With introducing GC and GWS has the AFL spent its money wisely?

[TedDougChris]

Pretty sure any business analyst would tell you that the expenditure is worth it and the returns add up. And we all know the AFL is only interested in $$$$$$

On SM-T355Y using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[branedotorg]

i really like the gws expansion approach (from a team creation pov).

give them heaps of talent to build with but limit the ability to keep them all, with the excess traded back into the system for future draft picks.

they'll build a sustained 5-10 year success period that should serve them well for winning the locals over.

 

[100action]

Naah
Best investment ever made, capital exoenditute to get a guarranteed result. Pòorly spent money is that spent propping up the Bulldogs in an overcrowded marketplace, when less clubs not more is the long term goal.The club has a long history of being unsuccessful and it's the classic story of pouring good money after bad.

 

[Bokonon_]

Useful contribution to the debate right there.

 

[Always Ballin]

A Tasmanian and Darwin team would thrive.

 

[Rotayjay]

Well GWS will start pulling their weight when they can average more than 19,000 people at home, and be successful without academies. Same goes for you Swans, but without the crowd problem.

 

[citizen-erased]

That didnt take long. Dogs are up and about after acraping through against the Lions i see.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

id love to know why GWS rub them up the wrong way so much.
Ward and Griffen perhaps?

Anyhoo. I think both clubs are a good idea.
I'd like to see another expansion in the near future. Perhaps 5-6 years.
Another SA and WA club each.

10 clubs in Vic, 10 clubs out.
Vic clubs play 5 games outside Vic each season
2 games in WA and SA each weekend.

19 game season.
Everyone plays everyone once.
Reverse the home fixtures each year

Top 12 for finals
Top 4 1st week off
5-12 into play off finals (return bouts, pts difference as the decider if wins are split) = 2 rounds
Winning 4 play top 4 in elimination games (return bouts) = 2 rounds
Into Prelims (return bouts) = 2 rounds
Into GF = 1 round

26 games up to the GF.

 

[Ok Boomer]

GWS will succeed, even if they don't win a flag soon. The Suns won't.

 

[citizen-erased]

A Tasmanian and Darwin team would thrive.

Darwin team would be awesome.
Would love the AFL and Fed/State Govt's to financially back it to the hilt and make it a force of industry for the area.

Academies/zones, coaching, local programs, stadium, etc.

 

[Cmarsh]

Had to laugh at the OP questioning if the money would have been better spent on investing in grassroots.

Since GWS arrived, grassroots junior footy in Western Sydney has grown hugely.

 

[coniglio_number1]

id love to know why GWS rub them up the wrong way so much.

They started hating us when they beat us in the prelim. The hate has only fermented during the offseason.

I'm still confused about why they obsess about a team they beat. It's almost like we knocked them out of finals?

 

[Ichabod Noodle]

 

[Deep]

GWS is money poorly spent.

Should've been Canberra
Just like GC should've been Tassie

 

[Deep]

A Tasmanian and Darwin team would thrive.

The 140K people living in Darwin would at least get behind it. It probably should happen before the NRL sinks the teeth in first and if it does the AFL won't stand a chance there.

 

[Deep]

id love to know why GWS rub them up the wrong way so much.
Ward and Griffen perhaps?

Anyhoo. I think both clubs are a good idea.
I'd like to see another expansion in the near future. Perhaps 5-6 years.
Another SA and WA club each.

10 clubs in Vic, 10 clubs out.
Vic clubs play 5 games outside Vic each season
2 games in WA and SA each weekend.

19 game season.
Everyone plays everyone once.
Reverse the home fixtures each year

Top 12 for finals
Top 4 1st week off
5-12 into play off finals (return bouts, pts difference as the decider if wins are split) = 2 rounds
Winning 4 play top 4 in elimination games (return bouts) = 2 rounds
Into Prelims (return bouts) = 2 rounds
Into GF = 1 round

26 games up to the GF.

Whilst I'm cool for another WA & SA team I do believe Tassie, Darwin and Canberra need teams first although the WA and SA teams are much more likely and have much higher chances of people getting behind it due to population difference.

You'd think two teams from state leagues would need to merge though, wouldn't you? Such as Norwood with Sturt.

