Woggabaliri | BigFooty
  1. New Image Editor now Live

    A basic image editor is now available to all users. Improvements are still in the works, but it is usable right now. Just hit "Edit Image" when you upload an image into a post. Try It ...

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice

Woggabaliri

Discussion in 'AFL - The Australian Football League' started by Chaz Pendlebury, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Chaz Pendlebury

    Chaz Pendlebury Club Legend

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    1,186
    Location:
    London
    This sounds like a joke and will almost certainly turn out to be a joke.

    Woggabaliri is apparently a game played by aborigines in central NSW pre-eurpean settlement.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woggabaliri

    "Often confused as a variant of Marn Grook, Woggabaliri is a non-competitive game played with a ball made of Bulrush roots wrapped in possum fur where the aim is to keep the ball in the air using football (soccer) type skills of teamwork and ball control"

    Now, it is hard to see how it could have been often confused with anything, given that a google seach provides 74 results (a peter daicos 35 without "similar entries")

    It has been apparently included by the FFA in the bid book as a demonstration of Australia's milenia long affintiy with the round game.

    The first reference to the game appears to be 2007, when it was cited in a list of traditional aboriginal sports.

    http://www.dsr.nsw.gov.au/assets/pubs/sshorts/ss_august07.pdf

    The only historical reference to the game a regurgitated in WIKI is:

    Woggabaliri is recognised by the Australian Sports Commission as the oldest Indigenous game and is the earliest depicted, believed to be the subject of an engraving "never let the ball hit the ground" based on William Blandowski's observations in 1857 of camp life near Merbein, Victoria.[1]

    So from an etching that referred to a game that involved "never letting the ball hit the ground" in Victoria, with no apparent reference to what they are doing with their hands, it has been extrapolated a game like an english school yard soccer derivative was played in central NSW.

    Now the FFA and the NSW govt pushing this to promote to aboriginal kids is not surprising. North Korean kids are taught that 83% of all technolgical advancements were discovered and innovated first in their country. Paranoia and jealousy is a cocktail that has an inverse affect to a truth serum.

    The concern however is it appears that the Australian Sports Commission are now promoting the same to aborignal kids.

    http://www.ausport.gov.au/participa...s/individual_games/ball_games/woggabaliri.pdf

    Now kids (and particularly aboriginal kids) participating in physical activity is obviously a good thing so a pragmatist might feel it perfectly valid and ethical to manufacture aboriginal history to get them playing any game.

    The ASC, however, has form.

    The ASC if you are unaware, is a commonwealth tax payer funded agencythe legislated objectives are:

    > ​
    an effective national sports system that offers improved participation in quality sports
    activities by Australians

    > excellence in sports performances by Australians.

    Without excessively researching, the ASC doles out about $100 million a year to achieve these aims. You will notice if you look at their 2008/09 annual report that it has historically skews vast bulk of this to the second
    objective. Additionally it appears to interpret the second as "success in olympic sports and soccer".

    So it sees itself as basically a mechanism for satiating jingoism and cultural cringe, providing little resources to the first objective that, I would think anyway, should be their primary objective.

    http://www.ausport.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/334254/Annual_Report_08-09.pdf


    Without going at length into it (not even sure if the govt has responded yet) a recent independent inquiry found just that and recommended a rebalancing towards promoting participation and away from the Olympic gold medal standard

    you can read it here:

    http://www.sportpanel.org.au/internet/sportpanel/publishing.nsf/Content/crawford-report

    The ASC's submission to this provides interesting reading. Interstingly though it referes to soccer as "Australian football" throughout the document.

    http://www.sportpanel.org.au/intern...E/Australian Sports Commission_15-10-2008.pdf

    In its submission, the AFL noted that the ASC has provided feedback to the AFL that it views it as a "competitor" for athletic talent that should be persuing succes for straya rather than playing the national game.

    http://www.sportpanel.org.au/internet/sportpanel/publishing.nsf/Content/Australian+Football+League

    You might note that the AFL spends considerably more on grass roots development and particpation than the ASC, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of turnover.

    So now has the ASC has gone beyond its traditional role of skewing taxpayer resources away from sports people want to play towards those that boost jingoism, to fabricating aboriginal history to get kids to play soccer (Australian football)?

    Well we'll see. Perhaps there might be some linguistic validation to the admittedly hilariously named "woggabaliri", and maybe some actual evidence will emerge that such a game existed.

    Anyway, til then, watch this space.

    And note the Wiki article on "football" has already been updated to incorporate this incredible development in our understanding of our first peoples history

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football
     

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  2. BarneyBent

    BarneyBent Brownlow Medallist

    Sydney
    Joined:
    Aug 08
    Posts:
    10,564
    Location:
    Leeds/'Berra/Sydney
    So hacky-sack was invented in Australia? Awesome!
     
  3. SwampCreature

    SwampCreature Norm Smith Medallist

    Gold Coast
    Joined:
    Mar 07
    Posts:
    7,040
    Location:
    Sweep shots don't count
    Other Teams:
    probably
    So the first soccer game ever played in Australia called "wog ball"? Has to be a piss take.
     
