News Willie Rioli - Provisionally Suspended

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Sloane4brownlow

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Given the lack of information available I would just take Saads case as a guide for when ASADA will get around to providing an update:

- Saad was caught July 7th 2012 for a substance only illegal on gameday (similar to willie);
- Asada took 10months to complete their investigation (ie probably 9months and 3 weeks to get around looking at it);
- Saad faced the AFL doping tribunal on October 1st 2013 (ie 1year,3months after being caught);
- A guilty verdict and 18month ban took another 4 weeks to hand down);
- Asada appealed wanting a maximum 2 year ban;
- Adadas appeal failed and the 18month ban was finalised. Time served was backdated such that was free to play AFL again commencing 2014.
- Saints delisted him at the end of 2013.
- Saints picked him up again as a rookie spot at the end of 2014 (it 2015 rookie draft);
- Saad never really made it back and was subsequently de-listed end of 2015.

Based on the above I think anything less than 18-24months out of the game is a pipe dream (excuse the pun).

Whether it's career over or not, may yet be up to Rioli but I imagine he'll get delisted at the end of this year. The earlier he gets his mind around that the better.

If he can stay in shape and remain positive he might make it back on a list ~ 2022 (at best) but he'll be 27 by then. I seriously doubt we take him back at that age.

But playing devils advocate, I think Asada go for the maximum 4 years here given their treatment of Saad. Almost assuredly career over.
 

shooshka

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Given the lack of information available I would just take Saads case as a guide for when ASADA will get around to providing an update:

- Saad was caught July 7th 2012 for a substance only illegal on gameday (similar to willie);
- Asada took 10months to complete their investigation (ie probably 9months and 3 weeks to get around looking at it);
- Saad faced the AFL doping tribunal on October 1st 2013 (ie 1year,3months after being caught);
- A guilty verdict and 18month ban took another 4 weeks to hand down);
- Asada appealed wanting a maximum 2 year ban;
- Adadas appeal failed and the 18month ban was finalised. Time served was backdated such that was free to play AFL again commencing 2014.
- Saints delisted him at the end of 2013.
- Saints picked him up again as a rookie spot at the end of 2014 (it 2015 rookie draft);
- Saad never really made it back and was subsequently de-listed end of 2015.

Based on the above I think anything less than 18-24months out of the game is a pipe dream (excuse the pun).

Whether it's career over or not, may yet be up to Rioli but I imagine he'll get delisted at the end of this year. The earlier he gets his mind around that the better.

If he can stay in shape and remain positive he might make it back on a list ~ 2022 (at best) but he'll be 27 by then. I seriously doubt we take him back at that age.

But playing devils advocate, I think Asada go for the maximum 4 years here given their treatment of Saad. Almost assuredly career over.
No way we delist him if he gets 18 months - that would have him back playing round 3-4 2021 (or near enough). 24 months becomes interesting - as that would require us to keep him on the list for 2 full years while not playing.

That said, Saad was caught with a performance enhancing drug in his system on gameday - that was there by accident. Willie (taking into account the positive test, which will not be what he is charged with) is accused of tampering with a test, outside of competition, essentially to cover up a recreational drug (that essentially he knew was there, and was in his system by choice with full knowledge that it was banned).

In my opinion they aren't a good comparison. Not saying the outcome will or won't be the same - but just that the cases are quite different.
 

eagles rule

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Given the lack of information available I would just take Saads case as a guide for when ASADA will get around to providing an update:

- Saad was caught July 7th 2012 for a substance only illegal on gameday (similar to willie);
- Asada took 10months to complete their investigation (ie probably 9months and 3 weeks to get around looking at it);
- Saad faced the AFL doping tribunal on October 1st 2013 (ie 1year,3months after being caught);
- A guilty verdict and 18month ban took another 4 weeks to hand down);
- Asada appealed wanting a maximum 2 year ban;
- Adadas appeal failed and the 18month ban was finalised. Time served was backdated such that was free to play AFL again commencing 2014.
- Saints delisted him at the end of 2013.
- Saints picked him up again as a rookie spot at the end of 2014 (it 2015 rookie draft);
- Saad never really made it back and was subsequently de-listed end of 2015.

Based on the above I think anything less than 18-24months out of the game is a pipe dream (excuse the pun).

