Rumour Willie Rioli allegedly caught tampering with a drug testing sample

[Tim Evans Beard]

There has been no determination that Willie ‘panicked’ over ‘just pot’. These inferences to intent are unfounded and generally have no bearing on sanctions.

Pot use is problematic to characterise within the field of PED use. This is chiefly due to the historical prohibited status of the drug under most jurisdictions. The relationship of pot as a possible masking agent is limited due the lack of research in the area. There is limited research into the interaction between pot and PEDs and this is why the 4 year penalty would be the default consideration.
To limit the penalty, Willie may have to prove only pot use. Providing evidence he didn’t take anything else is problematic if not impossible given the aforementioned limited research into the interaction between pot and PEDs.

 

[Obeanie1]

There has been no determination that Willie ‘panicked’ over ‘just pot’. These inferences to intent are unfounded and generally have no bearing on sanctions.

Pot use is problematic to characterise within the field of PED use. This is chiefly due to the historical prohibited status of the drug under most jurisdictions. The relationship of pot as a possible masking agent is limited due the lack of research in the area. There is limited research into the interaction between pot and PEDs and this is why the 4 year penalty would be the default consideration.
To limit the penalty, Willie may have to prove only pot use. Providing evidence he didn’t take anything else is problematic if not impossible given the aforementioned limited research into the interaction between pot and PEDs.

So due to limited research and understanding of pot and PED the penalty should simply default to the max of four years?

Riiiiiiight!

Ok then. So when a athlete does the same thing but with a PED that everyone knows about and has been fully researched and therefore the science is 100% clear........they get the same four years?

Lets just think about that shall we.

So what you are saying is intent has zero bearing on the penalty.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

So due to limited research and understanding of pot and PED the penalty should simply default to the max of four years?

Riiiiiiight!

Ok then. So when a athlete does the same thing but with a PED that everyone knows about and has been fully researched and therefore the science is 100% clear........they get the same four years?

Lets just think about that shall we.

So what you are saying is intent has zero bearing on the penalty.

That is correct. As the WADA code is explicit regarding process, the default in the absence of clear, non-malicious intent in the full penalty. A reduction can be considered when there is clear, non-malicious intent.

My position is that clear non-malicious intent has not been established, and as such, it would be inconsistent for ASADA to pursue less than 4.

 

[RookiePick]

... to allow them to destroy the evidence before they were raided, if only Rioli had the same chance...

Rioli's evidence was destroyed in a number of small fires.

 

[Senor M]

FMD, what a witch hunt!!! Oppo supporters want to stitch up a guy for something half of Australia does every night of the week while watching television. Judgemental bloody hypocrites with nothing else to do.

I don't comment for the other half of Australia---- but I've never "accidentally" spilt Gatorade into a urine sample while watching Television, yet alone done it every night of the week.

 

[RookiePick]

That is correct. As the WADA code is explicit regarding process, the default in the absence of clear, non-malicious intent in the full penalty. A reduction can be considered when there is clear, non-malicious intent.

My position is that clear non-malicious intent has not been established, and as such, it would be inconsistent for ASADA to pursue less than 4.

There's been no hearing. Nothing is established except for the submission of gatorade instead of urine and the presence of metabolites of cannabis in a subsequent test.

Everyone is just making assumptions and predicting an outcome off those assumptions.

 

[Obeanie1]

That is correct. As the WADA code is explicit regarding process, the default in the absence of clear, non-malicious intent in the full penalty. A reduction can be considered when there is clear, non-malicious intent.

My position is that clear non-malicious intent has not been established, and as such, it would be inconsistent for ASADA to pursue less than 4.

So what is malicious intent?

I would argue Lance Armstrong displayed malicious intent as he systematically doped. He systematically planned to dope and he also systematically coersed others to help him avoid and tamper with drug tests. The substances he took we taken for the explicit intent to cheat and perform as a better athlete.

So in that example his actions were malicious in that the aim was to cheat on several levels.

So back to the pot smoker who panicked in a drug test. How is that malicious? Did they plan to cheat with pot to improve athletically? Did they systematically plan to avoid and cheat in any tests? Did they coerse others to help them cheat? Did they smoke pot for recreation or explicitly to improve as an athlete?

 

[RookiePick]

The assumption that Willie was "just smoking pot" is also fraught with danger. The whole premise of the system is that tampering gets the same penalty as a PED positive, otherwise there is incentive to tamper. If he engaged in a deliberate deception it doesn't actually matter if he is clean as a whistle, he should get the max whack.

 

[Obeanie1]

I presume it would be worth 4 years now.

A stoner that panicked because he'd been taking banned drugs and knew he'd fail a test so tried to tamper with the test in the most incredulously stupid way before actually failing the test anyway because, you know, he'd been taking banned drugs?

I think it should be 4 years for stupidity alone personally.

So you avoided the question. What a surprise. That's what people do when they don't have anything credible to add. Actually, that has pretty much been every post you've made.

Q: Are you saying being a stoner who panicked is worth the same penalty as systematic and planned drug cheating?

"4 years for stupidity" is nothing more than a troll throw away line when you refuse to answer a simple question.

Geez, such maturity from a Mod no less, I really hope you are a better moderator than you are in debating an issue.

It's obvious you are still bitter about how the Essendon drug cheats were penalised and just want any other drug cheats, even recreational pot smokers, to cop more than the drug cheats ASADA and WADA are actually looking for.

I look forward to your silly little LOL face. Just another indication of nothing credible to add.

 

[Beerfish]

Q: Are you saying being a stoner who panicked is worth the same penalty as systematic and planned drug cheating?

Yes I am. And so will asada. Because it's drug cheating and sample tampering.

Hope that's clear enough for you.

