List Mgmt. Woodcock, Lienert and Burgoyne delisted (Mayes to be rookied)

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strath39

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A huge amount of revisionist history here regarding Lienert.

If he never played a bad game then he wouldn't have been dropped and would have been a mainstay in the side ahead of guys like McKenzie and Bonner.

Truth is each of his seasons games followed a similar path. Great first game then progressively got worse until he was dropped. He's a 195cm tall who can't play as a KPD, isn't strong defensively and has one asset which is a booming, yet not often accurate kick.
he plays a lot of 5-6 out of 10 games. Not bad but does nothing exceptional.
 

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Janus

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We went into this season with 38 senior listed players. The league minimum is 36.

We signed Pasini to 2022 at the end of 2020, so he’s getting upgraded to the senior list. With Hartlett, Ladhams, Rockliff, Garner, Goldsack, Mayes and Lienert coming off it (Woodcock was a rookie), that means we’ve got 4 senior list spots if we go the minimum (which we should).

Pick 12 and Burgoyne will fill two spots. Finlayson takes another. That means we are going to either sign a DFA or take another pick in the draft...signing a DFA for one year makes more sense because it gives us flexibility for next year's draft (keeping in mind draft picks taken in the regular draft have to stay on the senior list for two years).

Always list the minimum amount of players - depth is players 23-30 on your list. Remember that the following players weren’t part of the 23 that played in the prelim final but played during the year: Georgiades, Jones, Clurey, Farrell, Frederick, Williams. Add guys like Finlayson, Hayes, Mead and the delisted FA and that takes you to 32 players (after trading Ladhams).

The other 4 players should be development - our future pick 12, Lord, Pasini and Jace Burgoyne. This is why I'm in on Mac Andrew - we've already got good players that weren't getting games who can slot into periphery spots on flanks etc while our elite players like Butters, Rozee, Bergman and Duursma get more midfield time...and they are far more promising as the explosive mid player we lack than any of the draftees I've seen with the exception of Horne-Francis. We can afford to develop an elite forward/ruck in Andrew that can combine well with Hayes when he takes over from Lycett full time.

What's better - Bergman with three AFL preseasons under his belt going into the midfield, with Jones filling his spot in defence (or vice versa)? Or some rookie kid that isn't as good as either Bergman or Jones (due to not having time in the system and having their development stunted by COVID), coming into the best 23 and trying to give us the spark we need?

I know the collective consensus of this board is that we're a mile off of winning a flag. I think we just need our 2018/19 draft picks to kick up a gear. Bergman, Butters, Duursma and Rozee have higher levels to go to.
 

gbear

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Yes, we will be playing with a shortened list if do not pickup a couple of DFAs. We have fu** all tradable picks in this Draft and I see no sense in trading future picks to get into a what is supposed to be a shallow Draft.

As I see it we have 5 slots on our senior list and our first round pick and probably Jase Burgoyne will fill 2 of those which would leave 3 to fill. Maybe a couple of DFAs and we possibly elevate someone from the Rookie List? Is Taj Scofield a chance to be elevated?

I hope we have a cunning plan.
Mid season draft might be a necessity at this rate!
 

Traveling_Power

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Don't forget that pick 73 will probably come into about pick 50 after NGA picks and clubs passing.
For Information
(Darcy & Daicos will eat up all of the Bulldogs & Collingwood's picks)

so our pick 12 will be pick 14
so our pick 63 will be around pick 54
so our pick 73 will be around pick 64
so our pick 74 will be around pick 65
so our pick 92 will be around pick 83

some of these picks (54 & 64) will then be used on Jace Burgoyne.

pick 65 & 83 will probably be used next year in the pre- season or mid season draft

So we will probably look at taking 1
 

RussellEbertHandball

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When Frederick signed a contract a few weeks back did he get elevated to the senior list, or is he still classified as a rookie?
The article I saw said he stayed as a rookie B as they are allowed a 4th year without having to be rerookied which means our list can stay at 43. Just posted something about it in 2022 List management thread.
 

JakeNeadeFan

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The DFA might be younger, or better, or play a position that's a greater need for us. Or, in the case of someone like Constable or Dumont, all of the above.
While that may be true they are more than likely still going to be a "list clogger" in that they clearly won't be good enough to be best 22 and won't be young enough to suggest they have improvement ahead of them.

