News Willie Rioli - Provisionally Suspended

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Pulsedriver

All Australian
Oct 21, 2017
777
1,161
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I agree with a bunch of what you said, but I also think that I have a bias and am really sensitive to all things eagles. There are a bunch of teams that cop the exact same, the Vic teams claim no real home ground etc. Everyone has their own team rank highest priority. The AFL's job is near impossible.

I am essentially happy and put up with all of the above because I love footy and they next best option is WAFL. I will eat the sh*t sandwich the AFL serve and smile because I know it wont be too far away where they will eat it when we lift the cup again.
Exhibit A, your honour, as to why nothing will ever change being fan-lead. The plebs don't care about the issues involved in their circus, they just want their circus.
 

jatz14

Norm Smith Medallist
Dec 13, 2011
7,423
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Can someone


We need to drop all the stupid "Vicco bias" sh*t.

There are legitimate instances where we are disadvantaged by being a Non-Victorian club.

The idea that the AFL is actively out to get us is ridiculous.
The AFL is actively out to get every club as per the BF experts.

Odd behavior for a league, but there you go

On moto g(6) plus using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

flamingEMBERS

Norm Smith Medallist
Sep 8, 2011
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Have you not read the sentiments on the main board when non-Victorian supporters raise related issues? Victorian fans typically deny and obfuscate... until they're ground down, backed into a corner and finally get from them: 'well, you did join the VFL, so be grateful and stop bitching.' The strategy of getting Victorian fans on board is a losing proposition, because footy is tribal, and these fans want to keep the status quo whereby their team receives a leg up.



What you've suggested has been tried and tested on Figbooty to no avail. Tribal factions will never unite. Where's the incentive to do so for Victorian supporters? Appealing to their sense of fairness and justice has proven to be a waste of time and energy. Rather than bringing about unity, mockery and derision is what ensues.



I agree with you on the part where the AFL don't give a sh*t about any number of WCE supporters complaining.

If the club lead the charge, some sections of the national media will start covering it. That's a start. It's likely the sycophantic Vic media will ignore it, as they're largely AFL controlled.

It's well and good to have high-minded ideals of bringing everyone together, but the real b*tch of the situation is in the how, given competing interests.



There's just too many tribalistic fans who revel in flipping the bird to the opposition and who care nothing for integrity, fairness, justice and so forth. Such fans unwittingly run interference for the AFL. The AFL need not do anything but let the disputing fans bicker among themselves. Tribalism is the nature of the beast we're up against. It's why I believe much more is needed than a weak fan-lead protest.

The club getting involved is a start, but a weak half-arsed effort will be mocked by the Vic-based supporters and the AFL. A weak threat or statement from the club will be ignored or mocked and lessen the club's credibility, so play hard, play to win, be prepared to go to extremes and don't threaten without the will to follow through. The fans can only protest, and the protestations of the plebs will be ignored. The club can hit the AFL where it hurts and really fu** their sh*t up if they're willing to get their hands dirty and forgo their stoic professionalism for the time being. If you want to win, prepare for a (metaphorical) fist fight, for the gentlemanly approach will get the club and its supporters nowhere. Either go hard or go home.
The best way would be to gather all 8 non-Vic clubs and be a united front prior to fronting the AFL and AFL media.

I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the poorer vic clubs joined in.
 

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Miguel Sanchez

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The best way would be to gather all 8 non-Vic clubs and be a united front prior to fronting the AFL and AFL media.

I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the poorer vic clubs joined in.
Given that the AFL owns three of the NSW/Qld teams, I don’t think we could rely on their support.

And the fourth one is the Lions, who probably aren’t in a position to complain about their treatment from HQ this year.
 

bh90210fan

Premiership Player
Sep 4, 2017
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25 times this year abc Perth has requested Gillon to appear on their radio show, yet get nowhere. 25 times!!
Not to mention ignored requests to appear on any other Perth network, it’s disgusting.

Meanwhile, he’s doing regular interviews with Melbourne journalists at the drop of a hat. What’s he scared of? There are a number of uncomfortable questions he doesn’t want to be asked.

have a listen to last weeks sports talk program, the link was posted on here somewhere the other day and then tell me there’s no Vicbias.
 

Kellythatsit

Club Legend
Jun 20, 2008
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Given that the AFL owns three of the NSW/Qld teams, I don’t think we could rely on their support.

And the fourth one is the Lions, who probably aren’t in a position to complain about their treatment from HQ this year.
The SA clubs are also in debt to the AFL currently. It is unlikely they will be biting the hand that feeds them.

This is another reason a club led challenge would be not only pointless, but impossible.
 

