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Wood... never again
- Thread starter Dxmxgxd
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LeighBrownlow
Debutant
Heard on Triple m last night that Jolly hurt his adductor, so for all you idiots bagging Jolly, who was also played injured in last year's grand final and played a major part in winning the 2010 premiership, shut up!!
Quicky
Brownlow Medallist
- May 27, 2008
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It would explain why he couldn't jump. It was also the injury he suffered from last year which isn't a good sign. People seem to forget that Jolly is prone to terrible games from time to time. He did that at Sydney when he was at his best. I know because I used to watch him closely because he was in my supercoach team.
Wow people are quick to jump ship so early in the season.
Seriously i could not give a stuff how we play now as long as we slowly build up for September. Example from last year. Looked fantastic at the start of the year, played one quarter of football each game for the middle and then we managed to stumble into the GF and we were not prepared. So i would much rather us prepare and get ready for September because it is a long season.
But at the moment it looks like there isnt a game plan. In the bits we were good against Richmond it didnt really have a game plan feel about it, we were just winning the ball, thats it, nothing special. Looks like the players have lost the discipline and competitive spirit for the moment.
Seriously i could not give a stuff how we play now as long as we slowly build up for September. Example from last year. Looked fantastic at the start of the year, played one quarter of football each game for the middle and then we managed to stumble into the GF and we were not prepared. So i would much rather us prepare and get ready for September because it is a long season.
But at the moment it looks like there isnt a game plan. In the bits we were good against Richmond it didnt really have a game plan feel about it, we were just winning the ball, thats it, nothing special. Looks like the players have lost the discipline and competitive spirit for the moment.
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- Feb 11, 2011
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Wood was not that bad last night. He was far from good, but there were plenty worse.
I would like to see Wood as number 1 ruck for the next 5 weeks. Give the guy some certainty in his position and then assess after that 5 week period. If he fails, then we need to bring in Ceglar before his time and begin his transition period.
As for Jolly, this is surely his last year. I think he still has a role to play this year, but i really hope its as a big bodied back up to Wood with Wood then progressing as our main man for the next 4-5 years.
I would like to see Wood as number 1 ruck for the next 5 weeks. Give the guy some certainty in his position and then assess after that 5 week period. If he fails, then we need to bring in Ceglar before his time and begin his transition period.
As for Jolly, this is surely his last year. I think he still has a role to play this year, but i really hope its as a big bodied back up to Wood with Wood then progressing as our main man for the next 4-5 years.
LeighBrownlow
Debutant
Exactly. Just really annoyed to see people turn on a bloke who has done so much for the club after one poor game.
- Jul 21, 2008
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If Jolly hurt his abductor what is the point of playing him injured? Rest him and let Wood take first ruck although this again leaves us with the problem of relief ruck with Dawes as the only candidate.
LeighBrownlow
Debutant
We would have only had 1 player rotating on the bench if we rested him
No pre-season, 2 games in the VFL and he doesn't blitz it in his 1st week in the AFL against a team with everything to play for.
Who'd have thunk it.
Who'd have thunk it.
- Jul 21, 2008
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No, I meant don't play him next week and beyond if he is injured.
No pre-season, 2 games in the VFL and he doesn't blitz it in his 1st week in the AFL against a team with everything to play for.
Who'd have thunk it.
Haha! Exactly! I'm not sure what people were expecting.
First game.
Pera
⚪️⚫️⚪️⚫️⚪️⚫️
He looks a better option than Jolly at the moment.
Optimax
Brownlow Medallist
Sadly he doesn't look better then jolly, who at least physically competed.
Wood was just there
Wood was just there
Not sure about that.
Would like to see Jolly "rested" at some stage. if two rucks dont work and we have to go back to one, we cant assume that Jolly IS the one.
Personally I'd persevere with two rucks.
76woodenspooners
Brownlow Medallist
I agree with the "give him 5-6 week" sentiments ...
But if he doesn't cement the primary ruck position this season then he should go.
You can't keep a KP / ruck player who has failed to cement their spot after 8 seasons. 8 Seasons!
Not even as depth or backup.
It becomes a crutch the selection committee relies on.
