Will we miss finals?

hey shorty

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People tried to argue the same thing about the Geelong game

Perth is a tough road trip and on present form there's no way in hell we're winning there.
In their present form we are a chance. Not saying we will, but we definetly can.
 

Slippery Pete

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1) Lost the best player in the competition.

2) Introduced McGovern, Lever, Milera, Atkins and Greenwood into our best 22.

3) Have won 25 out of 35 minor round matches and 1 out of 2 finals. Only one team has won more games since THE MAESTRO started. GWS has won 26 out of 35 minor round matches.

4) We are the ONLY club with NO top ten draft picks.


Heard it all before. It's the same fortune cookie wisdom we've been using to measure ourselves for the last 20 years.

Show me the levels, Kramer. Show me the finals wins. Everything else is lip service.
 

hey shorty

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Heard it all before. It's the same fortune cookie wisdom we've been using to measure ourselves for the last 20 years.

Show me the levels, Kramer. Show me the finals wins. Everything else is lip service.
The question posed is will we make finals..... We will.

We won't win anything though so the question should be, do we want to.
 
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"You guys need to relaaax" Crows will still make top 4.

That wasn't a bad loss to have at this point of the season because it more than anything highlighted a weakness in the coaches box and they are easier to fix than on field issues

Besides, we've had a habit of kick starting good form this year. West Coast went on to win 3 in a row after we beat them and look how Melbourne and Sydney have been doing the past couple of months....
 

Big Gazoongas

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I appreciate the frustration of genuine Crow fans like yourself. I can't remember being more deflated and frustrated than Thursday night, possible the Eagles game in round 23 last year.

We can argue about the last 20 years but THE MAESTRO has been in charge for 35 games plus 2 finals. During this time we have

1) Lost the best player in the competition.

2) Introduced McGovern, Lever, Milera, Atkins and Greenwood into our best 22.

3) Have won 25 out of 35 minor round matches and 1 out of 2 finals. Only one team has won more games since THE MAESTRO started. GWS has won 26 out of 35 minor round matches.

4) We are the ONLY club with NO top ten draft picks.

I still have faith that we will be in the mix come September.

I do enjoy reading what you post theses days and the points you make are fair.

HOWEVER up to Thursdays game we positioned ourselves to challenge for top 2 and we've gone a long way to throwing that away with performances from coach and players as we saw Thursday night.

If we dont make the top 2 for me its a failure.

If we go with and persist with the same tactical stupidity we have seen in our loses this year and bomb out again in September I'll go as far as to say we need to get a new coach.

Having a great win loss record means nothing if we dont make it count in September.

As i said like what you post :thumbsu:
 
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"You guys need to relaaax" Crows will still make top 4.

That wasn't a bad loss to have at this point of the season because it more than anything highlighted a weakness in the coaches box and they are easier to fix than on field issues

Besides, we've had a habit of kick starting good form this year. West Coast went on to win 3 in a row after we beat them and look how Melbourne and Sydney have been doing the past couple of months....
It's not a random loss in isolation. 4 losses in 7 games is not good preparation for a single thing.
 

Huntercrow

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"You guys need to relaaax" Crows will still make top 4.

That wasn't a bad loss to have at this point of the season because it more than anything highlighted a weakness in the coaches box and they are easier to fix than on field issues

Besides, we've had a habit of kick starting good form this year. West Coast went on to win 3 in a row after we beat them and look how Melbourne and Sydney have been doing the past couple of months....
Haha what would a Hawks supporter know about weak coaches;)
 

Jack is Back

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All fair points when discussing what he's achieved but none of that addresses:

1) Inability of the team to counter pressure football which will only be ramped up in the finals

2) Inflexibility and stubbornness of his coaching

3) Poor selections

4) Lack of midfield talent

5) Losing 4 out of our last 7 games, see points 1,2,3 and 4 for the reasons why.

- In modern footy teams have to evolve, not just from season to season but during the season. The one positive in our mid-season slump is that we can't kid ourself that we will cruise into the finals. We need to adjust to the tactics that have stopped our run but we have time to sort this out. We have won high pressure matches over the last season and a half but not enough.

- I don't accept that our tactics are inflexible. Plenty of changes have been made during our 4 losses but they have not turned things around. We have been in strife in quite a few of the matches that we won (easily) and we turned things around.

