Winderlich's Back

[yaco55]

The plot thickens by the day.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

So your uncles "friend" found out about it... oh, ok, I get it now.

Well you couldn't have read the OP too thoroughly. In fairness to anf06, he clearly stated that someone told his uncle, and that it was not first-hand. There is no plot-thickening.

Besides, if he had said it was first hand, I tend to think that people would not give it anymore credibility anyway. So many people on BF have first hand knowledge, it really is quite amazing, lol.

 

[ant555]

quick question for ant555 about the operations:


the first one - is that the op you MUST have if you're experiencing back and/or shoulder problems, and theres only a 50-50 chance it'll be successful (hence the 2nd).

i've never been clear on the medical terms, but I do know many retired (45 yo+) footballers who've had a series of operations similar to the one you described.

if it is the case then I have a lot of sympathy for Winders for having that kind of issue at such a young age.

Depends on how damaged the disc is . The success rate for the opp is actually around 98%. Heaps of people have had it and returned to work with no problems. The bad news for me is i had three lower discs that are pretty much stuffed. As far as Winders goes the second operation was mainly a cleanup to make sure everthing was ok. In a person who was not going to play a high performance sport i doubt they would have gone in again. They would have let it settle down and there would probaly have been no problems. With Winderlich trying to get back on track to play footy it was better to have the second opp and try and clear up all issues quickly.

 

[anf06]

So your uncles "friend" found out about it... oh, ok, I get it now.

you obviously dont read, clearly in my OP i stressed the passing on of words.
basically, his cousin, who is 1 year out of football, still goes to the same specialist as winders, was told it.
dont shoot me. geeeesus

 

[yaco55]

you obviously dont read, clearly in my OP i stressed the passing on of words.
basically, his cousin, who is 1 year out of football, still goes to the same specialist as winders, was told it.
dont shoot me. geeeesus

But there has been a breach of client confidentiality and trust by the specialist.

 

[ant555]

you obviously dont read, clearly in my OP i stressed the passing on of words.
basically, his cousin, who is 1 year out of football, still goes to the same specialist as winders, was told it.
dont shoot me. geeeesus

I can tell you that i would be rather pissed off if my specialist or any member of his staff was givng out info .

 

[anf06]

I can tell you that i would be rather pissed off if my specialist or any member of his staff was givng out info .

i totally agree.
im just sharing what i've heard.

 

[anf06]

But there has been a breach of client confidentiality and trust by the specialist.

i've never said it was true, i wasn't told it first hand so i can't claim that at all.
again, just passing on what i have been told, it's a good discussion topic (his back, not the passing of info)

i have no doubt that my uncle was told this info, whether it was exaggerated to him is another story. but he told me exactly what he was told.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Come on. He did not just play one good game. i only made reference to that game simply becasue it was on Fox the other day and i was watching it.
I never said he was a star but his running in that game showed how important he can be.
PL as for him not backing it up or being a one game wonder try 2007. He had 10 games out of 17 with 20 plus disposals and a couple of 19 disposal games.

I remember his form that season. I was impressed by his gut running. But his impact in those matches was still not enough to say he will make it as a player. For mine, his first year was his most impressive.

Has always been too light for the style of game he tries to play and is always injured.

He has a lot of work to do as he has been passed by quite a few of the younger players.

We always talk about how we over-estimated our list - he is one of those younger players who was talked up - but compared to the rest of the class in his draft - is a long way behind the 8-ball and somewhat lucky to be on a list.

 

[stay true]

He's a good and quite important player for us, but that's not really the point of this thread.

IF this has some truth to it, then I'll be very disappointed. Would be a shame to see a player with his work ethic have his career cut short.

 

[Big Blow Hard]

I can tell you that i would be rather pissed off if my specialist or any member of his staff was givng out info .

I would be too. Doesn't mean it didn't happen though. Hopefully a specialist would be more professional.
Probably more likely this person saw Winderlich there, recognized him, and put 2 + 2 together. And like most who do that, came up with the wrong concluusion.