And it's a bad dynamic for the kids in the team - you can't rely on all kids to have Fasolo's pluck.
But if he doesn't cement the primary ruck position this season then he should go.
You can't keep a KP / ruck player who has failed to cement their spot after 8 seasons. 8 Seasons!
Not even as depth or backup.
It becomes a crutch the selection committee relies on.
And it's a bad dynamic for the kids in the team - you can't rely on all kids to have Fasolo's pluck.
Completely agree with point 1 .. and point 2. Let's see once and for all what Wood can deliver. If he does ... sweet. If not ... he's gone.
Question for Bucks?
When was the previous time that both Jolly and Wood played together?
Rd.24 2011...ring a bell...?
Todays game has no room for 2 lumbering ruckmen..
Better a Big Ruckman/resting Forward and an athletic Ruckman/Midfielder.
West Coast, Essendon and Carlton have worked this one out.
When was the previous time that both Jolly and Wood played together?
Rd.24 2011...ring a bell...?
Todays game has no room for 2 lumbering ruckmen..
Better a Big Ruckman/resting Forward and an athletic Ruckman/Midfielder.
West Coast, Essendon and Carlton have worked this one out.
But the ruckman/midfielder isn't practical. We don't have anyone on our list that can really do that.
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Dont get me started on Wood.
No matter how many times he gets a crack, he just never seems to deliver.
Hes been on our list since 2008, yet doesnt seem to have put on an ounce of muscle. Yet, even with light frame, he cant leap over any ruckman. Then he gets beaten in marking contests by the likes of Gibbs, couldnt imagine Kreuzer losing a marking contest like that.
Its time we cut him loose at years end, been a poor investment, cant win em all i guess.
As for Jolly, well hes getting towards the end.
I dont think he was the same for us as he was for the Swans. Doesnt seem to have those big hitout nights like he did when with the swans. Cant jump, cant mark, and cant not give away free kicks.
The main thing i cant understand, is why cant we develop ruckman? Yes its a bit early to tell about Ceglar or Witts. But why is it, that some clubs develop ruckman at will.
Carlton is a prime example. Currently have 3 very capable ruckman on their list (kreuzer, hampson, warnock), plus only 2 years ago they offloaded Sam Jacobs, who is also very capable.
Brisbane, seems to find capable ruckman, offloaded Broc McCauley, who although injured atm, showed up Darren Jolly in rd 1.
We havent had a decent ruckman, that was developed in house, since big monkey.
Id like to see us go after a ruckman over the pre-season. Someone who is possibly on the fringe of another team, starved of opportunities.
Maybe someone such as Jonathon Griffin from Freo, Robbie Warnock at Carlton. Any other suggestions?
Hows Witts looked in the VFL, how far away does everyone think he is from AFL?
No matter how many times he gets a crack, he just never seems to deliver.
Hes been on our list since 2008, yet doesnt seem to have put on an ounce of muscle. Yet, even with light frame, he cant leap over any ruckman. Then he gets beaten in marking contests by the likes of Gibbs, couldnt imagine Kreuzer losing a marking contest like that.
Its time we cut him loose at years end, been a poor investment, cant win em all i guess.
As for Jolly, well hes getting towards the end.
I dont think he was the same for us as he was for the Swans. Doesnt seem to have those big hitout nights like he did when with the swans. Cant jump, cant mark, and cant not give away free kicks.
The main thing i cant understand, is why cant we develop ruckman? Yes its a bit early to tell about Ceglar or Witts. But why is it, that some clubs develop ruckman at will.
Carlton is a prime example. Currently have 3 very capable ruckman on their list (kreuzer, hampson, warnock), plus only 2 years ago they offloaded Sam Jacobs, who is also very capable.
Brisbane, seems to find capable ruckman, offloaded Broc McCauley, who although injured atm, showed up Darren Jolly in rd 1.
We havent had a decent ruckman, that was developed in house, since big monkey.
Id like to see us go after a ruckman over the pre-season. Someone who is possibly on the fringe of another team, starved of opportunities.
Maybe someone such as Jonathon Griffin from Freo, Robbie Warnock at Carlton. Any other suggestions?