- Selection decisions have had very little impact. I would have brought Greenwood into the team earlier and dropped Mackay earlier. Andy Otten was a revelation a month ago now we should never have played him? I totally agree that we have been too slow in attack but that will change when Shooter returns. I think we have better options than Kelly but he has played his role. Some want to drop Douglas but he has played some good games.
Basically 18-19 players are certain starters if they are fit and their form doesn't drop too much. Our selection arguments are all about the last three selected and no one ( not even Mackay) has been consistently poor. Our form slump is mostly about our best players underperforming.

- Rory was Brownlow favourite a few weeks ago. The Crouches are amongst the best young midfielders in the league and THE MIGHTY THOR has been a revelation. We have two inexperienced outside mids (Atkins and Milera) who will be very good footballers. My main issue is playing Douglas in the guts at the start of most quarters. I would prefer to play him mostly off half back. We also need another good outside mid/running defender, it's time for the SEED!

- We have no certain wins in our last 9 matches but they are all winnable. If we finish in the top 4 / top 2 then we will have had a great preparation for the finals.
 

Elite Crow

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- In modern footy teams have to evolve, not just from season to season but during the season. The one positive in our mid-season slump is that we can't kid ourself that we will cruise into the finals. We need to adjust to the tactics that have stopped our run but we have time to sort this out. We have won high pressure matches over the last season and a half but not enough.

- I don't accept that our tactics are inflexible. Plenty of changes have been made during our 4 losses but they have not turned things around. We have been in strife in quite a few of the matches that we won (easily) and we turned things around.

- Selection decisions have had very little impact. I would have brought Greenwood into the team earlier and dropped Mackay earlier. Andy Otten was a revelation a month ago now we should never have played him? I totally agree that we have been too slow in attack but that will change when Shooter returns. I think we have better options than Kelly but he has played his role. Some want to drop Douglas but he has played some good games.
Basically 18-19 players are certain starters if they are fit and their form doesn't drop too much. Our selection arguments are all about the last three selected and no one ( not even Mackay) has been consistently poor. Our form slump is mostly about our best players underperforming.

- Rory was Brownlow favourite a few weeks ago. The Crouches are amongst the best young midfielders in the league and THE MIGHTY THOR has been a revelation. We have two inexperienced outside mids (Atkins and Milera) who will be very good footballers. My main issue is playing Douglas in the guts at the start of most quarters. I would prefer to play him mostly off half back. We also need another good outside mid/running defender, it's time for the SEED!

- We have no certain wins in our last 9 matches but they are all winnable. If we finish in the top 4 / top 2 then we will have had a great preparation for the finals.
Do you think starting the bounces with 4 forwards and being continually outnumbered up forward is working? He doesn't change it though.

We were too slow on the weekend with our four talls and Beech. He dropped a runner to make that happen. That's on him.

Sloane was Brownlow favourite before being tagged now he's next to useless. I'm embarrassed for him. I'm embarrassed that Don has not instructed his teammates to step in and help.

Our midfield is developing but it's not up with the best in the comp.

And finally, it is on Don that he hasn't got the team playing manic, hard tough football that will stand up in finals.

We play nice and what do they say about nice guys?
 

Mike Smyth

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Not sure I can handle another "disappointing finals loss". Would prefer to finish out of the 8 and then come back when we are really ready to succeed in finals.
 

Rave Slave

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1) Lost the best player in the competition.

2) Introduced McGovern, Lever, Milera, Atkins and Greenwood into our best 22.

3) Have won 25 out of 35 minor round matches and 1 out of 2 finals. Only one team has won more games since THE MAESTRO started. GWS has won 26 out of 35 minor round matches.

4) We are the ONLY club with NO top ten draft picks.

These get me. I hear them from the more conservative types all the time so excuse my vitriol (particularly towards number 4)

1) Correct. We lost the best player in the comp.

We would've got 2 top 10 players from another club in return that would slot straight into our starting lineup, or at least one star right? Maybe a top 5 draft pick?

We lose players all the time. We never get fairy compensated. What are we doing about this? From my observations, sweet F.A.

This isn't an excuse, it's an indictment on our recruiting and player management given the startling regularity it happens to us.

2) We introduced players we drafted to play in our lineup? Is that seriously something to beat our chests over? Newsflash: 17 other clubs introduce players they've drafted each and every year. I'd say at least 50% of them do it better than we do.

3) How many Grand Final appearances in that time? I'd happily take 18 wins out of 35 and the 8th best record if by some miracle those wins had resulted in a GF appearance. But they didn't.

4) This one. This is the one that gets me. Grinds me to ******* tears. Crows fans that wear this like a badge of honour.

'We did what we did with NO TOP TEN PICKS'

We sure did! And guess what? We're currently on the second longest Grand Final drought with the only team who's waited longer being the laughing stock of the competition and with a history of * ups.

