Woosha

[Spoon_Man]

Chris Robinson ‏@CJKRobinson

35m​

John Worsfold to stay on as West Coast coach next season, reports Kim Hagdorn: http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/afl/west-coast-coach-john-worsfold-is-expected-to-re-sign-with-the-club/story-fniv6fhh-1226683958367… #afl #perth

Just saw this on twitter.

Hagdorn though...

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Just saw this on twitter.

Hagdorn though...

Yeah it means nothing exactly.

 

[Eagle87]

The Hagdorn report re Woosh is depressing.

Coupled with the article about Brown being offered 3 years it's adding up to an uber depressing week.

Woosh has not been a great coach. He's been decent. He did what he should have with one of the finest starting midfields (ruck included) ever seen. Other than that we've been just ok and at times very poor.

He is clearly not good game day & tactically. He has not shown himself to be a great player development guy and he has often stubbornly backed his own view and been found wrong.

2 or 3 more years of same same with some tweaks here and there will have us 5th to 10th depending on injuries/draw etc ....

He has done 12 years. Only the GREAT coaches get tenures like that anywhere...

He just isn't. And leadership with bollocks would know that and act accordingly.

 

[TOA.]

Looks like Roos turned us down.

If that is the case, Woosha is the best out there.

Who on earth would we get to replace him? Dont need an untried coach learning when we are half good. Better off Woosha giving it another crack and if he fails then new coach can re-start when Cox, Glass, Kerr, Embley etc have all long gone.

 

[jaxxon]

If he does stay, I hope there is a shake up of the football department as a minimum. Somethings not right here, we have been left behind in regards to tactics this year.

 

[Eagle87]

Looks like Roos turned us down.

If that is the case, Woosha is the best out there.

Who on earth would we get to replace him? Dont need an untried coach learning when we are half good. Better off Woosha giving it another crack and if he fails then new coach can re-start when Cox, Glass, Kerr, Embley etc have all long gone.

You serious?

He's "best out there" based on what?

He extended last time backing this group to be contended for a premiership now. He was wrong. This group has holes with more coming, not least from that list you mentioned...

I mean seriously, why is he "best out there"?

Because you know his name and you don't know anyone else except Roos?

We'd be better off with probably half the current coaches going around. We'd arguably be better off with someone tactically innovative like Williams.

Sticking with an under performer who has had 12 years cos we are scared of what to replace him with is an awful decision making process.

You'll likely be one of those who stays in an unhappy marriage for 30 years - same logic.

EDIT: I missed your "half good" comment. This group ain't winning a flag. It needs major renovation to get us close. We should keep Woosh around to ensure we remain half good? Really?

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Ugh, I'll be so disappointed if he's re-signed, the list is going no where and will only get worse over the next few years when guys like Cox, Kerr and Glass retire, from next year on is the perfect time to start rebuilding with someone new who will cut the dead wood, not waste the next 2 to 3 years with the same dud players, this is going to suck.

Next I'll be told Beau Waters, a guy who can barely get through 6 games a season will be captain.

 

[TOA.]

You serious?

He's "best out there" based on what?

He extended last time backing this group to be contended for a premiership now. He was wrong. This group has holes with more coming, not least from that list you mentioned...

I mean seriously, why is he "best out there"?

Because you know his name and you don't know anyone else except Roos?

We'd be better off with probably half the current coaches going around. We'd arguably be better off with someone tactically innovative like Williams.

Sticking with an under performer who has had 12 years cos we are scared of what to replace him with is an awful decision making process.

You'll likely be one of those who stays in an unhappy marriage for 30 years - same logic.

I cant be bothered replying directing to your post because you clearly have an agenda and I clearly cannot prove he is better than everybody else out there. However I refer you the following facts:
1. He is a premiership coach;
2. We have played in finals 9 out of his past 12 seasons;
3. When you hear him talk to the media, you can tell he is more switched on than most coaches you hear (I'd say in top 3-4);
4. He is highly respected throughout the AFL;
5. He knows the players inside and out; and
6. If he has given much though and still decided to coach on then he wants to do it. He does not seem tobe the kind of person to do it for the sake of it.

So yeh, they are my reasons. What are you reasons why somebody else is better?

If you are considering mentioning Mark Williams then save me some time and check out the multitude of threads about how he completely lost the plot at Port and was acting more like he should be in a mental home than be a senior coach.

I would be interested in who else you would recommend. I admit Woosh isnt perfect, he has been stubborn playing guys like Selwood and he can be slow to move in the coaches box but at least we know he can coach. If we get an untried coach we could get a Damian Drum, Mark Neeld, Peter Rohde etc and was 2yrs.

FWIW, I do concede that Roos is a better option than Woosha.