Hows Witts looked in the VFL, how far away does everyone think he is from AFL?
- Banned
- #71
They're Athletic ruckman are still a ruckmans height not a 194cm kpp trying to stop gap.
Naitanui, Ryder and Hampson all have big leaps, pace are reasonably agile for talls and all are above 197cm. They all have played ruck role during their junior years at 1 time or another too so aren't totally green to it.
Who do we have on the list who fit this description?
hampson was a soccer player
Wood was bad, very bad, on Friday night…but Jolly was worse which is a fair indictment on our rucks. I thought that this was clearly were the rot started and what frustrated me most about this was that our midfield did not restructure or reorganise themselves to rove to Carlton’s rucks. We did this all season in 2008 and came within a kick of making the Grand Final. This was a failure on Robert Harvey, midfield coach, and Nathan Buckley.
Anyway, I digress – for one of the tallest lists in the AFL with Jolly, Wood, Keefe, Ceglar, McNamara, Witts all initially drafted with ruck in mind, only Witts seems to have the POTENTIAL to be able to compete both in the ruck and around the grounds. I’m not saying he will ever fulfil this potential this is purely analytical. Let’s take a look at their attributes and for the purposes of my ratings - (L) represents ruck leap, (S) represents strength and the ability to hold position in the ruck, and (A) represents athleticism and the ability to cover the ground in general play and (E) is for effort and desire:
· Jolly – Caught a bit of the 2006 GF on Fox the other day and one of the things that stood out the most was the shape of Darren Jolly. His body type was lean, athletic but still powerful. Jolly’s body is no longer at a stage where, despite reportedly losing 3-4kgs in the preseason, he can jump and compete aerially in ruck contests. Ruckman have 2-3 steps to launch. Jolly does not have this explosive power in his legs any longer. He can still wrestle with the bigs but can’t cover the ground. (A – 3, S – 8, L – 3, E – 9)
· Wood – Since around 2009 has not really added any noticeable strength (and core strength). He has shown glimpses of talent but only when left as the no.1 and sole ruckman. He gets bullied by all opposition ruckman and his lack of big leap means he rarely wins the hit-out count. A lot of questions around his desire and effort. (A – 4, S – 3, L – 4, E – 4)
· Ceglar – While still early days for Ceglar, he appears to be the type of ruckman that will rely upon his leap and athleticism rather than size and strength. That said, his leap is not and never will be in the same as the Hampson’s, Ryder’s or Nic Nat’s. What this means is that if he does not continue to put on more size to engage them on his strength he will always be dominated by these types of players. Conversely, his body shape suggests that he will never be a brute so where this leaves him as a ruck is questionable. Again, its early but I’m not sure whether he will be anything other than a slightly better version of Wood in the physical attributes comparison. (A – 6, S – 3, L – 5, E -7) projected (A -7, S – 4, L – 5, E – 8)
· Witts – The rawest and most underdeveloped of our ruck stocks also has the most potential when assessing physical attributes only. We know his height, we hear and some have witnessed his freak athleticism for a man his size and he appears to have a body type that will see him fill out to become one of the biggest ruckman in the competition. It’s too early to say much about Witts as he still needs to learn the game and his body mature however for the purposes of this analysis there is no doubt he possesses everything the modern ruckman requires. He will never have a big leap but neither does Sandilands and this is not where his strength lies. He has also demonstrated that mongrel and aggression that most good ruckman have but in reality he is probably minimum 2 years away from being a league ruckman. (A – 7, S – 3, L – 3, E – 7) projected (A -7, S – 8, L – 3, E – 8)
The remaining two “ruckmen” in Keefe and McNamara are not and never will be just that. My assessment is that we have always drafted undersized ruckman that have no defining attribute. Richards, Fraser, Bryan, Fanning, Wood and now Ceglar. The only success we have had in the ruck has come through “buying” a ruck in Darren Jolly from another club.