Our ability to avoid top ten draft picks has reaped zero fruit and if that's the direct outcome from doing what we've done then we absolutely need to change our strategy. This mentality that 'you've gotta be in it to win it' is wrong. History shows we've made finals a lot and we've always made up the numbers.

I don't care how we achieve it, our club needs to find a way to access the top line talent available in the draft.

This won't happen until our administration admits its failings. Which means it simply won't happen.
 

Jack is Back

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Do you think starting the bounces with 4 forwards and being continually outnumbered up forward is working? He doesn't change it though.

We were too slow on the weekend with our four talls and Beech. He dropped a runner to make that happen. That's on him.

Sloane was Brownlow favourite before being tagged now he's next to useless. I'm embarrassed for him. I'm embarrassed that Don has not instructed his teammates to step in and help.

Our midfield is developing but it's not up with the best in the comp.

And finally, it is on Don that he hasn't got the team playing manic, hard tough football that will stand up in finals.

We play nice and what do they say about nice guys?

Andy Otten played the "McLovin" role......poorly. Was it a good decision to give Mitch more time in the Twos? We will never know but I would have played him.

Beech or Knight? I have been a big fan of Riley Knight but he has had a disrupted season and Jono deserved a second game.

Which midfielder in the Twos is demanding selection? Thommo? Mackay? Unfortunately Wigg has been a bit inconsistent and Gallucci, Poholke, Gore do not seem ready to go.

Our 8/6/4 formation at centre clearances is a result of our poor record in centre clearances. Despite the crap on the media, we did not play two extra men in defence all night ( and neither did the Hawks). We won most stats (clearances, inside 50s, contested ball) but we failed to hit targets, particularly in the F50.

We played like pussies, the Hawks were hard, tough and manic yet we won the contested ball. It's all about perception, many people expected an easy win (not me, refer to my pregame comments) and a loss was extremely disappointing but all is not lost and things can change very quickly.
 
Does anything grate more than hearing the direct result of the club's long term and unchanged policy (no top 10 draft picks as the result of continually shooting for 6th to 8th) used explain why we can't succeed?

If that's the reason we can't succeed thats an indictment on our planning not a badge of honour.
 
"You guys need to relaaax" Crows will still make top 4.

That wasn't a bad loss to have at this point of the season because it more than anything highlighted a weakness in the coaches box and they are easier to fix than on field issues

Besides, we've had a habit of kick starting good form this year. West Coast went on to win 3 in a row after we beat them and look how Melbourne and Sydney have been doing the past couple of months....

Look mate, I know you mean well but please don't patronise us. We're not watching our team for the first time.

That wasnt a one off loss that demonstrates a problem that's likely to be fixed. It's a fourth recurrence of the same problem, and indicative of an inability or unwillingness to fix.

Different beasts.
 

CrowBloke

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Dad thinks we need to get either Bass or Goody. Goody wanted to coach away from Adelaide to do his apprenticeship. He has done that and looking extremely good at Melbourne. Could we entice him home.
I think either/both would be excellent gets.
Goodwin as Head Coach, Bassett as defensive Coach
OR
Bassett as Head Coach, Goodwin as midfield coach (<== very unlikely, I doubt that Goody would go for that)
BUT
PA and the Dees won't be keen to lose them.
No chance we miss the top 8.
I doubt we will drop out of the top 4.
We will make the Top 4.
We will make the top 2.
WOW, both bold and optimistic predictions. I just did that Ladder predictor thing, twice, and got Adelaide finishing either 6th or 9th, which leads to
==>
If we dont make the top 2 for me its a failure.

After 6-0 and 9-3, I'd have thought Top 4 at least. Thursday night's loss has filled me with doubts.
We'll see.
Crows aside, it's a fascinating season. How about the Sydney and Dees wins, this round? Enthralling. I'd love to see our blokes win a few like that.
 

CrowBloke

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- In modern footy teams have to evolve, not just from season to season but during the season. The one positive in our mid-season slump is that we can't kid ourself that we will cruise into the finals. We need to adjust to the tactics that have stopped our run but we have time to sort this out. We have won high pressure matches over the last season and a half but not enough.

- I don't accept that our tactics are inflexible. Plenty of changes have been made during our 4 losses but they have not turned things around. We have been in strife in quite a few of the matches that we won (easily) and we turned things around.