  4. Chaz Pendlebury

    Chaz Pendlebury Club Legend

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    1,186
    Location:
    London
    Indeed, it almost certainly will turn out to be.

    I would love to wager that it will come out that some NSW bureaucrat thought it up as a means to trick NSW aboriginal kids to play soccer. TBH I would like to have a beer with the man, I'm sure he'd be a laugh.

    I'm sure whoever it was did not foresee what it has led to

    I have not located the ASC's reference to it being the "oldest known indigenous game" as wiki states but if they have said that, well that would be particularly embarassing.
     
  5. SwampCreature

    SwampCreature Norm Smith Medallist

    Gold Coast
    Joined:
    Mar 07
    Posts:
    7,040
    Location:
    Sweep shots don't count
    Other Teams:
    probably
    If rugby league starts promoting an ancient aboriginal game called "Noneckathugby" I swear i will f**King lose my shit
     
  6. Chaz Pendlebury

    Chaz Pendlebury Club Legend

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    1,186
    Location:
    London
    Ha ha, nice one....

    You might want to consider a job here...

    http://www.dsr.nsw.gov.au/aboutus/employ.asp

    Keep an eye out for job openings
     
  7. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Queenslander

    Carlton
    Joined:
    Jul 10
    Posts:
    31,281
    Location:
    Adelaide
    It does stretch the lines of coincidence just a little. At least "marngrook" is better than "aussierulesiri".
     
  8. Wallaby

    Wallaby Norm Smith Medallist

    Richmond
    Joined:
    May 07
    Posts:
    8,119
    Location:
    vic
    If you check some of the documents, most of these 'traditional' sports are just the standard games kids have been playing in the backyard or playground for years. basically no rules, just have fun throwing, catching and running. Giving it a Traditional Name doesn't infuse it with some magical traditional values that must be preserved and promoted. It's just kids having fun with whatever is to hand. They didn't have tennis balls back then so they used bark, possum skins (supposedly) and sticks - the tennis ball is such a fantastic toy, we developed games using it.

    It's rather like formally approving Chasey, 4-square (Downball in my day!) or Brandy as a sport.

    Sports as we know them are successful because they have a structure, a skills development path, formal rules for playing and scoring. They also act as a catalyst for kids to develop their own games (such as kick-to-kick from Aussie Rules, or 4-square from tennis).
     
  9. The_Wookie

    The_Wookie Queenslander

    Carlton
    Joined:
    Jul 10
    Posts:
    31,281
    Location:
    Adelaide
    you mean tagawiliri, handballiri and brandiwiliri ? :p
     
  10. Pessimistic

    Pessimistic TheBrownDog

    Hawthorn
    Joined:
    Sep 00
    Posts:
    62,564
    Location:
    Melbourne cricket ground. Australia
    Other Teams:
    Horks
    I have stunning proof that "Ballyball" was discovered by russian explorers who visited terra australis half a century before captain cook.

    They were inspired by the physical prowess and agility of the indigenous people, and in particular their feats while moving mid air.

    The russians stayed over to learn some of the skills, and took them back to the mother country. It developed a cult following there but didnt take off for several centuries.

    When it did, the ball had been myseriously dropped, and the proponents were now using the manoerves to tell old folk stories, using Tcaikovsky as accompaniement.

    Some people (and this is unsourced) think the change from sport to art form was because the tsars and then the communist dictators didnt want the spoert to take over the englis sourced "socca", which was clearly inferior, but was ddemd bu authorities to be more inline with "russian" Character

    Ironically, Modern Ballet was re-introduced in australia by russians escaping stalinist oppression in the early 1900s
     
  11. Clay Davis

    Clay Davis Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Joined:
    Sep 06
    Posts:
    19,993
    Location:
    ge
    At first I thought you were simply referencing a dodgy wiki entry, but that is amazing that it is in official government documents. There is no way this isn't a piss take.
     

    (Log in to remove this ad.)

  12. Sebastian Balboa

    Sebastian Balboa Club Legend

    Fremantle
    Joined:
    Aug 06
    Posts:
    1,986
    Location:
    Beside your Mum
    Over at The Roar, where soccer and the rugbys rule but not Rules, it's hilarious watching the soccer sheeple's unquestionable, devotional acceptance of this vague-as historical curiosity.
     
  13. Giants FC

    Giants FC Premiership Player

    GWS
    Joined:
    Aug 05
    Posts:
    3,298
    Location:
    Greater Western Sydney
    Other Teams:
    Sydney FC, Sydney Kings, NSW
    It's a hoax, and anyone that falls for it is unbelievably gullible.

    Interesting that the Wiki page Chaz links to was only created on 24th October - just three years after the game was invented and entered Aboriginal folklore.
     