My belief is that we dump Wood at season’s end, along with a handful of other young players head lined by Sinclair. We then go out and seek a Jonathan Griffin, Robbie Warnock or Tom Bellchambers and see if we can attract them with the promise of best chance of securing a no.1 ruck spot for which they will never have at their current club. If that fails, I would look to the State leagues and try to find the next Jonathan Giles or Orren Stephenson (Giles looks sensational) to hopefully fill the gap until Witts is ready.
Anyway, I digress – for one of the tallest lists in the AFL with Jolly, Wood, Keefe, Ceglar, McNamara, Witts all initially drafted with ruck in mind, only Witts seems to have the POTENTIAL to be able to compete both in the ruck and around the grounds. I’m not saying he will ever fulfil this potential this is purely analytical. Let’s take a look at their attributes and for the purposes of my ratings - (L) represents ruck leap, (S) represents strength and the ability to hold position in the ruck, and (A) represents athleticism and the ability to cover the ground in general play and (E) is for effort and desire:
· Jolly – Caught a bit of the 2006 GF on Fox the other day and one of the things that stood out the most was the shape of Darren Jolly. His body type was lean, athletic but still powerful. Jolly’s body is no longer at a stage where, despite reportedly losing 3-4kgs in the preseason, he can jump and compete aerially in ruck contests. Ruckman have 2-3 steps to launch. Jolly does not have this explosive power in his legs any longer. He can still wrestle with the bigs but can’t cover the ground. (A – 3, S – 8, L – 3, E – 9)
· Wood – Since around 2009 has not really added any noticeable strength (and core strength). He has shown glimpses of talent but only when left as the no.1 and sole ruckman. He gets bullied by all opposition ruckman and his lack of big leap means he rarely wins the hit-out count. A lot of questions around his desire and effort. (A – 4, S – 3, L – 4, E – 4)
· Ceglar – While still early days for Ceglar, he appears to be the type of ruckman that will rely upon his leap and athleticism rather than size and strength. That said, his leap is not and never will be in the same as the Hampson’s, Ryder’s or Nic Nat’s. What this means is that if he does not continue to put on more size to engage them on his strength he will always be dominated by these types of players. Conversely, his body shape suggests that he will never be a brute so where this leaves him as a ruck is questionable. Again, its early but I’m not sure whether he will be anything other than a slightly better version of Wood in the physical attributes comparison. (A – 6, S – 3, L – 5, E -7) projected (A -7, S – 4, L – 5, E – 8)
· Witts – The rawest and most underdeveloped of our ruck stocks also has the most potential when assessing physical attributes only. We know his height, we hear and some have witnessed his freak athleticism for a man his size and he appears to have a body type that will see him fill out to become one of the biggest ruckman in the competition. It’s too early to say much about Witts as he still needs to learn the game and his body mature however for the purposes of this analysis there is no doubt he possesses everything the modern ruckman requires. He will never have a big leap but neither does Sandilands and this is not where his strength lies. He has also demonstrated that mongrel and aggression that most good ruckman have but in reality he is probably minimum 2 years away from being a league ruckman. (A – 7, S – 3, L – 3, E – 7) projected (A -7, S – 8, L – 3, E – 8)
The remaining two “ruckmen” in Keefe and McNamara are not and never will be just that. My assessment is that we have always drafted undersized ruckman that have no defining attribute. Richards, Fraser, Bryan, Fanning, Wood and now Ceglar. The only success we have had in the ruck has come through “buying” a ruck in Darren Jolly from another club.
My belief is that we dump Wood at season’s end, along with a handful of other young players head lined by Sinclair. We then go out and seek a Jonathan Griffin, Robbie Warnock or Tom Bellchambers and see if we can attract them with the promise of best chance of securing a no.1 ruck spot for which they will never have at their current club. If that fails, I would look to the State leagues and try to find the next Jonathan Giles or Orren Stephenson (Giles looks sensational) to hopefully fill the gap until Witts is ready.
- Jul 14, 2011
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No! we cant keep trading our first round pick we have done it far to long. Just throw Celgar in the deep end next year and hope for the best also agree that Wood should be delisted at years end
- Nov 5, 2010
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Wood's always played better when he's the no1 ruckman, IMO if Jolly has another stinker next week i'd drop him and give wood a chance, can't do any worse than what jolly's been putting up IMO.