Constable is a boundary case in that he is quite young and was starved of experience as he was playing at Geelong. I guess you could make the same argument for Brander. Although in both cases their AFL form has been meh.

Dumont on the other hand is less than a year younger than Lienert and I don't think his recent form has been much better than Jarrod's. At the end of the day it looks like he will be delisted from the worst team in the competition. He is the definition of a list clogger/sanfl player. Most other DFAs fit into that category.

I agree that there is a need to shift out some of our defenders and bring in some more midfielders and forwards though. Although with Garner, Hartlett and Goldsack already going out you could argue that has already been attended to.

Every club could say this about every depth player they have every year.

In the end you are either a first 22 player or very close to it, or with the rest of your squad you want them developing to become capable of being a first 22 player. In Lienerts case if you are 27yo and have reached your ceiling which is 26-29th best player on the list, then whats the point of keeping him? If you are keeping all these valid depth players because they provide good depth, then where do you get your list churn from? At what point do you pull the pin on Lienert? We know he'll probably play at a similar level for the next 2-3 years, so do you keep him a then 29-30yo depth player who isn't part of the first 22?

Kane Mitchell, Jimmy Toumpas, Jesse Palmer. All these guys were 'good depth' and could have stayed longer than they did. In the end you want players who could be better, not keep players who won't ever be first 22.
I agree you need to churn the list, but we already had 6 players coming off. As I said, if you consider Lienert to be the last one off the list, then in all likelihood he is being replaced by pick 100 or being replaced by a DFA. What is the probability that those types turn into reasonable AFL players? Anecdotally I would say most players taken at super late picks or as DFAs are failures.

What you get with Lienert, and what distinguishes him from Palmer, Toumpas et. al., is that he is a solid reliable player. When he gets called up to play AFL he usually puts in a respectable performance. Having some amount of players in the list who do that is not necessarily a bad thing.

At the end of the day its a minor list decision in the scheme of a football club but I think it is unfortunate for Jarrod who seemed to be a a good clubman and a reliable, selfless player.
 
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raptalia

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While that may be true they are more than likely still going to be a "list clogger" in that they clearly won't be good enough to be best 22 and won't be young enough to suggest they have improvement ahead of them.

Constable is a boundary case in that he is quite young and was starved of experience as he was playing at Geelong. I guess you could make the same argument for Brander. Although in both cases their AFL form has been meh.

Dumont on the other hand is less than a year younger than Lienert and I don't think his recent form has been much better than Jarrod's. At the end of the day it looks like he will be delisted from the worst team in the competition. He is the definition of a list clogger/sanfl player. Most other DFAs fit into that category.

I agree that there is a need to shift out some of our defenders and bring in some more midfielders and forwards though. Although with Garner, Hartlett and Goldsack already going out you could argue that has already been attended to.



I agree you need to churn the list, but we already had 6 players coming off. As I said, if you consider Lienert to be the last one off the list, then in all likelihood he is being replaced by pick 100 or being replaced by a DFA. What is the probability that those types turn into reasonable AFL players? Anecdotally I would say most players taken at super late picks or as DFAs are failures.

What you get with Lienert, and what distinguishes him from Palmer, Toumpas et. al., is that he is a solid reliable player. When he gets called up to play AFL he usually puts in a respectable performance. Having some amount of players in the list who do that is not necessarily a bad thing.

At the end of the day its a minor list decision in the scheme of a football club but I think it is unfortunate for Jarrod who seemed to be a a good clubman and a reliable, selfless player.
Yes, you make a good point. If the choice is between Leinert and the #100 Draft pick Lienert will probably finish in front. As far as ability goes most of the DFA's being bandied about are probably no better credentialed than Jarrod Lienert. The only thing I can think of is we are specifically targeting the midfield and want to bolster our depth with a couple of DFAs.

Tbh I am not sure where we are headed here.
 

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JakeNeadeFan

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Sad his body didn't allow him to show his best but you just can't carry a guy who is injured 90% of the time. Good decision.

Hopefully he gets his body sorted and can fight his way back in
 

Troopsy

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Well...yes. He's played about 7 games of football in 3 years. Too injury prone to make it sadly. The raw talent is there, its just been unable to be developed.
Well yeah, but with Covid and injury I thought they might’ve given him 1 more year tbh. But fair enough.
 

JimmyBC

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Trent's young if he wants it badly enough he can develop at SANFL level & maybe get another crack somewhere down the track.
 

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