 

[yaco55]

Professional standards/client confidentiality are much lower in Asia.

 

[ant555]

I remember his form that season. I was impressed by his gut running. But his impact in those matches was still not enough to say he will make it as a player

Can not agree at all. His running in the last quarter of a number of games really helped us. When there was no one else prepared to off a lead he was running 80 meters to offer an option so we did not have to kick to a contest. In the game we won against the Eagles three times in the last quarter he ran from the opposite wing to give us an option . Footy is not all about the falshy stuff. His form that season was just as good as Sam Lonergans this year.

For mine, his first year was his most impressive.

You can't be serious . He played 3 games in his first year and had 6 , 8 and 4 possesions. Even in his second year where he played 6 games he only reached double figures once.

Has always been too light for the style of game he tries to play and is always injured.

How is he too light to play a running midfielder ?
As far as always being injured well yes he has and most of it caused by the lower back problem he has had operated on.

He has a lot of work to do as he has been passed by quite a few of the younger players

Passed by quite a few. Who is quite a few ?
Lonergan who has had one good year and averaged less disposals that Winderlich did in 2007 or 2008. Im not knocking Sam as i think he will be good for us but he was also lucky to be on the list and his best year so far was not as good as Winderlichs in 2007.
Reimers who has not played a lot of midfield so is not challenging for the same spot.
Houli who has shown he can find the ball but like his junior days is has also had long stints on the sideline with injurys in both seasons.
Dempsey who can't even go one match without getting injured.
Myers who probaly will pass him but is still only a second year player.

We always talk about how we over-estimated our list - he is one of those younger players who was talked up - but compared to the rest of the class in his draft - is a long way behind the 8-ball and somewhat lucky to be on a list.

Talked up by a few and he was disapointing in his first 4 seasons due to inury and personal motivation. Yes he is lucky that the club stuck with him. Nine times out of ten he would have been out the door.
Not sure what the rest of his class has to do with him being in our best 22 but i would not say he is a long way behind the 8 ball. He has not performed to the level of a few players but the 2002 draft was not exactly vintage. there are a few reasobaly good players at the top end including Goddard , Wells, Salopek, J McVeigh , Mackie and McIntosh all picked before him. But if you look at the players picked around him they are an ordinary lot in general. Tim Welsh pick 4 , Luke Brennan pick 8 , Jay Shultz pick 12 , Byron Schammer pick 13 , Daniel Bell pick 14 , Nicholas Smith pick 15, Cameron Faulkner pick 17 ,Kris Shore pick 18 and Bo Nixon pick 21. No real star quality there and i would not say Winderlich is a long way behind these guys. There a re few afte him that are also ok in T Sellwood , Minson (no star) Jared Rivers , Daniel Merrit but that is about it. It was certainly the wrong year for us to have 4 picks in the top 30
Winderlich's form in 2007 and 2008 was good enough for him to be in our best 22. The stats and results are there for anyone to see. He is lucky he is still on the list. He is not an A grade midfielder but he has the run and consistancy (when not injured) to play a big part in the midfield rotations.

 

[The_Young_Gun]

you obviously dont read, clearly in my OP i stressed the passing on of words.
basically, his cousin, who is 1 year out of football, still goes to the same specialist as winders, was told it.
dont shoot me. geeeesus

I was just been smart with ya, man...

No point in getting defensive...

 

[Kickett Punches Read]

Can not agree at all. His running in the last quarter of a number of games really helped us. When there was no one else prepared to off a lead he was running 80 meters to offer an option so we did not have to kick to a contest. In the game we won against the Eagles three times in the last quarter he ran from the opposite wing to give us an option . Footy is not all about the falshy stuff. His form that season was just as good as Sam Lonergans this year.



You can't be serious . He played 3 games in his first year and had 6 , 8 and 4 possesions. Even in his second year where he played 6 games he only reached double figures once.



