News Jnr Rioli - He’s back.

[ChrisKaias]

Thanks for providing this link! Good reading and actually offers me some hope of Willie being not suspended at all.

I'm not sure why you left out 17.4 and 17.5 and said you were reluctant to mention this? I'm gathering because you assume Willie was clearly at fault and you assume ASADA carried out their duties appropriately. I'm of the belied that if the ASADA representative with Willie at the time was negligent or failed to fulfil their duty to the players welfare then this could be an avenue to pursue.

Below are some further excerpts from the ASADA AFL Code:

17.4 Elimination of the Period of Ineligibility where there is No Fault or Negligence
If a Player or other Person establishes in an individual case that he or she bears No Fault or Negligence, then the otherwise applicable period on Ineligibility shall be eliminated.

I would say, based on the "facts" we have currently, there is an option for the legal team to pursue Negligence/Non-fulfilment of duty, by the ASADA staff with Willie at the time. I'm sure they take their notes and ask Willie to sign a document to cover their asses but is this enough. Does Willie have full comprehension of the clauses and outcomes if he makes a poor decisions.

More from the ASADA AFL Code

17.5 Reduction of the Period of Ineligibility Based on No Significant Fault or Negligence

Application of No Significant Fault or No Significant Negligence beyond the Application of Clause 17.5(a) If a Player or other Person establishes in an individual case where clause 17.5(a) is not applicable, that he or she bears No Significant Fault or Negligence, then, subject to further reduction or elimination as provided in clause 17.6, the otherwise applicable period of Ineligibility may be reduced based on the Player or other Person’s degree of Fault, but the reduced period of Ineligibility may not be less than one-half of the period of Ineligibility otherwise applicable

With regards to 17.4, No Fault or Negligence, it's just not an argument that would even be attempted. It really is for the category of injected while unconscious or sabotaged by a competitor. Have a look at footnote 28 and that gives you some suggestions of things which are still not considered No Fault or Negligence, including sabotage by a coach, jilted spouse or friend (because you have some control over who you surround yourself with). The facts in this case just don't allow for this incredibly rare defence to even be tried.

With regards to 17.5, it doesn't apply. See footnote 30 as to why.

 

[Ok Boomer]

Not fluent in English is an extremely long bow.

He may not be a wordsmith, but he is perfectly capable.

 

[Fyfster]

One way to Docker fan hearts is by bashing WCE.

I like it how he will call a meeting and tell players to pull their head in.

Yeah good effective coaching Summa. I wonder how many course he needed to attend to come up with only that.

Didn't endear himself to me . I have gone right off him. Thought it strange that he would challenge the rest of the group before it was even established what if anything that Willie had taken .

 

[ziad]

Didn't endear himself to me . I have gone right off him. Thought it strange that he would challenge the rest of the group before it was even established what if anything that Willie had taken .

Corporations dont employ loose cannons as their public face. he will not coach the dockers sadly

 

[bUCKET__]

What is the legal definition of a urine sample? That is, when does a urine sample become a urine sample?

Is it the moment the player touches the cup? The moment a drop of urine hits the cup? The moment the urine passes the line? The moment the lid is sealed? The moment the sample is signed for? Something else?

If the sample contained nothing but non-urine, it may be argued that it was not a urine sample at all, and therefore no urine sample has been tampered with.

If the sample contained urine and non-urine, a defence would be tougher, but would still depend on the legal standard.

If he hasn't pissed, you must desist!

 

[Benji85]

If Willie has had a massive brain fade like I assume he has he'll go for a year, backdated to September 2019.
It appears that he's acted out of frustration, and not to disguise any wrong doing. So many people, including a certain mod from another board, just assume he's ripped a few bongs.....because he Aboriginal which I think is piss poor.

We'll know more in the months to come but I can't see ASADA coming down like the hammer of thor on him, if what is coming out now is true.

Completley agree with having a club medico present during these tests though, stop them doing something dumb like this again. I don't know how feasible it is considering they can rock up your house @ 5 a.m and demand a sample from you but there might something they can do there..

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Corporations dont employ loose cannons as their public face.

Not twice in a row, anyway

 

[DirtySandman]

I assume he has he'll go for a year, backdated to September 2019

Maybe, two years, one suspended, because....well......AFL

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Completley agree with having a club medico present during these tests though, stop them doing something dumb like this again. I don't know how feasible it is considering they can rock up your house @ 5 a.m and demand a sample from you but there might something they can do there..

Not sure ASADA would be comfortable with club reps at these tests - that would mean a certain level of pre-warning is required so that they may attend. May pose too much of a risk for "tip offs" for dodgy sportfolk

 

[kerr87]

Not sure ASADA would be comfortable with club reps at these tests - that would mean a certain level of pre-warning is required so that they may attend. May pose too much of a risk for "tip offs" for dodgy sportfolk

When Asada come by, the player can call the club contact to come around and just wait to provide a sample until they arrive. No issue with it really. Just need a club rep to be available at anytime.

 

[Broken_Chairs]

When Asada come by, the player can call the club contact to come around and just wait to provide a sample until they arrive. No issue with it really. Just need a club rep to be available at anytime.

Could work - though I guess that becomes more of a "if a player wants them there" sort of thing rather than a requirement. I imagine most would want it done & dusted as fast as possible with limited hassle/eyes on them.

 

[Godfather32]

Could work - though I guess that becomes more of a "if a player wants them there" sort of thing rather than a requirement. I imagine most would want it done & dusted as fast as possible with limited hassle/eyes on them.

