News Willie Rioli: tampered with drug testing sample; tests positive for cannabis

[JackOutback]

How does breaking the rules out of frustration or panic make you not a cheat?

The argument would be he’s not a drug cheat, he’s a rule cheat, I guess.

The AFL lens that many of us take is too narrow for the wider WADA compliance

If this was Sun Yang or Chris Froome - we'd be baying for blood

I have little doubt if this was at the olympics it is 4 years

Given the AFL complies with ASADA and ergo WADA - naivety or not - it's hard to see him playing again

I hope I am bloody wrong - will be criminal to not see the lad play football again - but the laws are written to stop systematic cheating at the highest order and Rioli has fallen foul of it.

The stages of grief... think many of us still in denial.

I agree with much of what you are saying, but I am reminded that Essendon players got 12 months for a doping program. I honestly don’t know which way they would choose to go.

 

[3rdMan]

The AFL lens that many of us take is too narrow for the wider WADA compliance

If this was Sun Yang or Chris Froome - we'd be baying for blood

I have little doubt if this was at the olympics it is 4 years

Given the AFL complies with ASADA and ergo WADA - naivety or not - it's hard to see him playing again

I hope I am bloody wrong - will be criminal to not see the lad play football again - but the laws are written to stop systematic cheating at the highest order and Rioli has fallen foul of it.

The stages of grief... think many of us still in denial.

I have no time for drug cheats, but am also not on the best terms with WADA and ASADA.

They approach everything with a sledge hammer because they know they don't catch most of the serious cheats. That being the case, they want to smash any athlete for whatever indiscretion they can find. No need to prove cheating or that an actual advantage was inferred. In this system, unlike the courts, it's better to heavily punish some who might not be guilty so that others might be deterred. In the end they mostly catch athletes that are negligent for whatever reason, whereas big time cheats who are meticulous because of it, don't have a problem.

It's a crap system with penalties that are way over the top (2 years was bad, 4 years is nuts - though makes some sense in an Olympic context). And I mean this for the large majority of indiscretions that are exposed. Actual, intentional cheating that did provide the athlete with an advantage? Four years is absolutely fine and may even be light.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

Ridiculous. Though compared to Sam Murray's case that is ASADA acting with haste.

I understand how important it is to follow process in all of this and that it takes time. However, it's just ludicrous that an athlete can be banned for 6-12 months before their case is heard and a sentence decided on. Even if found not guilty their career could already have been irrevocably damaged.

Provisional bans are rarely given without cause - often an athlete can continue to compete after a positive test if the administration board has not made a determination. The most common examples are when combat sports athletes are tested fight week under VADA conditions.
A provisional ban is given if the administration board has made a decision and provided that through to the sports governing body - it is up to the athlete to accept or challenge the findings, however they stand until new information comes to light (including athlete testimony).

 

[madrigal]

The argument would be he’s not a drug cheat, he’s a rule cheat, I guess.

Drug test cheat. Piss swap cheat.

 

[Numero Uno]

confirmed no drugs in his system
waited over 4 hours

2 weeks

 

[madrigal]

I am reminded that Essendon players got 12 months for a doping program

Which most people thought was a disgrace. Let's hope the AFL is not able to compromise the result again.

 

[Toump Ass]

If stupidity was a punishable offence Rioli would get a death sentence. Imagine not having any drugs in your system and handing the tester a bottle of sports drink because it was taking too long. Willie should argue that he was concussed during the game and he was just being a nice bloke offering the chaperone a cool drink while he waited to get a nice trickle going.

 

[3rdMan]

Players do stupid things all the time. Allowing themselves to be continually injected with who knows what (Essendon), betting measly amounts on games they are involved in (Collingwood), Climbing goal posts (Sydney), being Toby Greene.

Stupidity isn't what we should be punishing with a 4 year ban. That should be reserved for actual drug cheats. The ASADA, WADA system is out of whack in that regard and I'd prefer the AFL were not part of it. They do want to catch the real cheats, but know they aren't really capable, so are perfectly happy to heavy handedly take down a bunch of small fry to try and deter real cheats. And I'm sorry, while being completely anti performance enhancing drugs, that is simply wrong.