Kellythatsit

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Jun 20, 2008
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25 times this year abc Perth has requested Gillon to appear on their radio show, yet get nowhere. 25 times!!
Not to mention ignored requests to appear on any other Perth network, it’s disgusting.

Meanwhile, he’s doing regular interviews with Melbourne journalists at the drop of a hat. What’s he scared of? There are a number of uncomfortable questions he doesn’t want to be asked.

have a listen to last weeks sports talk program, the link was posted on here somewhere the other day and then tell me there’s no Vicbias.
He's not scared of anything. He just knows that he is not answerable to the Perth media because they don't set the agenda.
 

Kellythatsit

Club Legend
Jun 20, 2008
1,329
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Have you not read the sentiments on the main board when non-Victorian supporters raise related issues? Victorian fans typically deny and obfuscate... until they're ground down, backed into a corner and finally get from them: 'well, you did join the VFL, so be grateful and stop bitching.' The strategy of getting Victorian fans on board is a losing proposition, because footy is tribal, and these fans want to keep the status quo whereby their team receives a leg up.

What you've suggested has been tried and tested on Figbooty to no avail. Tribal factions will never unite. Where's the incentive to do so for Victorian supporters? Appealing to their sense of fairness and justice has proven to be a waste of time and energy. Rather than bringing about unity, mockery and derision is what ensues.
I'm hardly talking about going directly onto the main board, outlining a manifesto, and asking "Who is with me?". Of course it's going to be met with ridicule.

It needs to be developed with a little more nuance than that. For example, visiting the Adelaide board and joining conversations when they rant about inequality. Finding Tasmanian and NT supporters who are frustrated at the AFL's neglect of their football loving communities. Slowly building a network of like minded people on Bigfooty.com. Hell, there are Hawthorn supporters out there at the moment, frustrated at the lack of integrity in this game. Even they would be open to SOME ideas.

Over time then, even when the issue is brought up on the main board, there will be a large group of people who all think alike and all share a similar vision of equality and evenness.

I agree with you on the part where the AFL don't give a sh*t about any number of WCE supporters complaining.

If the club lead the charge, some sections of the national media will start covering it. That's a start. It's likely the sycophantic Vic media will ignore it, as they're largely AFL controlled.

It's well and good to have high-minded ideals of bringing everyone together, but the real b*tch of the situation is in the how, given competing interests.

There's just too many tribalistic fans who revel in flipping the bird to the opposition and who care nothing for integrity, fairness, justice and so forth. Such fans unwittingly run interference for the AFL. The AFL need not do anything but let the disputing fans bicker among themselves. Tribalism is the nature of the beast we're up against. It's why I believe much more is needed than a weak fan-lead protest.

The club getting involved is a start, but a weak half-arsed effort will be mocked by the Vic-based supporters and the AFL. A weak threat or statement from the club will be ignored or mocked and lessen the club's credibility, so play hard, play to win, be prepared to go to extremes and don't threaten without the will to follow through. The fans can only protest, and the protestations of the plebs will be ignored. The club can hit the AFL where it hurts and really fu** their sh*t up if they're willing to get their hands dirty and forgo their stoic professionalism for the time being. If you want to win, prepare for a (metaphorical) fist fight, for the gentlemanly approach will get the club and its supporters nowhere. Either go hard or go home.
So what's the answer then? Either shut up and deal with it or piss off and leave us alone.

How will that fix the problem?

As you've said, relying on the clubs to bring about any change will never do anything. But history has shown that large groups of like minded people can create change.

At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that the imbalance between the Victorian and Non-Victorian clubs is real, its not changing, and not talking about it is not going to fix anything.
 

Pulsedriver

All Australian
Oct 21, 2017
777
1,161
AFL Club
West Coast
I'm hardly talking about going directly onto the main board, outlining a manifesto, and asking "Who is with me?". Of course it's going to be met with ridicule. It needs to be developed with a little more nuance than that. For example, visiting the Adelaide board and joining conversations when they rant about inequality. Finding Tasmanian and NT supporters who are frustrated at the AFL's neglect of their football loving communities. Slowly building a network of like minded people on Bigfooty.com. Hell, there are Hawthorn supporters out there at the moment, frustrated at the lack of integrity in this game. Even they would be open to SOME ideas.Over time then, even when the issue is brought up on the main board, there will be a large group of people who all think alike and all share a similar vision of equality and evenness.
It's all well and good to develop a group of like-minded folk to discuss such issues, but eventually this insular group is going to be exposed to the naysayers, and the naysayers are going to do the AFL's work for them by providing the obfuscation. The fans wanting equality don't have a leg to stand on, despite the legitimacy of their concerns, because there's no power to effect change. It's an exercise in futility, as well intentioned as it is.