Depends as well, these tests seem to happen quite often at training or after games where presumably there'd be officials all over the place

 

[Broken_Chairs]

Random side thought - approximately 7% of men suffer from avoidant paruresis (or shy bladder).

How do these guys do WADA testing? Do they just never make it as athletes?

 

[southcoast]

Corporations dont employ loose cannons as their public face. he will not coach the dockers sadly

I've stated something similar in this thread but I fully agree - methinks Suma has shot himself in the foot as far as Freo go.

 

[southcoast]

Was he at the club or at home?

Saturdays West said he was tapped on the shoulder at training.

 

[Wild Kelly]

Not sure ASADA would be comfortable with club reps at these tests - that would mean a certain level of pre-warning is required so that they may attend. May pose too much of a risk for "tip offs" for dodgy sportfolk

Maybe have a designated employee on permanent standby to be contacted by the player when/if they have been chosen or called on. If the ASADA people can wait 2 or 3 hours for a sample from a player who is piss shy or dehydrated then they can wait 30 minutes for the Eagles rep to attend.

 

[Wosh]

Jonathon Brown said on The Couch that the Brisbane Lions it was a policy that you had to have an official or a doctor with you as you gave a sample.

He also said “From a workplace health and safety thing they’re (ASADA official) not allowed to say anything or not allowed to pull you up if you do the wrong thing, potential to risk an altercation if a player gets their back up if they’re accused”

They also said that Sumich’s statement was mind boggling and extraordinary.

 

[Godfather32]

Jonathon Brown said on The Couch that the Brisbane Lions it was a policy that you had to have an official or a doctor with you as you gave a sample.

He also said “From a workplace health and safety thing they’re (ASADA official) not allowed to say anything or not allowed to pull you up if you do the wrong thing, potential to risk an altercation if a player gets their back up if they’re accused”

They also said that Sumich’s statement was mind boggling and extraordinary.

Wish we had that policy

 

[Wosh]

Wish we had that policy

Well I’m sure we will now. This is so unprecedented that its like our bad druggie period, you live and learn
Worst part of this whole thing is according to all reports Willies blood tests came out negative for any banned or illicit substance. I mean, we don’t know anything confirmed yet but gosh...

Brown also said that once he sat at the club bar for hours drinking pots with the ASADA official next to him until he could do a pee. They don’t care how you give the sample, they just take it, seal it and send it off with the report. The onus is completely on the player what they give them, makes perfect sense.

 

[Hap Hapablap]

the bigger issue i have atm is that asada arent making any comments creating a further vortex of innuendo and heresay on rioli

if he legit had nothing in his system and just tampered out of frusturation he will walk away with a short sentence.

it is absurd to suspend someone for tampering based on dehydration where others who are drug users get away with the strike system

 

[Jiggyman]

ASADA test professional athletes all over the world, they won't want to set a precedent that messing around with the sample process is in any way acceptable. Hopeful for 2 years, but prepare for the worst.

He also said “From a workplace health and safety thing they’re (ASADA official) not allowed to say anything or not allowed to pull you up if you do the wrong thing, potential to risk an altercation if a player gets their back up if they’re accused”

Understandable. And are clubs really permitted to have a representative observe the process? If so, I'm surprised that we don't have the same policy as Brisbane (edit: and if we did, why they didn't stick their head in as Godfather32 suggests below).

 

[Godfather32]

the bigger issue i have atm is that asada arent making any comments creating a further vortex of innuendo and heresay on rioli

if he legit had nothing in his system and just tampered out of frusturation he will walk away with a short sentence.

it is absurd to suspend someone for tampering based on dehydration where others who are drug users get away with the strike system

I don't think they're allowed to comment are they?
As frustrating as it is the fault lies with Willie and to some extent the club (you'd have thought that after 3 or 4 hours someone from the club would have at least stuck their head in the door to find out what was going on and to support Willie, in fact you'd hope it'd be a lot quicker than that).
Asada won't want to let him off because it creates a precedent for other athletes to claim the same thing.
Going to be a terrible waste of a career and it's a massive shame it's happened to someone who is by all reports a great guy but I think he goes for at least 2 years. Hopefully I'm wrong and he's back playing next year.

 

[Wosh]

ASADA test professional athletes all over the world, they won't want to set a precedent that messing around with the sample process is in any way acceptable. Hopeful for 2 years, but prepare for the worst.



Understandable. And are clubs really permitted to have a representative observe the process? If so, I'm surprised that we don't have the same policy as Brisbane.

According to Brown it was a policy at Brissie, you had to have a club official or doctor present (he said not sure if it still is) but obviously if they were doing it ASADA had no issue with it. I guess as time goes on with all this mess, we will hear more from the club about our policies and what actually happened and will happen in the future.

 

[Wosh]

the bigger issue i have atm is that asada arent making any comments creating a further vortex of innuendo and heresay on rioli

if he legit had nothing in his system and just tampered out of frusturation he will walk away with a short sentence.

it is absurd to suspend someone for tampering based on dehydration where others who are drug users get away with the strike system

ASADA are just doing thier job, they don’t owe the AFL or the Eagles or Willie or anyone else any explanations. All players would be educated and thoroughly aware of the protocols, no excuse.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Love some of your optimism but Willie is f*cked....and he has no one to blame but himself.

I’m tuning out of this crap - assuming 4 years, anything less is a bonus.