- Selection decisions have had very little impact. I would have brought Greenwood into the team earlier and dropped Mackay earlier. Andy Otten was a revelation a month ago now we should never have played him? I totally agree that we have been too slow in attack but that will change when Shooter returns. I think we have better options than Kelly but he has played his role. Some want to drop Douglas but he has played some good games.
Basically 18-19 players are certain starters if they are fit and their form doesn't drop too much. Our selection arguments are all about the last three selected and no one ( not even Mackay) has been consistently poor. Our form slump is mostly about our best players underperforming.

- Rory was Brownlow favourite a few weeks ago. The Crouches are amongst the best young midfielders in the league and THE MIGHTY THOR has been a revelation. We have two inexperienced outside mids (Atkins and Milera) who will be very good footballers. My main issue is playing Douglas in the guts at the start of most quarters. I would prefer to play him mostly off half back. We also need another good outside mid/running defender, it's time for the SEED!

- We have no certain wins in our last 9 matches but they are all winnable. If we finish in the top 4 / top 2 then we will have had a great preparation for the finals.
Really good post --- measured, thoughtful, maybe bit optimistic but positive.
You make several good points, especially re tactics. You're right, some changes are tried; some work, many more don't. Aren't you worried even a little by the our-way-that's-not-us excuses?
 
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Nah. Form is out the window but it'll come back. Won't do much in finals though.

Clubs go in and out of form through a season and to be honest it's refreshing seeing us lose it now rather than ~round 20 for once. At least it gives us a chance to reconfigure and get it back for finals.

Problem being Pyke refuses to acknowledge the need for a reconfiguration. Moot point I guess.

Must admit I was wondering where you were going with the reconfigure comment. But you cleared it up with your final sentence.
 
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I feel like we have a very insular culture that has evolved out of a highly scrutinised (fishbowl) environment. Its a bunker mentality that I've mentioned before. No one on the outside understands us. Its just a hobby to them. We know what we are doing. Don't let the criticism affect us. Let's put up walls and even lock down on open training. Inside and outside. Us and them. Good and bad. Right and wrong.

When you're in the bunker and you're not listening to outside voices all you hear is the same confirmation from the same voices. That leads to a failure to recognise problems and a failure to adopt new solutions in my opinion.

It can work fine at the start but when things go wrong and you just have Hitler saying "what do you reckon?" and Goebbels and Goering are saying "ja mein fuhrer back the boys in to respond" time after time it all unravels because their is no fresh input, there is a bankruptcy of ideas coupled with a conviction that we are correct. Only we on the inside know and understand the true situation and outside criticism is treated with suspicion or denial.

This is a failure of outlook and leadership that goes right up the tree to Chapman.

We seem to take that to the next level. If it's coming from outside the walls then it must be wrong. Only we can know what is going on.
 

Jack is Back

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The Giants have lost to the Saints FFS, can't make the Eight.
Geelong lost to Collingwood and the Suns, can't make the Eight.
Poort Poower lost to the Eagles at home, smacked by Essendon and can't beat a top Eight team, can't make the 8.
Melbourne have lost to Freo, North and the Hawks, can't make the Eight.
Richmond lost at home to Freo and can't win close matches, can't make the Eight.
Essendon have lost to Carlton and Freo, can't make the Eight.
West Coast have lost to the Suns, Hawks and smacked by the Dons, can't make the Eight.
The Dogs have lost to Freo, helped over the line by umps in numerous other matches, can't make the Eight.
Sydney have lost to Carlton and home losses to the Hawks and Collingwood, can't make the Eight.

Will the AFL have to cancel September????
 

CrowBloke

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Another year wasted.
A Prelim. loss would be an improvement on last year and several teams have gone on to win the GF the following year after such a loss.
Hardly a year "wasted".
What troubles me is the red-hot start which left us with nowhere to go. Seriously, how were we going to improve, on that? At 6-0 I was thinking about NM's 9-0 start last year and similar fade-outs by others. What I'd want to see is a 3-4 mid-year series, followed by a 6-0 finish.
I don't have any evidence for this but my hunch is that teams playing their best footy at the start of the season generally fall away.
We're currently on the second longest Grand Final drought
I didn't realise this, which is grim indeed.
I didn't think I could feel any worse after Thursday's loss, but I do now. :( :'(

Andy Otten played the "McLovin" role......poorly.
Pyke will not drop Otten, because he looooves what he described himself as Otten's "flexibility" --- can play forward, or back, or in the ruck, and Don won't drop a player that gives him those options.
Personally, I'd drop a player who's not performing in any of those roles, flexible or not. Otten's gotta go, for Seedsman soon, I hope.
 
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