So what's the answer then?
If you want to effect change as supporters, don't go after the AFL from the outset, but rather question what the club you support is doing about said issues. If the club you support puts it in the too hard, can't be f'd or content with the status quo basket, that's where you need to get answers from before focusing on a bigger target like the AFL. Like greatwhiteshark pointed out, unless supporters are willing to walk away and take their wallet with them, your words as individuals and as a group amount to empty talk. Supporters need to put their money where their mouth is and be willing to walk away. As JohnW so kindly highlighted by means of his personal stance, which I found to be suitably typical to use here: there's no chance in hell of that occurring in great enough numbers to effect any real change.

Either shut up and deal with it or piss off and leave us alone. How will that fix the problem?
That's never been my position.

WC pulling up stumps and walking away is a tactic to bring about the crucible. It's an all-in tactic, but winning requires calculated risk.

As you've said, relying on the clubs to bring about any change will never do anything.
Can you please quote me on that, for that sounds more like your position than mine.

But history has shown that large groups of like minded people can create change.
Historical precedence in a different setting there is, but has there been a collectivizing of fans in a situation similar to the AFL landscape? The AFL landscape with 10 teams in 1 state and the other 8 teams divided among 4 states creates a natural imbalance that makes this situation rather unique.

At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that the imbalance between the Victorian and Non-Victorian clubs is real, its not changing, and not talking about it is not going to fix anything.
I agree, it's just that your method and mine differ in dealing with the issue. There's no harm in talking and collectivizing in this instance if possible, but where you direct your focus should involve the club(s) and have its backing to provide the power needed to effect change.
 

Miguel Sanchez

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WC pulling up stumps and walking away is a tactic to bring about the crucible. It's an all-in tactic, but winning requires calculated risk.
Again, what does the West Coast Eagles football club do in the meantime after walking away from the AFL? Do they cease to trade? How long do you think they can afford to do that?

You’re coming up with some big bold ideas but they’re predicated on the AFL just caving, and pretty quickly. Do you actually think that’s likely?
 

ziad

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2009
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Again, what does the West Coast Eagles football club do in the meantime after walking away from the AFL? Do they cease to trade? How long do you think they can afford to do that?

You’re coming up with some big bold ideas but they’re predicated on the AFL just caving, and pretty quickly. Do you actually think that’s likely?
Ah, life on BF. let them dream.
 

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greatwhiteshark

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Oct 3, 2007
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But if enough other people were talking about it and discussing it, it might encourage more people to get on board.
I really do understand your frustration and the points you make.
You care about your club and other clubs treatment.
But look what these suits have done to our great game. They have turned Australian Rules Football into some hybrid sport called AFL and they have done it on our apathetic watch and we have sat back and not done a thing about it.
I can’t talk for others but in my circle of friends who have all lived and breathed Aussie Rules most of our lives our frustration is at what they have done to the sport itself, we don’t like this hybrid version of the game, it’s not the sport we all grew up playing and then coaching.
All of us as spectators, the media who have been purchased by the AFL, the clubs themselves, the CEO,s of those clubs and every former player have allowed this hybrid sport to replace Aussie Rules Football and most of them have done it for money and we the fans have provided them the money.
The fairness and integrity of the comp pails into insignificance compared to what they have done to this great sport and yet no one seems to care.
No one cares that head high contact is rife in the sport and unbelievably the suits have convinced everyone that it is the guy with the ball who is at fault. How is that possible?
The bloke first to the ball is no longer protected, no one cares.
Throwing and incorrect disposal doesn’t exist yet no one cares.
Ruckman have to nominate like Auskick kids yet no one cares.
Holding the man is not paid anymore, yet no one cares.
50m penalty’s are given against blokes who are just running down the field, they are not interfering yet no one cares.
They don’t even kick the ball back into play from the goal square now and no one blinked an eye.

They have f’ed a once great sport and they have done it on our watch who like sheep just keep handing over the cash and turning up.
When you provide an open license for an organisation to actually change the actual sport itself into another sport and they manage to do it without any resistance then unfortunately fairness and integrity is clearly not going to change.
And as the clubs themselves are as guilty as the AFL themselves for stuffing the sport there is no way they will help fix anything.
The fans won’t either as they didn’t care either about the sport.
It,s one huge mess, but it’s a huge mess lining many thousands of people’s pockets.
I am so glad I grew up in the era I did where Aussie RuLes was the sport and all we cared about was did we win or lose.
I still watch and follow the Eagles in this hybrid sport but I will never hand over a cent again to any AFL club.
 

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