 

[Mattdougie]

In plain terms Giants will survive and prosper in a growing AFL market.
Gold coast will wither and die until notth or stkilda get relocated there.

That should feed you for awhile.

Do u have any idea of the numbers of youth playing AFL on the GC compared to West Sydney?

GWS will forever be a money drain but will continue carried by the league. The Suns may work but it won't be for a very long time and it too will be a drain.

 

[Bokonon_]

They started hating us when they beat us in the prelim. The hate has only fermented during the offseason.

I'm still confused about why they obsess about a team they beat. It's almost like we knocked them out of finals?

It was earlier than that, there was nastiness after our round 9 game last year. I think if you're a struggling club not confident about your future, the creation of a new team and the necessary investment naturally arouses jealousy.

 

[Red Black and Blue]

6-7 years into a twenty year plan, far too soon.

 

[bombersfan4000]

The 140K people living in Darwin would at least get behind it. It probably should happen before the NRL sinks the teeth in first and if it does the AFL won't stand a chance there.

The Nrl won't be sinking their teeth in anywhere! In the next decade as their have their own problems at the moment! A lot more than the AFL

 

[NoobPie]

The 140K people living in Darwin would at least get behind it. It probably should happen before the NRL sinks the teeth in first and if it does the AFL won't stand a chance there.

Chances of the nrl putting an expansion team in Darwin are about 20% of the very low chance of the afl doing so....an isolated population of 140k is hardly a massive vacuum for a professional football club to fill.

 

[NoobPie]

Well GWS will start pulling their weight when they can average more than 19,000 people at home, and be successful without academies. Same goes for you Swans, but without the crowd problem.

Running successful academies is partly how they are pulling their weights

 

[Garlic muncher]

Do u have any idea of the numbers of youth playing AFL on the GC compared to West Sydney?

GWS will forever be a money drain but will continue carried by the league. The Suns may work but it won't be for a very long time and it too will be a drain.

I did a rough one a coupe of years ago, footy is much bigger on the GC than in WS.

As a comparison the population on the GC is about 500,000 + and there is about 4,000 kids playing, the population of Perth is 2,000,000, Perth has 9 WAFL districts and each district has between 4,000 -5,000 kids playing, some may have even more, each WAFL district services about 200,000 - 250,000 people with the boundaries changed every so often to even it out.

http://www.aflgrassrootsluncheon.com.au/page.php?About-2

Few years ago now ^^^

 

[BringBackTorps]

The Nrl won't be sinking their teeth in anywhere! In the next decade as their have their own problems at the moment! A lot more than the AFL

If the Force RU team is shut down, the NRL almost certainly will want to create/relocate a NRL team to Perth...perfect for a 4.30 Sunday game televised to the east coast, huge ratings for NRL. Increase in NRL TV rights.

Plus a "natural" support base in Perth -big. pop. of UK, Kiwi, South African expats, healthy GR RU regd. nos. -who would within a few years switch to GR RL, & follow NRL. NRL has had good crowds for NRL games there.

Apart from WS of Syd., GWS has been responsible for boosting GR regd. nos. in the ACT to the highest level since 1984. And, from 2000-2012, AFL draft nos. collapsed from sthn. NSW -but, with the GWS BRANDED Academies, draft nos. have significantly increased.

GC regd. GR AF nos. are also booming (G/Muncher's figures above do not include the huge primary & secondary school nos. on the GC). SEQ AF regd .nos now similar to RL contact regd. nos. GC had crowds c.21,000 when it was competitive.

The AFL investment is very wise -52% of Aust.'s pop. lives in NSW, Qld, & ACT; 50% plus of top ASX 200 companies HQ's there.

 

[Power Raid]

We hear of the money being wasted on trying to make these 2 clubs successful. Was it a good idea? Are they paying their way?

Did we need to increase the competition from 16 to 18 teams?

Did they add to the TV rights? Maybe ... if so then that's a plus in their favour.

Would the money have been spent better elsewhere? Grass roots football? Higher salary caps for existing clubs? Larger playing lists? More coaches and Administrative staff?

100 or so footballers would not be playing at the top echelon of the game, some suggest the talent pool is already spread too thin ... maybe, maybe not ...