Whether it's career over or not, may yet be up to Rioli but I imagine he'll get delisted at the end of this year. The earlier he gets his mind around that the better.

If he can stay in shape and remain positive he might make it back on a list ~ 2022 (at best) but he'll be 27 by then. I seriously doubt we take him back at that age.

But playing devils advocate, I think Asada go for the maximum 4 years here given their treatment of Saad. Almost assuredly career over.

The Saad substance was performance enhancing is a major difference..


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Sloane4brownlow

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The Saad substance was performance enhancing is a major difference..


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Not overly different. The substance wasn't illegal other than gameday in both cases. So it's not like Saad was taking a steroid or something. Also it was accidental. I'd argue Saad's was a lesser crime than Willie's.

Just my opinion but I suspect Willies case will be viewed as worse given he knowingly did it. Particularly if the evidence he tampered with his sample is correct. The substance he had in his system may become irrelevant to a certain extent (unfortunately).

I mostly spelt out the Saad case to say it'll be 10-12months before anything is finalized with Willie. So everyone needs to be prepared for this to drag out until at least mid next year. We'll get an answer by the end of next year. Anything more than a 2 year suspension and WCE will probably delist him (or that's what I'd want anyway).

He signed a contract extension in May so he's technically signed until end 2022. I'd imagine that contract is on 'hold' at the moment or all monies being paid to a frozen account while the investigation is pending. There'd be terms in his contract that it's null and void if he breaks the law etc (just a guess but I'd be amazed if it didn't).

So assuming that's correct, as soon as a guilty verdict is handed down of any form, Willies Contract with us is null and void if the Eagles choose to do so. Anything 2 years or more and he'll be de-listed at the first offramp. Best not to be emotional about these things. It's Willies mistake and he has to take the result on the chin. That's not to say we won't pick him back up in the future if/when his ban lifts.

Agree with:
No way we delist him if he gets 18 months - that would have him back playing round 3-4 2021 (or near enough). 24 months becomes interesting - as that would require us to keep him on the list for 2 full years while not playing.
18months probably the tipping point for keeping him vs delisting him.
 

jatz14

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The Saad substance was performance enhancing is a major difference..


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I think they operate under the assumption that anybody tampering with a sample is trying to conceal the worst possible infraction.. If they didnt, then anybody who is actually breaching the standards in a major way, has an incentive to tamper, as if they get caught tampering, they get a lighter penalty than not tampering, and being caught for the breach.
 

random260

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Given the lack of information available I would just take Saads case as a guide for when ASADA will get around to providing an update:

- Saad was caught July 7th 2012 for a substance only illegal on gameday (similar to willie);
- Asada took 10months to complete their investigation (ie probably 9months and 3 weeks to get around looking at it);
- Saad faced the AFL doping tribunal on October 1st 2013 (ie 1year,3months after being caught);
- A guilty verdict and 18month ban took another 4 weeks to hand down);
- Asada appealed wanting a maximum 2 year ban;
- Adadas appeal failed and the 18month ban was finalised. Time served was backdated such that was free to play AFL again commencing 2014.
- Saints delisted him at the end of 2013.
- Saints picked him up again as a rookie spot at the end of 2014 (it 2015 rookie draft);
- Saad never really made it back and was subsequently de-listed end of 2015.

Based on the above I think anything less than 18-24months out of the game is a pipe dream (excuse the pun).

Whether it's career over or not, may yet be up to Rioli but I imagine he'll get delisted at the end of this year. The earlier he gets his mind around that the better.

If he can stay in shape and remain positive he might make it back on a list ~ 2022 (at best) but he'll be 27 by then. I seriously doubt we take him back at that age.

But playing devils advocate, I think Asada go for the maximum 4 years here given their treatment of Saad. Almost assuredly career over.
Marlion pickett is 27. The presecedent has been set. Mature ages are as valuable to clubs as ever. Teams are copying richmond. Theres a reason why richmond are on top and not looking back. We should see a trend of mature ages being picked up. Which is really goos for mature ages
 
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jatz14

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In your opinion.
Yes, its my opinion Rioli violated ASADA rules, and will be charged by ASADA. Its also the AFLs opinion, and ASADAs opinion, and Riolis opinion, but whos counting.