 

[Eagle87]

I cant be bothered replying directing to your post because you clearly have an agenda and I clearly cannot prove he is better than everybody else out there. However I refer you the following facts:
1. He is a premiership coach;
2. We have played in finals 9 out of his past 12 seasons;
3. When you hear him talk to the media, you can tell he is more switched on than most coaches you hear (I'd say in top 3-4);
4. He is highly respected throughout the AFL;
5. He knows the players inside and out; and
6. If he has given much though and still decided to coach on then he wants to do it. He does not seem tobe the kind of person to do it for the sake of it.

So yeh, they are my reasons. What are you reasons why somebody else is better?

If you are considering mentioning Mark Williams then save me some time and check out the multitude of threads about how he completely lost the plot at Port and was acting more like he should be in a mental home than be a senior coach.

I would be interested in who else you would recommend. I admit Woosh isnt perfect, he has been stubborn playing guys like Selwood and he can be slow to move in the coaches box but at least we know he can coach. If we get an untried coach we could get a Damian Drum, Mark Neeld, Peter Rohde etc and was 2yrs.

FWIW, I do concede that Roos is a better option than Woosha.

So really, he won a flag, finished 8th a lot and he knows our players... awesome.

In all organisation a fresh set of eyes can be of benefit. Witness Chris Scott at Geelong.

Of course with Scott, Lyon, numerous others including Roos & Woosh, they weren't necessarily first option and they were unknown quantities. Woosh is the 4th best coach of those 4 if we are looking at who would you rather have leading us into Round 1 next year.

And again the key issue is THIS GROUP WON'T WIN US A FLAG AND NEEDS MAJOR SURGERY. That better done by a bloke who backed all these guys in; has clear biases and has no objectivity in his assessments or by a fresh set of eyes...

Williams wore out his welcome at Port and he's a different personality. Ultimately he was there too long and lost his way with that list ...

Lets hope Woosh ain't doing exactly the same thing but better disguised cos he's not "mental"...

I think it's a very similar situation that we are heading into

EDIT: I have an agenda? What nonsensical bollocks. I want us to contend fir flags and can't see any way that happens more quickly extending Woosh because he has too much invested in this group to make the tough calls.

What's your agenda? Lazy mediocrity?

 

[Carbine Chaos]

1. He is a premiership coach

I love Woosha and all he's done for this club, but 1 premiership with that midfield was probably below what we should have achieved.

 

[royalsfan]

For once I hope Hagdorn has his facts right.
I hope Woosha stays. I can't see any other prospect out there who I would prefer to him.

 

[Keys]

Potential coaching options other than worsfold

Experienced coaches :

Paul Roos
Rodney Eade
Mark Williams
Dean Laidley

Untried assistants :

Peter Sumich
Scott Burns
Adam Simpson
John Blakely
Alan Richardson

Don't think anyone would argue that Roos wasn't an upgrade but he doesnt want to coach or so he says

Since he is seemingly unavailable who from the above list would be better than worsfold or is there someone else I've missed.

What is certain though if worsfold does stay on is that the coaching panel needs rejuvenation - so who goes instead and who do we replace them with/add to the coaching panel

 

[Eagle87]

Potential coaching options other than worsfold

Experienced coaches :

Paul Roos
Rodney Eade
Mark Williams
Dean Laidley

Untried assistants :

Peter Sumich
Scott Burns
Adam Simpson
John Blakely
Alan Richardson

Don't think anyone would argue that Roos wasn't an upgrade but he doesnt want to coach or so he says

Since he is seemingly unavailable who from the above list would be better than worsfold or is there someone else I've missed.

What is certain though if worsfold does stay on is that the coaching panel needs rejuvenation - so who goes instead and who do we replace them with/add to the coaching panel

Mate, there are always other assistants that are highly regarded. Guys that have more experience than Woosh did when we took him on. The first decision is what do we need to do and if our game plan is poor, our personnel are poor and we need substantial corrective surgery than the 12 year incumbent isn't the right bloke, especially when loyalty is his primary trait. We need fresh ideas, fresh blood, from outside our insular somewhat isolated club...

Woosh will represent more of the same. Competitive and not good enough to win big games ....

 

[swannies]

Potential coaching options other than worsfold

Experienced coaches :

Paul Roos
Rodney Eade
Mark Williams
Dean Laidley

Untried assistants :

Peter Sumich
Scott Burns
Adam Simpson
John Blakely
Alan Richardson

Don't think anyone would argue that Roos wasn't an upgrade but he doesnt want to coach or so he says

Since he is seemingly unavailable who from the above list would be better than worsfold or is there someone else I've missed.