I do find it amusing how you keep bleating about him being just a scared pothead like it should make any difference though.

Oh yeah, and nice melt.

 

[Obeanie1]

Yes I am. And so will asada. Because it's drug cheating and sample tampering.

Hope that's clear enough for you.

I do find it amusing how you keep bleating about him being just a scared pothead like it should make any difference though.

Oh yeah, and nice melt.

LOL. Please keep posting, I need the laughs!!

OK your view is a stoner is just as guilty as a player and club who systematically had thousands of PED injections over several years, knowingly lied to ASADA and, after getting tipped off, destroyed evidence to cover up the whole thing. AND the stoner should get double the penalty.

Baaaa haaaa haaa hoo ho hum. Thanks, you just proved how much of a hypocrite you are.

Yep, much of the same from you. As much substance as baby poo.

Like I said. I hope you are a better mod cos as a poster you don't have a clue how to string together an argument.

 

[Beerfish]

LOL. Please keep posting, I need the laughs!!

OK your view is a stoner is just as guilty as a player and club who systematically had thousands of PED injections over several years, knowingly lied to ASADA and, after getting tipped off, destroyed evidence to cover up the whole thing. AND the stoner should get double the penalty.

Baaaa haaaa haaa hoo ho hum. Thanks, you just proved how much of a hypocrite you are.

Yep, much of the same from you. As much substance as baby poo.

Like I said. I hope you are a better mod cos as a poster you don't have a clue how to string together an argument.

Again. Nice melt.

So you ask for my opinion, then throw insults and call me a hypocrite (still don't understand how that's so) when I give it because you disagree with me.

You also keep posting your version of the drug saga like this bothers me or something. Honestly, I'm more bitter about the state of umpiring at the moment. It's water off a ducks back.

I'm not trying to make any argument. That's you - he's just a scared stoner/it's not fair/it's not the same/it's the vibe. The rules are quite clear. /shrug

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

There's been no hearing. Nothing is established except for the submission of gatorade instead of urine and the presence of metabolites of cannabis in a subsequent test.

Everyone is just making assumptions and predicting an outcome off those assumptions.

I think we are in heated agreement!

 

[VicBased]

I don't comment for the other half of Australia---- but I've never "accidentally" spilt Gatorade into a urine sample while watching Television, yet alone done it every night of the week.

Come on , your smarter than that but.....Touche.

 

[frggr]

You still pushing this? You've been made to look a hypocritical fool. Haha, this is classic Nuffies on AFL pages stuff!

Yes, but not in the way you think it is

 

[kerrazy]

Rules are rules...Willie is cooked unfortunately. It will be 4 years.

 

[Seadog]

Lot of people here with a lot to say about something they know nothing about.

You keep talking that same, same song
But love lost
Make it hard to get along
I get it
If it's wrong then it's wrong
But you say nothing
'Bout all kinds of something
So...
You got nothing to say
(Don't say nothing)
You got nothing to give
(Don't say nothing)
You got something to give, well
(Show me something)
You got nothing to say
(Don't say nothing)

 

[Rod Stroker]

Totally forgot about this guy. Would have been handy on Saturday.

Healy On The Couch just said the AFL and WADA need to come out and provide clarity on this future. What's his future?

 

[matthew_s]

Totally forgot about this guy. Would have been handy on Saturday.

Healy On The Couch just said the AFL and WADA need to come out and provide clarity on this future. What's his future?

It's been a whole season with nothing happening. It's an open and shut case. * knows what the hold-up is.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

Part of the delay is on the pre-hearing paperwork. The athlete has a right to present their response to the regulating body's position (in this case Team Rioli to the ASADA position). Team Rioli took some time in lodging their responses, however not an unreasonable amount of time. All parties are now consolidating material and setting responses to responses (if that makes sense in a convoluted way).

Although parties are hoping for a hearing and outcome this calendar year, I doubt an outcome will be delivered by the end of year or when lists are finalised (mid-December). No hard data to base this on, however there are no entries for this case on the ASADA calendar and time is running short this year.

 

[master bate]

Everyone deserves fair and swift justice. This is so silly. It's not a murder trial.

Did he do something wrong - yes. Ok well that's a years suspension.

Let's see if he can prove he wasn't flat out cheating. If he can then let's get him back in the game as soon as we can.

Absolute nonsense situation that we are in that AFL footballers get held to the same standards as Olympic athletes going for gold medals on the world stage.

I doubt even 1 of the 17 other clubs would have any objection to Willie being back either now or after 1 more year out. I bet if he was on the free market they'd all try to sign him.

 

[javaguice]

Everyone deserves fair and swift justice. This is so silly. It's not a murder trial.

Did he do something wrong - yes. Ok well that's a years suspension.

Let's see if he can prove he wasn't flat out cheating. If he can then let's get him back in the game as soon as we can.

Absolute nonsense situation that we are in that AFL footballers get held to the same standards as Olympic athletes going for gold medals on the world stage.

I doubt even 1 of the 17 other clubs would have any objection to Willie being back either now or after 1 more year out. I bet if he was on the free market they'd all try to sign him.

Heard something about West coast wanting to wait til season's over so it's not a distraction.

Well, our seasons over now...match this space

 

[smasha]

Really feel bad for him.

Hope he gets back on the footy field.

Maybe why Dan was down in the dumps a bit early this season.

 

[javaguice]

Really feel bad for him.

Hope he gets back on the footy field.

Maybe why Dan was down in the dumps a bit early this season.

Just hope he doesn't get 4 years... would end his career. He ****ed up big time, but... sad situation.

Met the bloke, such a nice lad.

 

[smasha]

Just hope he doesn't get 4 years... would end his career. He f’ed up big time, but... sad situation.

Met the bloke, such a nice lad.

Would have been super handy in the final.