This is not specifically about the Rioli case, we don't yet know the details and whether he was attempting to cheat or not. The reporting would suggest not, but we know better than to trust that.

 

[quotemokc]

Players do stupid things all the time. Allowing themselves to be continually injected with who knows what (Essendon), betting measly amounts on games they are involved in (Collingwood), Climbing goal posts (Sydney), being Toby Greene.

Stupidity isn't what we should be punishing with a 4 year ban. That should be reserved for actual drug cheats. The ASADA, WADA system is out of whack in that regard and I'd prefer the AFL were not part of it. They do want to catch the real cheats, but know they aren't really capable, so are perfectly happy to heavy handedly take down a bunch of small fry to try and deter real cheats. And I'm sorry, while being completely anti performance enhancing drugs, that is simply wrong.

This is not specifically about the Rioli case, we don't yet know the details and whether he was attempting to cheat or not. The reporting would suggest not, but we know better than to trust that.

But you also cant use stupidity as excuse for a lesser punishment as then it would set a precedent.

 

[Rob]

If this latest story is true, I can't understand how he has the basic intelligence required to find his front door in the morning, let alone drive a car to training.

It would also mean that he's poured Gatorade into the bottle, then poured that bottle into the A and B sample containers and sealed them. That's a bit more than just pouring Gatorade out of frustration. For that reason I'm inclined not to believe it. Not without further evidence anyway.

 

[Numero Uno]

If this latest story is true, I can't understand how he has the basic intelligence required to find his front door in the morning, let alone drive a car to training.

It would also mean that he's poured Gatorade into the bottle, then poured that bottle into the A and B sample containers and sealed them. That's a bit more than just pouring Gatorade out of frustration. For that reason I'm inclined not to believe it. Not without further evidence anyway.

what your salty obsessed supporter base wants to believe you mean

 

[3rdMan]

But you also cant use stupidity as excuse for a lesser punishment as then it would set a precedent.

Absolutely not, but 4 year bans should not be imposed for stupidly failing to follow protocol. Potentially a ban yes, but not 4 years. Some kind of cheating should have to be established. Actually cheating and claiming stupidity or ignorance, sure you don't get the benefit of doubt there.

I know the reason WADA/ASADA do this, it's because they're ineffectual and have to be heavy handed to have any impact. Unfortunately, it means that often minor cases, where no cheating was even intended, can still face harsh punishment. They make an example of anyone they can catch in lieu of mostly failing to catch real cheats. That's not justice.

 

[E Shed]

if he had no PED's in his system or illicit then let the guy play FFS.
No one wins from guys with his talent being on the sidelines.

 

[Great8]

4 years but be harsh if that is in fact true but needs to get a decent penalty to act as a deterrent. 2 years would be much fairer

 

[Numero Uno]

Did E-Shed's post break your brain? Maybe stop playing the man for once and realise that this is a nuanced & divisive issue for many footy fans regardless of the club they barrack for

it wasnt his post I was responding to

 

[Scotland]

I reckon people would be more suspicious of him if he looked like an elite athlete. If some elite runner like Gaff/Masten or an explosive athlete like Yeo was in the same boat you'd me more inclined to think PEDs than a little pork chop who had to play in the twos for a year because he was fat.

 

[Scotland]

Also the media reporting on this story is even more garbage than usual. One test two tests, positive test non positive test, caught tampering not actually caught tampering but his test results point to it...

Is anyone reporting on available information or is everyone just throwing darts at the board?

 

[Milang_Panthers]

But you also cant use stupidity as excuse for a lesser punishment as then it would set a precedent.

This.

 

[Demontim275]

Sure. We all manage to legally and effectively drive motor vehicles without being able to recite all the road laws verbatim.

Knowing how to comply with a law is different to being able to recite said law.



I agree, nothing will change until clubs believe that it is within their control and take responsibility for it.



Sure, the horse has bolted.

But sadly for me I follow a club that doesn’t learn from its mistakes. Stephenson wasn’t its first player to get pinged for gambling on games. Murray wasn’t its first player to run afoul of the anti-doping code as a result of taking an illicit substance.