  14. Clay Davis

    Clay Davis Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Joined:
    Sep 06
    Posts:
    19,993
    Location:
    ge
    It's actually even older:

    http://fulltext.ausport.gov.au/fulltext/2000/ascpub/traditional.asp
     
  15. Clay Davis

    Clay Davis Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Joined:
    Sep 06
    Posts:
    19,993
    Location:
    ge
    So, the source that the ASC links Woggabiliri to is this:

    http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/1374667

    However, searching 'Choopadoo' with 'Woggabiliri' only returns a single resource - the ASC.

    Would be very funny if some wag at the ASC invented it.
     
  16. Pie eyed

    Pie eyed Premium Platinum

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Jun 07
    Posts:
    37,554
    Other Teams:
    Magpies
    It ranks with claims that the indigenous peoples had an intimate knowledge of Astronomy based on the fact that several rock paintings feature stars and or the moon.
     
  17. Ron The Bear

    Ron The Bear Brownlow Medallist

    Richmond
    Joined:
    Jul 06
    Posts:
    27,179
    Location:
    Melbourne
  18. Chaz Pendlebury

    Chaz Pendlebury Club Legend

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    1,186
    Location:
    London
    That set of games seems to provide a convenient mix that neatly covers the sports that the ASC would prefer aboriginal kids to play at the expense of the national game and "commonwealth" games

    There may be little evidence that the Marn-grook and related games were significant in the early development of Australian football, but the historical accounts of these games demonstrate an uncanny resemblance to what a amazing cultural triumph has evolved into.

    If the ASC has deliberatley fabricated aboriginal history to trick aboriginal kids into playing sports that facilitate its perverse, cringing, jingoistic aganda than this some scandal that is brewing. And if so, heads must roll at the ASC, and things must change!
     
  19. Pie eyed

    Pie eyed Premium Platinum

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Jun 07
    Posts:
    37,554
    Other Teams:
    Magpies
    Based on the alleged games on that page, The ASC should take legal action to recover some of the profits from the Movie Dodge Ball.

    Borna Jokee

    Surely there is evidence of these claims?
     
  20. Clay Davis

    Clay Davis Brownlow Medallist

    Fremantle
    Joined:
    Sep 06
    Posts:
    19,993
    Location:
    ge
    They all seem to come from a single book by Dr Kevin Edwards at QUT.

    Might be worth writing to him if you're interested, or heading down to the NLA for some research.
     
  21. Hawkers

    Hawkers Cancelled

    Hawthorn
    Joined:
    Feb 05
    Posts:
    8,531
    Other Teams:
    Hawthorn
    Do you know the name of the book?
     
  22. Chaz Pendlebury

    Chaz Pendlebury Club Legend

    Collingwood
    Joined:
    Mar 08
    Posts:
    1,186
    Location:
    London
    Wow!!!

    Check out the photo with the caption

    "children playing a tradtional indigenous game"

    on this page

    http://www.ausport.gov.au/participating/indigenous/resources/games_and_activities/disclaimer

    unbelievable!

    You actually really have to laugh.

    The beauty of this scandal is that the perverse agenda of the ASC - that sees it spend millions of tax payer dollars subsidising expensive elitist sports like equestrian and sailing at the expense of sports like Australian football (and to a lesser extent cricket and league) that redirects tens of millions from what generates at the elite level to encourage paricipation in the community every year - will be thrust further into the spotlight
     
  23. stefoid

    stefoid Brownlow Medallist

    Western Bulldogs
    Joined:
    Mar 02
    Posts:
    15,239
    Location:
    home
    tuggawilli
     
  24. Barkly St End

    Barkly St End Brownlow Medallist

    Western Bulldogs
    Joined:
    Dec 09
    Posts:
    10,127
    Location:
    Barkly St
    Other Teams:
    Seagulls, Kookaburras
    Good that you've raised this. I too initially thought that it had to be a piss take, but with references to the ausport, etc, I accepted that it was just one of those quirky things.

    But now that you mention that the only source appears to be ausport, then this is indeed intriguing - but could anyone be so stupid as to make up a name with such an obvious inference? Somone on the government payroll?!

    Doing a quick google check, and the number of mentions are indeed quite low.

    But surely someone well versed in the aboriginal languages in the area would have been able to refute the story by now, afterall, they reckon woggabaliri means simply "to play". You'd think it would be relatively easy to check that.
     
  25. Barkly St End

    Barkly St End Brownlow Medallist

    Western Bulldogs
    Joined:
    Dec 09
    Posts:
    10,127
    Location:
    Barkly St
    Other Teams:
    Seagulls, Kookaburras
    I forgot to mention, someone earlier referred to The Roar, who have a definite anti aussie rules agenda, and regularly run opinion pieces where anti-AFL enthusiasts attempt to water down the history of Australian football, to make it appear less of a quintessential Australian product.

    These same people are lapping up this woggabaliri story with great relish, always searching for new ways to try an diminish the very long history that Australian Football has in this country (and I'm referring to 1858 onwards).

    This follows on from a Craig Foster piece recently where he tried to exaggerate the history of soccer in this country, even to the extent of making a big deal about matches attracting 4,000 in 1905 (wow).
     
Back To Top

Share This Page