How is he too light to play a running midfielder ?
As far as always being injured well yes he has and most of it caused by the lower back problem he has had operated on.



Passed by quite a few. Who is quite a few ?
Lonergan who has had one good year and averaged less disposals that Winderlich did in 2007 or 2008. Im not knocking Sam as i think he will be good for us but he was also lucky to be on the list and his best year so far was not as good as Winderlichs in 2007.
Reimers who has not played a lot of midfield so is not challenging for the same spot.
Houli who has shown he can find the ball but like his junior days is has also had long stints on the sideline with injurys in both seasons.
Dempsey who can't even go one match without getting injured.
Myers who probaly will pass him but is still only a second year player.



Talked up by a few and he was disapointing in his first 4 seasons due to inury and personal motivation. Yes he is lucky that the club stuck with him. Nine times out of ten he would have been out the door.
Not sure what the rest of his class has to do with him being in our best 22 but i would not say he is a long way behind the 8 ball. He has not performed to the level of a few players but the 2002 draft was not exactly vintage. there are a few reasobaly good players at the top end including Goddard , Wells, Salopek, J McVeigh , Mackie and McIntosh all picked before him. But if you look at the players picked around him they are an ordinary lot in general. Tim Welsh pick 4 , Luke Brennan pick 8 , Jay Shultz pick 12 , Byron Schammer pick 13 , Daniel Bell pick 14 , Nicholas Smith pick 15, Cameron Faulkner pick 17 ,Kris Shore pick 18 and Bo Nixon pick 21. No real star quality there and i would not say Winderlich is a long way behind these guys. There a re few afte him that are also ok in T Sellwood , Minson (no star) Jared Rivers , Daniel Merrit but that is about it. It was certainly the wrong year for us to have 4 picks in the top 30
Winderlich's form in 2007 and 2008 was good enough for him to be in our best 22. The stats and results are there for anyone to see. He is lucky he is still on the list. He is not an A grade midfielder but he has the run and consistancy (when not injured) to play a big part in the midfield rotations.

schammer will end up being the best of that whole list now that he is injury free. although you in melbourne wont have seen much of him

but wasnt there an article in the sun about winders and how he was happy to be back on track and ready to go? he had blistering pace and looked a real talent from an outsider looking in, hope he is recovering as the article suggested

 

[ant555]

Running laps at training yesterday

 

[table tennis]

Running laps at training yesterday

I take it Ant, your not a real fan of Pevers-Legend!

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, in that he showed promise and does bust his guts. but, if he doesnt get his back issue sorted, then he is just another clog in the list artery.

I love the bloke, but if he has another set back, i think it will be the final nail in the coffin.

Hope he gets it right, as, if fit, adds plenty more depth to our strengthening list.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Can not agree at all. His running in the last quarter of a number of games really helped us. When there was no one else prepared to off a lead he was running 80 meters to offer an option so we did not have to kick to a contest. In the game we won against the Eagles three times in the last quarter he ran from the opposite wing to give us an option . Footy is not all about the falshy stuff. His form that season was just as good as Sam Lonergans this year.

Different players - becoming a good in and under player is much harder than a wingman IMO. But you would have to say Lonergan is ahead of him - he has form on his side (including fitness).

You can't be serious . He played 3 games in his first year and had 6 , 8 and 4 possesions. Even in his second year where he played 6 games he only reached double figures once.

My comment there was I guess a little tongue-in-cheek - but he showed his potential in those games including a thumping kick. I don't think he can kick the ball 50m now. Seems like his kicking has suffered (perhaps due to injuries).

How is he too light to play a running midfielder ?
As far as always being injured well yes he has and most of it caused by the lower back problem he has had operated on.

He is a running mid - but he always tries to go in for the bash and crash - and 9 times out of 10 is tackled like a rag-dole. That I admire as it shows his commitment and enthusiasm, but it doesn't help him.