What is certain though if worsfold does stay on is that the coaching panel needs rejuvenation - so who goes instead and who do we replace them with/add to the coaching panel

Ratten

 

[reimersworstguy]

I love Woosha and all he's done for this club, but 1 premiership with that midfield was probably below what we should have achieved.

However, it was the worst forward line to ever win a flag. Lynch, Hansen, and Armstrong (who was really a midfielder).

Buy yeah, disappointed if woosha stays.

 

[flamingEMBERS]

Of the experienced coaches I dont mind Eade, Ratten and Roos. You can chuck Clarkson in there as if he's out of contract you can bet your house the Eagles would be making an offer.

 

[Boohemian]

However, it was the worst forward line to ever win a flag. Lynch, Hansen, and Armstrong (who was really a midfielder).

Buy yeah, disappointed if woosha stays.

Took the words out of my mouth. You need the full package to win premierships. We didn't have a forward line, we got to those two grand finals off the back of a solid back line and exceptional midfield. Just imagine if we had the forward line we have today back then?

 

[squashface]

Just imagine if we had the forward line we have today back then?

Multiple premierships and several countries surrendering to us.

 

[Keys]

Mate, there are always other assistants that are highly regarded. Guys that have more experience than Woosh did when we took him on. The first decision is what do we need to do and if our game plan is poor, our personnel are poor and we need substantial corrective surgery than the 12 year incumbent isn't the right bloke, especially when loyalty is his primary trait. We need fresh ideas, fresh blood, from outside our insular somewhat isolated club...

Woosh will represent more of the same. Competitive and not good enough to win big games ....

I'm not arguing with you as I think the time is right for worsfold to move on. Coaches no matter how good become stale at the one club - there's a reason why no one other than sheedy has spent longer at the one club. That said I'm genuinely curious as to who we would look to to take us forward and whether we would look for an experienced coach or someone untried

I'm also adamant that if worsfold does stay he needs new people around him which is one way sheedy was able to keep evolving whilst at the bombers so I'm also interested at who we put a line through

 

[Eagle87]

However, it was the worst forward line to ever win a flag. Lynch, Hansen, and Armstrong (who was really a midfielder).

Buy yeah, disappointed if woosha stays.

Cousins high half forward. Judd & Kerr and various other mids rotating through, Chick had bursts forward... the key position players were only Ok but Lynch did kick 65 that year. The 3 players you mention weren't great and clearly it could have been better but we were getting a lot of goals from mids back then, that plus 65 from FF wasn't terrible ... (For comparison Barry Hall kicked 76 that year)

But normal rules dont apply when you start Cox, Judd, Cousins, Kerr .....

 

[Keys]

Ratten

Well you didn't say Harvey at least

 

[tesseract]

Of the experienced coaches I dont mind Eade, Ratten and Roos. You can chuck Clarkson in there as if he's out of contract you can bet your house the Eagles would be making an offer.

I'd prefer Choco or Laidley than Eade or Ratten.

 

[Eagle87]

I'm not arguing with you as I think the time is right for worsfold to move on. Coaches no matter how good become stale at the one club - there's a reason why no one other than sheedy has spent longer at the one club. That said I'm genuinely curious as to who we would look to to take us forward and whether we would look for an experienced coach or someone untried

I'm also adamant that if worsfold does stay he needs new people around him which is one way sheedy was able to keep evolving whilst at the bombers so I'm also interested at who we put a line through

I just think the one thing one really needs to judge what's out there from a coaching perspective is inside knowledge. A really close knowledge of other clubs coaching structures and roles. Obviously, logic dictates you look at assistants at the more successful clubs of late .... I'm certain however thar the next top line successful coach that we currently don't really know is already on a list somewhere. But just to give you some idea of where things are at, even a McKenna or Smurf would be preferable next year IMO over Woosh and there are no doubt several similarly left field options out there ... We need a fresh set of eyes and a competent coach with fresh ideas ....

Focusing only on what limited names we know, and even most of them are unknown quantities, risks turning the debate into "shit there is no one out there we better stick with what we have" - which is never the right approach because there is always someone waiting for the chance

 

[swannies]

Eagle87 what do you think of McKenna, as a coach?

 

[Forget the Stats]

I love Woosha and all he's done for this club, but 1 premiership with that midfield was probably below what we should have achieved.

We lost one by less than a kick and then won one and then it all turned to shit. Cuz got suspended and sacked and Judd got the groin problem and at the end of 07 we lost them both. That slammed the window shut when we were in full flight so it's hard to blame woosha for that unless we blame him for not managing Cuz etc better.
He's got his faults for sure but is he partly a victim of our poor recruiting particularly with regards to midfield talent. If we had taken Fyfe instead of shepherd or others instead of Weedon and Swift etc etc we may be performing a lot better and not be having this discussion?
I think our main problem is an underperforming and undersized midfield.