I’d imagine that if Willie had his time again he would choose to handle the situation a bit differently?

That last sentence just shows you’re being disingenuous. It wasn’t even related to what you quoted

Of course now willie regrets what he did. But that doesn’t mean his mistake was because he was unaware of the rules. How would him taking a test on pissing in a cup have prevented this?

They get about 1.5 hours of education from ASADA a year, a test isn’t going to add anything (unless you think that every player forgets it)

It won’t stop it happening

Do you think if you give a players a written test on striking, they’ll stop? Or that it will protect the club when a player gets rubbed out?

I don’t think even Stephenson has claimed he forgot the rules

But yeah mate. Giving players a written test will prevent any player being suspended and protect the clubs

 

[Freoforever86]

Would like to check the spin rate put on this by eagles. RPM would be up there with Warne and Lyon

 

[the harry]

Would like to check the spin rate put on this by eagles. RPM would be up there with Warne and Lyon

The 45 different variations of the story suggest that there are a few parts of the ASADA/WADA process that can be improved. A release of a simple summary of known facts and the accusation would save so much time for everyone.

Also, the effort the club put in is pretty unlikely to change the facts so it seems a little pointless, particularly since the public aren't who decides the ban.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Would like to check the spin rate put on this by eagles. RPM would be up there with Warne and Lyon

Except that it is entirely verifiable by the blood test results and the ASADA rep

 

[kingswood71]

I think Barrett makes a few interesting observations:
"HERE'S a little exercise for everyone here in Australia, where as a nation we loathe people who take drugs in sports, yet make exceptions, without fail, if the person in strife is actually Australian.
Replace the name Willie Rioli with that of Sun Yang in every thought you have had, word you have uttered and opinion you have shared since learning last Thursday of the West Coast forward's issue with ASADA.
There is no way that the slack, sympathy, care and even anger on his behalf – all valid feelings and reactions, by the way – would have been afforded if it was Sun Yang, the Chinese Olympic Medal-winning swimmer once banned for a drugs breach, and not Willie Rioli, who last month allegedly tampered with a drug test sample, adding something other than urine to the substance he provided to ASADA."

BARRETT: Nothing tough about complex, defiant Toby's latest act

Giants' on-field genius gives Michael Christian little choice, Leon Cameron defies the critics again and why are Aussie sports fans such hypocrites?

www.afl.com.au

 

[kaiserchief13]

If that is true regarding couldn't piss for multiple hours, got frustrated and filled up the cups with anything he could find and the asada official saw this so requested a blood test that day which came back clear, then how the * did he get any suspension at all? Did the asada official offer him the blood test option before the cups were filled? If not why not?

 

[_jrtp09_]

I think Barrett makes a few interesting observations:
"HERE'S a little exercise for everyone here in Australia, where as a nation we loathe people who take drugs in sports, yet make exceptions, without fail, if the person in strife is actually Australian.
Replace the name Willie Rioli with that of Sun Yang in every thought you have had, word you have uttered and opinion you have shared since learning last Thursday of the West Coast forward's issue with ASADA.
There is no way that the slack, sympathy, care and even anger on his behalf – all valid feelings and reactions, by the way – would have been afforded if it was Sun Yang, the Chinese Olympic Medal-winning swimmer once banned for a drugs breach, and not Willie Rioli, who last month allegedly tampered with a drug test sample, adding something other than urine to the substance he provided to ASADA."

BARRETT: Nothing tough about complex, defiant Toby's latest act

Giants' on-field genius gives Michael Christian little choice, Leon Cameron defies the critics again and why are Aussie sports fans such hypocrites?

www.afl.com.au

Interesting maybe, but invalid IMO.

Rioli is NOT an Olympic athlete and therefore should not be subject to penalty or deterrent devised for such athletes who have a 4 year window between competition.

The penalty is simply being transferred to AFL players and is totally inappropriate, and reflects either incompetence or laziness on the part of ASADA.

The AFL and AFLPA have dropped the ball on this issue too.