Passed by quite a few. Who is quite a few ?
Lonergan who has had one good year and averaged less disposals that Winderlich did in 2007 or 2008. Im not knocking Sam as i think he will be good for us but he was also lucky to be on the list and his best year so far was not as good as Winderlichs in 2007.
Reimers who has not played a lot of midfield so is not challenging for the same spot.
Houli who has shown he can find the ball but like his junior days is has also had long stints on the sideline with injurys in both seasons.
Dempsey who can't even go one match without getting injured.
Myers who probaly will pass him but is still only a second year player.

In terms of selection for spots - he is competing with guys like Reimers, Houli, Jetta, Davey, Monfries and Myers - and I wouldn't select him ahead of any of those players now.

Talked up by a few and he was disapointing in his first 4 seasons due to inury and personal motivation. Yes he is lucky that the club stuck with him. Nine times out of ten he would have been out the door.
Not sure what the rest of his class has to do with him being in our best 22 but i would not say he is a long way behind the 8 ball. He has not performed to the level of a few players but the 2002 draft was not exactly vintage. there are a few reasobaly good players at the top end including Goddard , Wells, Salopek, J McVeigh , Mackie and McIntosh all picked before him. But if you look at the players picked around him they are an ordinary lot in general. Tim Welsh pick 4 , Luke Brennan pick 8 , Jay Shultz pick 12 , Byron Schammer pick 13 , Daniel Bell pick 14 , Nicholas Smith pick 15, Cameron Faulkner pick 17 ,Kris Shore pick 18 and Bo Nixon pick 21. No real star quality there and i would not say Winderlich is a long way behind these guys. There a re few afte him that are also ok in T Sellwood , Minson (no star) Jared Rivers , Daniel Merrit but that is about it. It was certainly the wrong year for us to have 4 picks in the top 30

Really he should be compared with McVeigh, Watson and Welsh and that is why I mentioned his class. Players his age have matured, have been given the flick, or also are symptomatic of where their club is at.

Winderlich's form in 2007 and 2008 was good enough for him to be in our best 22. The stats and results are there for anyone to see. He is lucky he is still on the list. He is not an A grade midfielder but he has the run and consistancy (when not injured) to play a big part in the midfield rotations.

I agree he was in our best in 2007, by seasons end of 2008 I disagree. The devleopment of the younger players show they have more upside than

Happy to agree to disagree - but pumping up the tyres of this guy really makes people look foolish. He is not rated outside Essendon and there is a reason for this (and I am ignoring the type of idioits who think Watson is a crap footballer).

It is make or break - I hope his back is ok irrespective of football as I know how backs can impact on our day to day lives. For me he is no different to Dyson - perform or else.

 

[Smyth94]

I agree he was in our best in 2007, by seasons end of 2008 I disagree. The devleopment of the younger players show they have more upside than

Happy to agree to disagree - but pumping up the tyres of this guy really makes people look foolish. He is not rated outside Essendon and there is a reason for this (and I am ignoring the type of idioits who think Watson is a crap footballer).

It is make or break - I hope his back is ok irrespective of football as I know how backs can impact on our day to day lives. For me he is no different to Dyson - perform or else.

How you've argued that our younger players have gone past Winders based on what they've shown on the field is beyond me. The only way you can mount a case for our young'uns to pass Winderlich is durability - and unfortunately its not that hard to be more durable than Winderlich.

I'm sick of the collective myopia that Essendon supporters have RE: Winderlich - have you wiped 2007 from your minds, 'Men In Black' style?

He isn't rated outside Essendon? Based on who's opinion? Your's? BF's? What rubbish.

Tip - If the coaching staff didn't rate him he would've been given the flick 2 years ago

 

[yaco55]

I agree that this is a make or break year for Winderlich to prove his fitness.

And you could argue this for Dempsey and Neagle.

Winderlich ( when fit ) is as important as Davey.

