Society/Culture Woke. Can you tell real from parody?

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Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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Real I think. As long as the pilot is capable I have no issue with an affirmative action type policy like this.
Suppose the pass mark is set at 80. Wouldn't you want the 95 to 100% candidates to be flying the plane that takes you and your family safely to your destination - rather than the 80 to 85% candidates who are given preferential treatment because of their genitals or the colour of their skin? The same could apply for applicants to be surgeons, fire brigade or special forces.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
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Suppose the pass mark is set at 80. Wouldn't you want the 95 to 100% candidates to be flying the plane that takes you and your family safely to your destination - rather than the 80 to 85% candidates who are given preferential treatment because of their genitals or the colour of their skin? The same could apply for applicants to be surgeons, fire brigade or special forces.
Provide evidence that they are seeking candidates who would not otherwise meet the task condition and standard.
I work medical and we seek diversity as they often have language and cultural skills to assist
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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Provide evidence that they are seeking candidates who would not otherwise meet the task condition and standard.
Task condition and standard is relative. If people meet the subjective minimum don't you still want to select the best? Like if you set a standard to qualify for AFL draft camp you would select the best players based on demonstrated ability - not selective diversity criteria that 'reflects those who attend AFL games'.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
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Task condition and standard is relative. If people meet the subjective minimum don't you still want to select the best? Like if you set a standard to qualify for AFL draft camp you would select the best players based on demonstrated ability - not selective diversity criteria that 'reflects those who attend AFL games'.
Task condition and standard are absolutes. It is the standard you need to achieve to be able to do the job. If you cant achieve the standard you do not keep the job/ do not get hired. The truly outstanding will still get selected (diversity quotas not withstanding)
 

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Norm Smith Medallist
Aug 21, 2016
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Task condition and standard are absolutes. It is the standard you need to achieve to be able to do the job. If you cant achieve the standard you do not keep the job/ do not get hired. The truly outstanding will still get selected (diversity quotas not withstanding)
You still haven't answered why flight deck personnel should reflect the make up of their passengers. Should they be taking on more over 55s? Or more Asian Americans? If cabin crews were more representative of the passengers it would be discriminatory against gay men.

How do you qualify as a person of color? Do you tick a box and they take your word for it? Do you undergo a swarthiness test?

But as usual with corporate wokeness it's more about virtue signalling than genuine helping the disadvantaged. It costs an applicant $71,250 to train through the United Aviate Academy, plus 10 months accomodation costs in Phoenix. Under their diversity initiative United is providing $1.2 million in sponsorship. That's enough for only 16 people out of the 5000 pilots they intend to train by 2030. Less than 2 people per year. To put that into perspective the CEO who has pushed this plan pays himself $16.7 million per annum.

 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
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You still haven't answered why flight deck personnel should reflect the make up of their passengers. Should they be taking on more over 55s? Or more Asian Americans? If cabin crews were more representative of the passengers it would be discriminatory against gay men.

How do you qualify as a person of color? Do you tick a box and they take your word for it? Do you undergo a swarthiness test?

But as usual with corporate wokeness it's more about virtue signalling than genuine helping the disadvantaged. It costs an applicant $71,250 to train through the United Aviate Academy, plus 10 months accomodation costs in Phoenix. Under their diversity initiative United is providing $1.2 million in sponsorship. That's enough for only 16 people out of the 5000 pilots they intend to train by 2030. Less than 2 people per year. To put that into perspective the CEO who has pushed this plan pays himself $16.7 million per annum.

I don’t know, but are you seriously trying to say it’s ok to not try and have persons of colour and female fly the planes?
 

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FireKrakouer

Brb, smoking parmesan.
Jul 5, 2011
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I don’t know, but are you seriously trying to say it’s ok to not try and have persons of colour and female fly the planes?
For something so bloody important (a job where you may have 800+ lives depending on you) it absolutely must be a meritocracy. We need the best of the best as commercial pilots, regardless of identity.
 

FireKrakouer

Brb, smoking parmesan.
Jul 5, 2011
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There no evidence that they are planning to hire unqualified pilots
Dude, leave the quotas to BS jobs that don't have hundreds of lives on the line. Think about if it was you or your family on an A380 flown by a pilot who was less competent than their peers? Seriously, of all the jobs in the world this is one of the last ones that should have recruitment based on skin colour rather than merit.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
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Dude, leave the quotas to BS jobs that don't have hundreds of lives on the line. Think about if it was you or your family on an A380 flown by a pilot who was less competent than their peers? Seriously, of all the jobs in the world this is one of the last ones that should have recruitment based on skin colour rather than merit.
Again I need you to prove that these hires are not as competent before we engage further in debate.
You do realise that “merit” is not objectively measured and as such leads to unconscious bias to hire pretty (attractive) white people?
 

FireKrakouer

Brb, smoking parmesan.
Jul 5, 2011
12,077
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Collingwood
Again I need you to prove that these hires are not as competent before we engage further in debate.
You do realise that “merit” is not objectively measured and as such leads to unconscious bias to hire pretty (attractive) white people?
We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. Woolies, Coles and whatnot can implement any quotas they want. But airliners have tragic crashes even when when they are hiring the most competent, can you imagine if they lower the bar? It's just the most absurd career to implement quotas in.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
17,015
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Melbourne
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Hawthorn
We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue. Woolies, Coles and whatnot can implement any quotas they want. But airliners have tragic crashes even when when they are hiring the most competent, can you imagine if they lower the bar? It's just the most absurd career to implement quotas in.
Again you are assuming the bar is actually being lowered. I need proof of that assertion first.
 

FireKrakouer

Brb, smoking parmesan.
Jul 5, 2011
12,077
18,281
AFL Club
Collingwood
Again you are assuming the bar is actually being lowered. I need proof of that assertion first.
There should be no discrimination in the hiring process other than on competency. We don't want a situation like at VicPol, where you're waved straight in if you're a woman with a headscarf on but you're rejected if you're a fit young male veteran with relevant skills.
 

Crankyhawk

Brownlow Medallist
Sep 21, 2007
17,015
11,798
Melbourne
AFL Club
Hawthorn
There should be no discrimination in the hiring process other than on competency. We don't want a situation like at VicPol, where you're waved straight in if you're a woman with a headscarf on but you're rejected if you're a fit young male veteran with relevant skills.
Again, if you are a woman with a headscarf with relevant skills there’s no reason to not be chosen over the male with relevant skills. It’s the skill that matters.
What has been shown is that diverse people with skills are disproportionately overlooked.
 

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