We hear that Tasmania cannot afford to fund a team long term yet if you gave them 100 million then kept buffering them every year like the Qld and NSW clubs I expect they would do fine and their supporter base would be less fickle because they are already an AFL state. Chances are though, they would have to be subsidized indefinitely ... are we ok with that?

Will the AFL have to one day make a call on Gold Coast or GWS or some other club even like they did with South Melbourne and Fitzroy?

They may need to fund Qld and NSW football indefinitely ... are we ok with that?

Thoughts that occur to me include:

The 2 new clubs are an extra game each week and extra in state rivalries in Qld and NSW.

All AFL clubs go through cycles where sometimes they are successful financially and on the ground and other times they struggle.

Hawthorn nearly went broke in 1997 ... both Collingwood and Richmond were on their knees in the late 1980's (remember Save our skins where we tin rattled and Carlton got behind us to play a veterans game at Windy Hill to rescue us from administrator mismanagement, thanks Blues) . Carlton too have had their moments needing to go cap in hand to their billionaire benefactors to stay afloat. Essendon has been largely buffered in recent years by wealthy coterie and business people.

We could have had an AFL without Hawthorn, Collingwood, Richmond, Carlton and Essendon, how would that have gone?

Other clubs like North, St Kilda, Melbourne the Bulldogs and Port have had to be subsidized by the AFL and stronger clubs over the past couple of decades. Remember Garry Buddha 'Whiskers' Hocking changing his name to make money for the broke Cats?

Do you want a competition? Half the clubs struggling today will be the powerhouses of tomorrow and one day they will again be the struggling clubs. Some will always be doing it tough but are important to our competition because we need them to be there playing each week and fighting to improve in the hope they will do a 2016 Bulldogs one day.

I know it irks me to see all the draft concessions made to these Northern clubs but I guess I am ok with the fact that we have 9 games every weekend and I can enjoy at least 22 weeks of the year when I know my team will be playing.

Premiership cups are shiny things that contribute heavily to alcohol poisoning (for the successful teams supporters for about 2 weeks) then become a footmark in history as everyone looks forward to the next season and the next chance to win one. One day GWS and Gold Coast may win one too.

I think the AFL will have to keep 5 or 6 clubs afloat every season and sometimes it will be my club they keep afloat. They will probably always be keeping Gold Coast and GWS afloat ... I guess I can live with it though as long as my team is there for me to barrack for in those guaranteed 22 games we get each season. The premiership is the goal but the journey is what keeps me riveted to the game for 30 weeks per year.

What are your thoughts?

some excellent points

as you rightly pointed out, some clubs should remember they were bankrupt and probably wouldn't exist today if not for expansion. I guess some are too young to remember and some forget very quickly.

so in fairness to the newest expansion clubs, let's answer the question of whether it was worth it in 30-40 years. this is about building footy support in non-footy jurisdictions and that is best measured in 2 generations. My prediction is......yes it was worth it

 

[Garlic muncher]

If the Force RU team is shut down, the NRL almost certainly will want to create/relocate a NRL team to Perth...perfect for a 4.30 Sunday game televised to the east coast, huge ratings for NRL. Increase in NRL TV rights.

Plus a "natural" support base in Perth -big. pop. of UK, Kiwi, South African expats, healthy GR RU regd. nos. -who would within a few years switch to GR RL, & follow NRL. NRL has had good crowds for NRL games there.

Apart from WS of Syd., GWS has been responsible for boosting GR regd. nos. in the ACT to the highest level since 1984. And, from 2000-2012, AFL draft nos. collapsed from sthn. NSW -but, with the GWS BRANDED Academies, draft nos. have significantly increased.

GC regd. GR AF nos. are also booming (G/Muncher's figures above do not include the huge primary & secondary school nos. on the GC). SEQ AF regd .nos now similar to RL contact regd. nos. GC had crowds c.21,000 when it was competitive.

The AFL investment is very wise -52% of Aust.'s pop. lives in NSW, Qld, & ACT; 50% plus of top ASX 200 companies HQ's there.

FME in Perth the RU crowd is far far bigger than the RL crowd, haven't heard what happened today to the WF, but the vibe i get is no teams will be cut, it seems to hard.

My numbers for Perth and the GC are based on club registered numbers.

Probably up significantly in the GC and Perth due to girls footy ATM.