 

[ant555]

I take it Ant, your not a real fan of Pevers-Legend!
I agree with a lot of what you are saying, in that he showed promise and does bust his guts. but, if he doesnt get his back issue sorted, then he is just another clog in the list artery.

I love the bloke, but if he has another set back, i think it will be the final nail in the coffin.

Hope he gets it right, as, if fit, adds plenty more depth to our strengthening list.

Nothing to do with not being a fan of PL. I agree with a lot he has to say but in this case i don't. I think he short sold a few of Winderlichs achievments in 2007 and before he was injued in 2008.

 

[anf06]

Running laps at training yesterday

Good news

The bigger problem with his type of operation is the twisting and the bending. He had a bulging disk correct?

 

[ant555]

Different players - becoming a good in and under player is much harder than a wingman IMO. But you would have to say Lonergan is ahead of him - he has form on his side (including fitness).

Fitness is the difference but in saying that Lonergan has only had one full season to date and Lonergan also has a slightly dodgy back that can give him hamstring problems which did happen last year.

My comment there was I guess a little tongue-in-cheek - but he showed his potential in those games including a thumping kick. I don't think he can kick the ball 50m now. Seems like his kicking has suffered (perhaps due to injuries).

The kicking is realted to his back problem. He played in pain a lot of the time which effected his kicking. Who knows if he can get that long kicking game back.

In terms of selection for spots - he is competing with guys like Reimers, Houli, Jetta, Davey, Monfries and Myers - and I wouldn't select him ahead of any of those players now.

I dont think he is actually competing for the spot that Jetta or Davey play but he is competing against the likes of Reimers, Houli and Myers. I would not select him in front of Reimers or Myers. I am not completly sold on Houli yet. So far he has only shown he can run in front of the ball and win a few possessions and he has not shown he can get through a season witout injury.

Really he should be compared with McVeigh, Watson and Welsh and that is why I mentioned his class. Players his age have matured, have been given the flick, or also are symptomatic of where their club is at.

Compare him with Watson yes but McVeigh and Welsh have two or three more years experience.

I agree he was in our best in 2007, by seasons end of 2008 I disagree. The devleopment of the younger players show they have more upside than

The younger players probaly do have more upside but they still have to prove they can consistantly play to a higher level.

Happy to agree to disagree - but pumping up the tyres of this guy really makes people look foolish. He is not rated outside Essendon and there is a reason for this (and I am ignoring the type of idioits who think Watson is a crap footballer).

For a start i don't think i am pumping his tyres up. Its not like i am saying he is Judd or Hodge. The only reason i voiced my opinion originally was people where saying he only played one good game. If you look at his recored that is clearly not the case.
Of cousre he is not rated that highly outside of Essendon. The reason for that is
a) he is not a super star. He is a reasonably good player with pace
and
b)injury has prevented him from reaching his maximum potential.

It is make or break - I hope his back is ok irrespective of football as I know how backs can impact on our day to day lives. For me he is no different to Dyson - perform or else.

I agree it is certainly make or break and he is already behind the eight ball. You are right in saying he is in the same position as Dyson or Hocking for that matter. All three will have to play some good footy or they will be out at the end of the year.

 

[ant555]

Good news

The bigger problem with his type of operation is the twisting and the bending. He had a bulging disk correct?

Running is just as big a problem. Still has a long road ahead but in terms of when he had the operation he is on track. Running or moresome physical excersize at about 8 weeks out is around nromal.

 

[Enki]

I am not completly sold on Houli yet. So far he has only shown he can run in front of the ball and win a few possessions and he has not shown he can get through a season witout injury.

So it isn't just me? Phew. All my Essendon supporting friends think he is going to be a star, and while I hope he is a great player (and I think he should be reasonable, assuming his body doesn't hold him back) based on what I've seen of him so far I'm not as certain as they are. Of course I'll keep watching him and if he starts to remove my doubts all the better for Essendon (and our march towards victory, well hopefully).