From the ex CEO of ASADA on the case.

“This would be treated very seriously. This is an unusual case, we are used to positive drugs test coming through. This is the first case in quite some time of tampering of a sample, certainly at this level,” Ings said.

“It’s a very, very serious allegation. It’s viewed as the most serious violation of rules and can carry up to a four year ban."

That it was cannabis in his system, and how that would be viewed is entirely irrelevant at this point.
 

DJMac

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Yes, its my opinion Rioli violated ASADA rules, and will be charged by ASADA. Its also the AFLs opinion, and ASADAs opinion, and Riolis opinion, but whos counting.

From the ex CEO of ASADA on the case.

“This would be treated very seriously. This is an unusual case, we are used to positive drugs test coming through. This is the first case in quite some time of tampering of a sample, certainly at this level,” Ings said.

“It’s a very, very serious allegation. It’s viewed as the most serious violation of rules and can carry up to a four year ban."

That it was cannabis in his system, and how that would be viewed is entirely irrelevant at this point.
I am not disagreeing with that. It was you stating as fact the role of the AFL CEO and dismissing others opinions as plain wrong.
 

jatz14

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I am not disagreeing with that. It was you stating as fact the role of the AFL CEO and dismissing others opinions as plain wrong.
What role do you think he has? In the scheme of powerful people, world and national doping authorities have to deal with, Gil is a nobody. If Gil get get ASADA to change their timetable, or plans, or influence an outcome, what do you think happens if the NFL starts throwing its weight around, or FIFA, or the Chinese government?

This is the reason they try to maintain a hard line stance, if they are seen to give an inch, they are going to be under immense pressure from very powerful people, who all want their inch too.

I suspect ASADA has people that deal with client organisations, but the people involved directly in the case wouldn't even take a call from Gil.
 

Broken_Chairs

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What role do you think he has? In the scheme of powerful people, world and national doping authorities have to deal with, Gil is a nobody. If Gil get get ASADA to change their timetable, or plans, or influence an outcome, what do you think happens if the NFL starts throwing its weight around, or FIFA, or the Chinese government?

This is the reason they try to maintain a hard line stance, if they are seen to give an inch, they are going to be under immense pressure from very powerful people, who all want their inch too.

I suspect ASADA has people that deal with client organisations, but the people involved directly in the case wouldn't even take a call from Gil.
NFL isn't signed to the WADA code

And FIFA isn't exactly basking the code in glory
 

DJMac

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What role do you think he has? In the scheme of powerful people, world and national doping authorities have to deal with, Gil is a nobody. If Gil get get ASADA to change their timetable, or plans, or influence an outcome, what do you think happens if the NFL starts throwing its weight around, or FIFA, or the Chinese government?

This is the reason they try to maintain a hard line stance, if they are seen to give an inch, they are going to be under immense pressure from very powerful people, who all want their inch too.

I suspect ASADA has people that deal with client organisations, but the people involved directly in the case wouldn't even take a call from Gil.
What role do you think a Big Footy poster has? Anyway I’m out on this one it’s impossible to debate someone who states as fact every thought that pops into their head.
 

jatz14

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What role do you think a Big Footy poster has? Anyway I’m out on this one it’s impossible to debate someone who states as fact every thought that pops into their head.
As far as I can tell, your chief objection is that I dont agree with you. At least I present a reason for my opinions, all you have presented is 'but its Gill'.
 

shooshka

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Will this Russia decision have anything to do with Willie?

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no it won't. but just reading it I hope Willie gets a ban that's not really a ban also (I think the technical term is a 'Stephenson Ban').

They banned Russia, but they can compete in qualifying for the 2022 WC, if they do qualify they can't compete as Russia (that implies to me they can compete as a neutral or under another banner).

Also banned from the Olympics - but athletes who can prove they weren't part of the violations can compete under the neutral banner.

So essentially similar to a fully suspended sentence for Willie. That would be nice!
 

RookiePick

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The fact he is still in the NT, doesn't give me any confidence, he has/will change his ways.

Convinced he will never play for us again.
That's pretty harsh. It's on the spectrum of possibilities but Willie looks trim and fighting fit in the few photos that have surfaced.

He cocked up royally but he is a good chance to make it back if he doesn't cop a ban greater than 2 years IMO.
 

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