Lyon, to promote its manifesto, which promises to restore French sovereignty over the country's budget, borders, money and laws.

However, the party dropped a former pledge to restore the death penalty.

The French go to the polls on 23 April in one of the most open races in decades, with the incumbent Socialist President, Francois Hollande, declining to stand for a second term.

He's a social liberal. In the Hawke/ Blair mold.

Mirrors my own political position.

 

[Malifice]

Any politican who does not wish to extend the European welfare state to the entire third world populace will be labelled a vicious neo nazi. Apparently this policy is the sensible center.

Three posts in and you've already resorted to hyperbole.

 

[Lebbo73]

Three posts in and you've already resorted to hyperbole.

It isn't hyperbole, Mal. It is being realistic.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

The growing split between the left and right, the folly of mass immigration, the unravelling of the EU. Rather than looking to the likes of Trump and Wilders, could people start to gravitate towards pragmatists like France's independent candidate, Emmanuel Macron?

I personally hope they do, and we see this change in America as well.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38871095

The centrist candidate shaking up the French presidential campaign has vowed to unite the nation and boost ties with Germany in a major speech.

Emmanuel Macron also promised to boost defence spending when he spoke to a crowd in the eastern city of Lyon.

The former Socialist economy minister set up his own party only last year.

Opinion polls suggest he may face off with the far right's Marine Le Pen, who is to deliver a keynote speech on Sunday, in the second round of voting.

Her National Front (FN) party began a two-day rally, also in Lyon, to promote its manifesto, which promises to restore French sovereignty over the country's budget, borders, money and laws.

However, the party dropped a former pledge to restore the death penalty.

The French go to the polls on 23 April in one of the most open races in decades, with the incumbent Socialist President, Francois Hollande, declining to stand for a second term.

Trump is going to be a lightning rod for all the anti-intellectual, emotion based, racist, stupid, backwards thinkers to finally be shut down in the US. They are going to lurch hard to the left after this. The youth are massively against him almost universally.

Europe might get more nationalist for a while, and when it proves not to work civil strife will follow.

Centrism isn't really a thing, you need to be more specific in what kind of politics you mean.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

The rise of the right is quite worrisome. I can see the extremes both left and right rising, creating a huge divide. This is also evident in the US.

This makes for uncertain times ahead unless we can move back to the centre and fast.

I disagree.

A war of ideas is a good thing. We can have a look and see if far right politics and economics can do anything to solve the issues of the modern economy, likewise for the left.

 

[Malifice]

It isn't hyperbole, Mal. It is being realistic.

No dude, its hyperbole.

'Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally'

Unless you think Clokeshankedit meant 'Any politican who does not wish to extend the European welfare state to the entire third world populace will be labelled a vicious neo nazi. Apparently this policy is the sensible center' literally.

 

[Power Raid]

I disagree.

A war of ideas is a good thing. We can have a look and see if far right politics and economics can do anything to solve the issues of the modern economy, likewise for the left.

Huge divide creates barriers rather than communication. Even the media they read is different further cementing divide.


FTR I absolutely believe the medium term future will be a very capitalist with very socialist elements. Being the blended left right concept.

I just don't think that debate can be facilitated healthily by the electorate with such divide. It will take a massive war to unite, as evidenced in the past.


Oh and talking from a global perspective (India, Russia, china and US) rather than Oz.

 

[Lethality]

Centrism isn't really a thing, you need to be more specific in what kind of politics you mean.

In politics, centrism or the center is a political outlook or specific position that involves acceptance or support of a balance of a degree of social equality and a degree of social hierarchy; while opposing political changes which would result in a significant shift of society either strongly to the left or the right ...

 

[VineyIsLORD]

In politics, centrism or the center is a political outlook or specific position that involves acceptance or support of a balance of a degree of social equality and a degree of social hierarchy; while opposing political changes which would result in a significant shift of society either strongly to the left or the right ...

So in real terms, what kind of politics are centrist?

You can explain it from an Australian perspective if that makes it easier.

 

[Lethality]

So in real terms, what kind of politics are centrist?

You can explain it from an Australian perspective if that makes it easier.

Might be someone like a Malcolm Turnbull.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Might be someone like a Malcolm Turnbull.

I was really thinking policy wise, rather than personalities (because as Mal has proven, people will often say they are one thing, and then completely change their mind once the realities of government hit)

 

[The Speaker]

Trump is going to be a lightning rod for all the anti-intellectual, emotion based, racist, stupid, backwards thinkers to finally be shut down in the US. They are going to lurch hard to the left after this. The youth are massively against him almost universally.

Europe might get more nationalist for a while, and when it proves not to work civil strife will follow.

Centrism isn't really a thing, you need to be more specific in what kind of politics you mean.

It seems quite likely that socialism and conservatism will both take back the votes that liberalism stole from them over the last few decades, on the back of the falsehood of liberalism being a middle ground between the two.

 

[Lethality]

I was really thinking policy wise, rather than personalities (because as Mal has proven, people will often say they are one thing, and then completely change their mind once the realities of government hit)

Even with regards to policy, he's all over the political spectrum, remaining reasonably tough on immigration, and welfare, while being good on sustainable energy and multiculturalism.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

It seems quite likely that socialism and conservatism will both take back the votes that liberalism stole from them over the last few decades, on the back of the falsehood of liberalism being a middle ground between the two.

I think there's also generational politics at play.

The youth are outnumbered and outresourced, there's a whole generation that has grown up thinking revolution, violence, terror etc is completely normal and they are also completely hopeless about their own futures and feel exploited by the economic system. Something has to give.

The stylish hipster s**t is done, revolutions are the new cool thing.

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Even with regards to policy, he's all over the political spectrum, remaining reasonably tough on immigration, and welfare, while being good on sustainable energy and multiculturalism.

Well see if you're talking about what Malcolm said, and let voters to believe at one point, sure. He's a classical liberal with a penchant for helping out the top end of town. He's basically Bill Clinton.

But as a leader? He's incredibly right wing, one of the most right wing PM's Australia has ever had. And yet his party still don't think he is right wing enough because they've at least begun to dip their toes in the fascist wading pool.

 

[Lethality]

But as a leader? He's incredibly right wing, one of the most right wing PM's Australia has ever had. And yet his party still don't think he is right wing enough because they've at least begun to dip their toes in the fascist wading pool.

Is this at all a reference to that claim that by maintaining a civil relationship with President Trump he is enabling fascism?

 

[VineyIsLORD]

Is this at all a reference to that claim that by maintaining a civil relationship with President Trump he is enabling fascism?

Nothing to do with Trump at all.

 

[Seeds]

Any move away from the current status quo will be labelled Far Right Fascism

Ridiculous comment. Do you honestly think the only alternative to the current form of government is one that rejects knowledge, is scared of foreigners and wants society to return to fictional nineteen fifties land? A major overhaul of western politics is needed but the populist movements is definitely not the answer. The current system with all its flaws is better than that option.